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Mysticism Infiltrating the Church(es) ....

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So many people fall prey to the enemy's lies. Jesus desires a relationship with you! That is why He made you! He knew you before you were even born.

I received Jesus into my life at the age of ten, and it has been a journey that has seen me falter in my youth and then return to Him in earnest as a young adult, realizing all too well that I cannot do anything on my own. I need God! I need the power He promises in life. I need His protection, and His blessing. I need His forgiveness and His love. I need these things because I also need to forgive and love and bless others. He lives His life in and through me, and that is what He wants for you, too.

Jesus is as real as anyone! I talk to Him all the time and I listen to Him when He speaks to me. He speaks through the bible when I read it, and He speaks through that inner voice I have come to recognize and love. He has even spoken to me audibly, once, and I cherish that memory. He also speaks to me through His people, and I love His people! He opens doors for us and closes others for our own sake because His love and care for us is so great.

I would love for you to make the choice to receive Jesus into your life. He will come just for the asking, forgive you of all your sins when you repent, and make you clean and right in God's sight! What a wonderful thing to have no sin held against us, and the love and protection and guidance of the God of the universe who thinks we little creatures are worth dying for.

That pretty much sums up my experience with the Lord Jesus Christ. I was lost in sin, wanting desperately to find God. I tried many pathways to happiness, but my life only got worse ... I was in a most horrible state of being, lost, a wandering soul, hopeless, helpless, confused ...

And then I came to my senses briefly, and cried out to God for help, and did what the Bible says we need to do:

Romans 10:9-10 (King James Version)

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
 
And I don't recall seeing TULIP, Trinity, etc, etc, etc. :)

Somebody said the word Mysticism was in the Bible ... Who was that ....

And where is the word Mysticism in the Bible ....

This thread is not about TULIP or the Trinity, although the Trinity is very clearly taught in the Bible .....
 
Not turning this into a debate but Christianity is a religion. That's all I'm going to say about it, in this thread anyway.

OK, as long as you agree that being 'religious' is not what Jesus has in mind for us.
 
Not turning this into a debate but Christianity is a religion. That's all I'm going to say about it, in this thread anyway.

Some people make Christianity a religion, but not me. This is where people get all messed up with religion, thinking that the religious practices will save them, or make them somehow right with God.

This is what the Bible has to say about religion:

James 1:27 (King James Version)

27Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
 
Somebody said the word Mysticism was in the Bible ... Who was that ....
If someone said that, then they are incorrect.

vja4Him said:
And where is the word Mysticism in the Bible ....

This thread is not about TULIP or the Trinity, although the Trinity is very clearly taught in the Bible .....
The point, of course, is that just because a word isn't in the Bible, doesn't mean it isn't biblical or not of God.
 
If someone said that, then they are incorrect.


The point, of course, is that just because a word isn't in the Bible, doesn't mean it isn't biblical or not of God.

Depends on what you are talking about .... Just because something isn't in the Bible, doesn't mean that I have to try it out in order to know if it is good or not ...

Like eating or drinking poison ... I don't need to test that to find out if it's good/safe or not ....

I don't need to try out other religions in order to find if they are true or not.

The Bible is my guide for truth, and the final authority!
 
Depends on what you are talking about .... Just because something isn't in the Bible, doesn't mean that I have to try it out in order to know if it is good or not ...

Like eating or drinking poison ... I don't need to test that to find out if it's good/safe or not ....

I don't need to try out other religions in order to find if they are true or not.

The Bible is my guide for truth, and the final authority!
Right, and no one here is suggesting that anyone try out other religions.
 
vja4him,

I didn't claim that the term itself was in the Bible, but JamesG did make a point similar to the points I made on the first page here and here. The point about how the word was used in times past among Christians is especially relevant for proper context.

God Bless,

~Josh
 
A while ago, I started reading about Mysticism, started trying to make 'that' connection with God, to be one with him, to feel that peace, and I will say this, I would rather struggle and lose everything I have and just follow the Bible and Gods word than feel all the peace in the world and be in the 'zone' so to speak.

Everything I have ever read on teaching like that does one thing, put YOU on a level with God, when the reality is, there is one God and we are not on par, but we should worship and honour him and be in awe of his splender. We should be thankful for the opportunity to know him, and through his Son, Jesus Christ we have been saved. What did the devil want from day one? To be the same as God, to be as one, to be equal to his splender, so I'm not suprised that this type of teaching promotes the exact same thing, to immerse yourself with God until 'oneness' is created.

This isn't a judgemental post and I apologise if I have offended anyone. And let's not think all meditation follows this same path - of course not. Meditation is Biblical, but meditate on Gods word, not some magic that puts you on a pedestal with God.

I speak from experience... live and love other people. Do all you can to live as Christ did, follow his example. Don't be too hung up about yourself, what you can achieve, what you can feel. Put others first and you'll be ok...

God bless. All praise our King, Jesus Christ.
 
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vja4Him

“I don't recall seeing the word "Mysticism" in my Bible ....â€


The English words “mystic†and “mysticism†come from a Greek word anglicized as “musterionâ€, that means “mysteryâ€. If you look up the words “mystery†and “mysteries†in your Strong’s Concordance, you will find every NT use of the word in the KJV. The KJV translates the Greek word consistently. If you use a different translation, the Greek word may be translated differently, sometimes as a phrase. The NIV translates the Greek word as “secrets†in the Gospels, but translates it consistently as mystery everywhere else.

In the NT, the Greek word usually refers to something that we can’t know or is hard to understand, something mysterious. And it also refers to something kept hidden since the beginning of time as a mystery, like the Gospel that we can freely know today. The word is used in relation to relationships only in Ephesians 5:32 referring to the relationship between Christ and the ekklesia, and in Colossians 2:2 referring to the relationship between those who are in Christ and God and the Father and Jesus Christ. The latter relationship being very mysterious and complex. The various ideas of the nature of God, even among Trinitarians, is a clear example of this matter.

In early Christianity, the term was used to refer to our relationship with God and with Jesus Christ through the Spirit of God. Ways of how to accomplish this relationship grew into Traditions in both Orthodoxy and Catholicism. This is what is referred to as “Christian Mysticismâ€. Today the term mysticism has become synonymous with the occult. That is why I said that it is better to use another term that comes from another Greek word used in the NT....Spirituality. But the terms “Christian Mysticism†and “Spirituality†refer to the same relationship. Roman Catholicism preferred the term “Christian Mysticism†until very recently because it is the term used in their Tradition. But they have picked up the term “Spirituality†from its Protestant usage. Orthodoxy is not so fast to make the change. Protestants have generally preferred the term “Spiritualityâ€, because of their dislike of the term mysticism, but some because of its use in Roman Catholic Tradition.

Protestants and Catholics didn’t always get along as well as they do today, that is, a more common acceptance of one another as Christians while acknowledging the obvious differences. Yet the former negative mindset is still quite strong among some fundamentalists, Catholic and Protestant. There are Catholics who do not believe that Protestants are real Christians in the Catholic sense of the word; and there are Protestants who believe that Catholics are not Christians in the Protestant sense of the word. There are going to be some surprised individuals on both sides of the fence when we are all standing before Jesus face to face. Thanks for listening to my rant for today.

JamesG
 
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Essentials & vja4Him

“I hate to break it to you, but Christianity is also a man made tradition, as is every single religion on the planet.â€


I agree with that statement. And this is the first time that I have known of anyone else who agreed with that statement. I have known those who, like the JW’s, make that claim for every other denomination of Christianity other than their own. But not as a blanket statement like this.

Christianity is a man-made religion that claims, as a whole and in its various denominations, to be the true practical expression of, and generally synonymous with, the Body of Christ on the earth today. The claim includes being the true expression of the Greek term that is translated as “Church†in just about every English Bible. Catholics understand its own denomination to be a historical development that began in the first century. Protestants understand their own denominations to be the true expression based on their interpretations of the Bible. I just don’t happen to believe that any of this is a true expression of the Body of Christ or of the Bible. But this is for another thread.

JamesG
 
.

vja4Him

“I don't recall seeing the word "Mysticism" in my Bible ....â€


The English words “mystic†and “mysticism†come from a Greek word anglicized as “musterionâ€, that means “mysteryâ€. If you look up the words “mystery†and “mysteries†in your Strong’s Concordance, you will find every NT use of the word in the KJV. The KJV translates the Greek word consistently. If you use a different translation, the Greek word may be translated differently, sometimes as a phrase. The NIV translates the Greek word as “secrets†in the Gospels, but translates it consistently as mystery everywhere else.

In the NT, the Greek word usually refers to something that we can’t know or is hard to understand, something mysterious. And it also refers to something kept hidden since the beginning of time as a mystery, like the Gospel that we can freely know today. The word is used in relation to relationships only in Ephesians 5:32 referring to the relationship between Christ and the ekklesia, and in Colossians 2:2 referring to the relationship between those who are in Christ and God and the Father and Jesus Christ. The latter relationship being very mysterious and complex. The various ideas of the nature of God, even among Trinitarians, is a clear example of this matter.

In early Christianity, the term was used to refer to our relationship with God and with Jesus Christ through the Spirit of God. Ways of how to accomplish this relationship grew into Traditions in both Orthodoxy and Catholicism. This is what is referred to as “Christian Mysticismâ€. Today the term mysticism has become synonymous with the occult. That is why I said that it is better to use another term that comes from another Greek word used in the NT....Spirituality. But the terms “Christian Mysticism†and “Spirituality†refer to the same relationship. Roman Catholicism preferred the term “Christian Mysticism†until very recently because it is the term used in their Tradition. But they have picked up the term “Spirituality†from its Protestant usage. Orthodoxy is not so fast to make the change. Protestants have generally preferred the term “Spiritualityâ€, because of their dislike of the term mysticism, but some because of its use in Roman Catholic Tradition.

Protestants and Catholics didn’t always get along as well as they do today, that is, a more common acceptance of one another as Christians while acknowledging the obvious differences. Yet the former negative mindset is still quite strong among some fundamentalists, Catholic and Protestant. There are Catholics who do not believe that Protestants are real Christians in the Catholic sense of the word; and there are Protestants who believe that Catholics are not Christians in the Protestant sense of the word. There are going to be some surprised individuals on both sides of the fence when we are all standing before Jesus face to face. Thanks for listening to my rant for today.

JamesG

I'm already well aware that they word mystery in found in the Bible, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the Mysticism that we see which has infected the church(es) with demonic deception.

Rick Warren and his staff are promoting full-blown heresy, when they promote books by writers such as Henri Nouwen!

There are many Christian leaders who are promoting other writers of Mysticism who are also heretics, teaching things that are not biblical.

We must stay in the Word of God (the Bible) daily, be sober, and be vigilant, studying the Word to show thyself approved a good workman of the Lord Jesus Christ.

There is only one way to heaven, and that is through Jesus Christ. The Mystic teachings that there are many pathways to God, and that many religions are an acceptable alternative to Christianity is a lie from the Father of Lies, Satan .... who is the destroying, and would love to cheat people out of the truth, just to see them end up in hell for eternity .....

John 14:6 (King James Version)

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
 
1 Timothy 2:5 (King James Version)

5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
 
.

Essentials & vja4Him

“I hate to break it to you, but Christianity is also a man made tradition, as is every single religion on the planet.â€


I agree with that statement. And this is the first time that I have known of anyone else who agreed with that statement. I have known those who, like the JW’s, make that claim for every other denomination of Christianity other than their own. But not as a blanket statement like this.

Christianity is a man-made religion that claims, as a whole and in its various denominations, to be the true practical expression of, and generally synonymous with, the Body of Christ on the earth today. The claim includes being the true expression of the Greek term that is translated as “Church†in just about every English Bible. Catholics understand its own denomination to be a historical development that began in the first century. Protestants understand their own denominations to be the true expression based on their interpretations of the Bible. I just don’t happen to believe that any of this is a true expression of the Body of Christ or of the Bible. But this is for another thread.

JamesG

Christianity isn't about the church building .... It's about Jesus Christ and the Word of God (the Bible). The truth of the Word of God is what is important. We must test the spirits, and the teaching in light of the Bible, as the final authority ....
 
False teaching has one thing in common, it exalts self, the original lie was that the woman could be a god, all Eve needed was some education so she could find the god within her. Nothing new under the sun, what was taught by satan in the garden of Eden is still being taught today.
 
I'm already well aware that they word mystery in found in the Bible, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the Mysticism that we see which has infected the church(es) with demonic deception.

Rick Warren and his staff are promoting full-blown heresy, when they promote books by writers such as Henri Nouwen!

There are many Christian leaders who are promoting other writers of Mysticism who are also heretics, teaching things that are not biblical.

We must stay in the Word of God (the Bible) daily, be sober, and be vigilant, studying the Word to show thyself approved a good workman of the Lord Jesus Christ.

There is only one way to heaven, and that is through Jesus Christ. The Mystic teachings that there are many pathways to God, and that many religions are an acceptable alternative to Christianity is a lie from the Father of Lies, Satan .... who is the destroying, and would love to cheat people out of the truth, just to see them end up in hell for eternity .....

John 14:6 (King James Version)

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Having read many books and taken a few university level courses on Christian Spirituality, I have yet to read where one author states that there are many pathways to God or that "many religions are an acceptable alternative to Christianity." Not one has stated such things.

That does not mean that such things are not taught in some churches, but neither does it mean that that is what Christian mysticism is. Christian Spirituality properly understood and practiced will bring one closer to God.
 
.

vja4Him

“I'm already well aware that the word mystery is found in the Bible, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the Mysticism that we see which has infected the church(es) with demonic deception.”


The Biblical basis for the descriptive term “Christian Mysticism” is the Greek word that I mentioned. It is thus a descriptive term that emphasizes the mysterious nature of our supernatural relationship with God and Jesus Christ. “Spirituality” is a descriptive term that emphasizes the Spirit of God, together with the Spirit’s connection to our human spirit, as both the conduit between us and our teacher Jesus Christ and the Spiritual nature of our relationship with God and Jesus Christ. The practice of Christian Mysticism or Spirituality, whichever term is preferred, is based on many Biblical passages such as Galatians 2:20 and 2 Peter 1:1-11. And being “Christian” Mysticism, it is diametrically opposed to any other kind of mysticism. Whether related to a “non-Christian” religion or to occultism. And from the perspective of one who is in Christ, mysticism that is not centered in Christ through the Spirit is either man-made or demonic. This does not imply that the practice of Christian Mysticism can’t be misunderstood or abused resulting in corruption. Just as Christianity has misunderstood and abused the Bible, as seen by its denominational nature.

I am not familiar with Rick Warren. But I am familiar with Henri Nouwen. He is a Catholic author who died back in the mid 90’s. Nouwen had a lot of personal problems, and he wrote about how he dealt with them in depth. Presumably, it was therapeutic. So rather than writing about Christian Mysticism from the Catholic perspective, he wrote about his personal Spirituality in light of his personal problems and his Catholic faith. Unless one had some similar problems, what he wrote would be next to meaningless. He was basically sharing his personal experience with God. I understand that his writings have helped many people, Catholic and Protestant alike, over their own personal crises. Nouwen’s writings are categorized as Spiritual writings. Actually they are more along the line of personal testimony. His writings are not intended to be according to Catholic apologetics. But that won’t keep some from considering his writings from a doctrinal perspective and trying to contrast his writings with their own interpretations of the Bible in that light.

I have noticed that since Vatican II (1965), there has been a trend in Roman Catholicism to promote writers that have been influenced by non-Christian religions and the New Age Movement. And many main-line Protestant Churches have followed their lead. This is part of the problem in Christianity today. They are effectively saying that the Bible is insufficient to be the only text in relation to our relationship with Jesus Christ. They look to religions for some new way to this relationship, not knowing that whatever Jesus Christ teaches us will always be through the Bible. Their practical thinking is that God had no purpose in giving us the Bible or that the Bible was given to us by the Church alone, in spite of a contrary teaching by the Church of Rome itself. That purpose is easily seen to the one who is sufficiently to open minded. The Bible is the textbook used by Jesus Christ to teach us today. Jesus as the living word of God uses the Bible as the written word of God to teach us, through the Spirit of God.

Some have made the Tradition of their own denomination an idol so that it effectively replaces the Bible. Some have made the Bible an idol, promoting the Bible from the position of written word of God into the position of the living Word of God. Anyone who thinks in this way must of necessity interpret the Bible because they are no longer listening to the true living Word of God. And they are grieving the Spirit of God in doing so because the conduit can’t be what it is intended to be.

I am willing to acknowledge that we may be talking past one another here. Perhaps if you were to explain a little further regarding what you are referring to as to the mysticism that is of concern. I haven’t been in Evangelical or Fundamentalist Protestant Churches of late. So I am not familiar with the recent trends.

JamesG
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I need to say this:

People need to step back when they attempt to criticize a man of God. Rick Warren is not the man people say he is. He is a truly Godly man with excellent integrity.
 
The scripture tells us who is a false prophet and an apostate.
No one is allowed to twist it or add something to it.
I am in no way surprised that people support false teachers
because firstly Jesus told us that this will happen,secondly
because of reveal the true intentions of them, thirdly because of the
flow of money and fourthly to allow compromises and double-mindedness.
So if people want to support rick warren's doctrine and ties to
a "fourth reich establishment" thats fine but please call yourself a follower of Jesus Christ.
 
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