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coffeeelover said:
Well thank you for letting me know you have the absolute truth. See I don't have such a claim. I am a mere human mortal. I don't pretend I have some special revelation that billions of other people don't have or understand. Hope I can be as smart as you one day.
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CP, again you're not understanding my main point. I don't make Absolute Truths. He does. I'm at the disadvantage, rather I should say have the honor of, following His Truths. My claim of knowing these absolute Truths is by having read and BELIEVING His Word. And actually, I am in good company of billions of people who also humble themselves to His Truths. I read. I pray. I believe. I surrender. I don't decide which one's I agree and don't agree with in order to create a theology that I find comforting to me. :)
 
how can one know what is good or bad if neither are defined?

if culture a has a differing view and from culture b, who then is right? one must be the truth. both cant be right.

when i was into any sin of my choice, i could justify a lot by that line of thinking as no one knows the truth.
 
And more along that line, Jason, you can justify almost anything if you do not take the ENTIRE Bible as Truth. I could nit pick the Bible to say more or less anything.
 
jasoncran said:
how can one know what is good or bad if neither are defined?

if culture a has a differing view and from culture b, who then is right? one must be the truth. both cant be right.

when i was into any sin of my choice, i could justify a lot by that line of thinking as no one knows the truth.
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Even with in the culture of Christianity there are endless variances. Who is anyone to say so and so does not have the real truth. You? I don't pretend to know, and am suspicious of anyone who claims they have the sole belief to get to heaven, and all others will burn.
 
i and others that see it this way take the bible as it says it is. two religions must both be wrong or one right and the other wrong.

you btw are stating that i'm wrong and have taken that place you claim we shouldnt, when you say theres not truth, then is that not a truth to you?
 
jasoncran said:
i and others that see it this way take the bible as it says it is. two religions must both be wrong or one right and the other wrong.

you btw are stating that i'm wrong and have taken that place you claim we shouldnt, when you say theres not truth, then is that not a truth to you?
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Here is what I believe. If someone says that they have Gods divine revelation, and claim to know Gods will better than all others. That their path is the single right path. That their denomination is the only one, and all people who don't believe as they do with suffer for eternity in hell. I know that person doesn't have any special truth what so ever.

Other than that I don't claim to have the ultimate truth.
 
coffeeelover said:
Here is what I believe. If someone says that they have Gods divine revelation, and claim to know Gods will better than all others. That their path is the single right path. That their denomination is the only one, and all people who don't believe as they do with suffer for eternity in hell. I know that person doesn't have any special truth what so ever.

Other than that I don't claim to have the ultimate truth.
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But that's just it! Biblical Christians across denominations generally accept what are deemed to be non-salvation issues. There are extremists who refuse to accept differences, but those are the few. I'm talking "biblical Christianity". You rarely find Christians in one denomination condemning other biblical Christians. Being LCMS, I consider Babtists, Methoidists, Presbyterians equal members of the body of Christ. No one I know (besides a few I've met here) would claim to be the sole holder of the Truth.

Mormons are not... NOT biblical Christians. Rejecting the Divinity of Jesus, theology that says God is not the Author of all Creation but was once like you and me on another planet, and having a sacred book exclusive to themselves, sets them apart from the Body of Christ. As I've said countless times, I will never say they or anyone else is going to hell. One Person will determine that at His moment of choosing. And I'm not Him. I will say they are victims of a cult that Joseph Smith began in the midst of gold-digging. They fell prey to a lie. And I believe they will have to answer for that.

CL, you constantly find fault with Christians who use the Bible as their ultimate authority when it contradicts a belief that you seem to have formulated. We have a Standard by which all claims must be measured against. If you have no foundation with which to test everything, your standard appears to be a moving target, and (I'm just saying it appears that) you have no absolute Truth to be that anchor.

You said earlier you don't claim to have some grand revelation to know the Truth. That appears to be the crux of the matter. I have a Grand Revelation, but it's not my own. It's for everyone who chooses to believe in the Inspired Grand Revelation of God's Word.
 
coffeeelover said:
Here is what I believe. If someone says that they have Gods divine revelation, and claim to know Gods will better than all others. That their path is the single right path. That their denomination is the only one, and all people who don't believe as they do with suffer for eternity in hell. I know that person doesn't have any special truth what so ever.
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Like Mike said, almost every denomination can more or less agree on the key issues that matter (salvation issues). No one I know has a problem with other denominations.

If you are founded in the Bible Truth than you are on the single right path... Does Jesus ever say that there is more than a single "narrow path"? No, there is one and only one narrow path that leads to Heaven. And people do have His divine revelation... the Bible!


Other than that I don't claim to have the ultimate truth.
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Oh, you don't have a Bible? Would you like one?
 
Pard said:
Oh, you don't have a Bible? Would you like one?
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Oh Pard. Apart from just having and reading a Bible. There is how one interprets what they read. There is very little agreement on the correct way. Some think the bible should be read literally kind of like a technical instruction manual. Others think some parts are literal and others figurative. Still others think the bible is wholly fictional literature.

I fall somewhere into the middle. The bible contains obvious myths, but I think it is inspired, so it contains a fundamental truth.
 
coffeeelover said:
Oh Pard. Apart from just having and reading a Bible. There is how one interprets what they read. There is very little agreement on the correct way. Some think the bible should be read literally kind of like a technical instruction manual. Others think some parts are literal and others figurative. Still others think the bible is wholly fictional literature.
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But biblical Christians agree on the theological points that are salvific. The day we should worship, the nature of Holy Communion, tribulation theology does not impact salvation in most every sound Christian. God's Autonomy, Jesus Divinity, the dependence of us sinners on the sacrifice of Christ is. I believe you make too much of non-salvation differences and too little of the salvation ones.

coffeeelover said:
I fall somewhere into the middle. The bible contains obvious myths, but I think it is inspired, so it contains a fundamental truth.
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Can you give examples of obvious "myths" in scripture? :confused:
You believe it is Inspired with myths? Myths are untruths. Do you believe the Holy Spirit would Inspired the penners to write myths? I believe there is "symbolism" included that aren't necessarily literal, such as the 144,000 in Revelation, but not myths! I don't see how you can reconcile it being Inspired while also including myths. You seem to go to great lengths to argue against people who hold scripture true that you have come to believe is not. :confused If I didn't agree with someone on a point, I certainly wouldn't be argumentative in disputing the Word.
 
Mike said:

But biblical Christians agree on the theological points that are salvific. The day we should worship, the nature of Holy Communion, tribulation theology does not impact salvation in most every sound Christian. God's Autonomy, Jesus Divinity, the dependence of us sinners on the sacrifice of Christ is. I believe you make too much of non-salvation differences and too little of the salvation ones.



Can you give examples of obvious "myths" in scripture? :confused:
You believe it is Inspired with myths? Myths are untruths. Do you believe the Holy Spirit would Inspired the penners to write myths? I believe there is "symbolism" included that aren't necessarily literal, such as the 144,000 in Revelation, but not myths! I don't see how you can reconcile it being Inspired while also including myths. You seem to go to great lengths to argue against people who hold scripture true that you have come to believe is not. :confused If I didn't agree with someone on a point, I certainly wouldn't be argumentative in disputing the Word.
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The flood is the easiest myth to point to. There is also the tower of Babel, or the account of creation its self. These are symbolic accounts. They are meant to impart a moral, but not literal accounts of history.
 
coffeeelover said:
The flood is the easiest myth to point to. There is also the tower of Babel, or the account of creation its self. These are symbolic accounts. They are meant to impart a moral, but not literal accounts of history.
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Okay, we've both been guilty of getting this thread off topic. If you're interested in starting a thread on "Myths of the Bible" or something like that, I'd participate. I'll just say you have no legitimate evidence to back up your claim that these are definitely symbolic. There IS evidence of a structure believed to be the Tower of Babel(I could look for it and include it in another thread.), there are enough world class archeologists and historians that believe/give evidence for, the flood and the "new earth" that contradicts old earth archeological evidence. You may dismiss them, but the fact that you outright state unequivocally that these accounts are wrong is disturbing. You don't say "I believe...". You say "They are..."

If there weren't more serious theological points that you continuously hammer Christians on that are CENTRAL to biblical Christianity, I personally wouldn't have an issue with you believing these are symbolic (not myths). However my observation has been if there is a Christian and non-Christian debate going on, you consistently oppose the side of the Christian. So these littler things collectively add up to bigger problems, IMO. Your assertion that the Mormon faith is fine and as legitimate as biblical Christianity is consistent with what I've observed. No surprises there.
 
Mike said:
Okay, we've both been guilty of getting this thread off topic. If you're interested in starting a thread on "Myths of the Bible" or something like that, I'd participate. I'll just say you have no legitimate evidence to back up your claim that these are definitely symbolic. There IS evidence of a structure believed to be the Tower of Babel(I could look for it and include it in another thread.), there are enough world class archeologists and historians that believe/give evidence for, the flood and the "new earth" that contradicts old earth archeological evidence. You may dismiss them, but the fact that you outright state unequivocally that these accounts are wrong is disturbing. You don't say "I believe...". You say "They are..."

If there weren't more serious theological points that you continuously hammer Christians on that are CENTRAL to biblical Christianity, I personally wouldn't have an issue with you believing these are symbolic (not myths). However my observation has been if there is a Christian and non-Christian debate going on, you consistently oppose the side of the Christian. So these littler things collectively add up to bigger problems, IMO. Your assertion that the Mormon faith is fine and as legitimate as biblical Christianity is consistent with what I've observed. No surprises there.
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I would respond that I don't get into the cut and paste deep biblical discussions because I don't think I have anything to add. Apart from those it seems most other discussions are about what seems to be endless new topics that say if you don't believe such and such is literal then you are calling God a liar. I do feel I can participate in those. I don't take the bible as a 100% literal instruction manual or history book so I give my opinion.
 
Mormons know they are different and that they have beliefs not found in the Bible. They have a great desire to be accepted and to appear as ordinary as everyone else although they have some very bizarre beliefs.

I have had mormon missionaries come to my door quite a few times over the years and when I tell them I am a born again Christian and attend the local Baptist church, they usually say something like: "That's great, many christian churches have some truth but we want you to have all of the Truth." This is when they introduce the Book Of Mormon. They give the appearance of accepting you and your faith but the fact is, their founder, Joseph Smith, claimed that all other denominations are an abomination before God.
 
coffeeelover said:
Well thank you for letting me know you have the absolute truth. See I don't have such a claim. I am a mere human mortal. I don't pretend I have some special revelation that billions of other people don't have or understand. Hope I can be as smart as you one day.
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And yet, as all Mormons and anyone who has studied Mormonism or had Mormon missionaries in their home knows, Mormonism was founded on the supposed revelation from God to Joseph Smith that he should not join any church as they were all corrupt. So Mormonism is based on the belief that everyone else is wrong.
 
coffeeelover said:
There is nothing wrong with Mormonism. Every Christian sect has some weird beliefs.
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With Mormonism it isn't about weird beliefs. Its about teaching false doctrines and deceiving people. Its about blaspheming God by denying the Biblical God and Jesus Christ and preaching a different gospel.. Anyone who knows anything about Mormonism clearly can see that they are not true Christians.
 
Mormonism is fundamentally different than Christianity. As Albert Mohler explains:
...the answer is made easy, not only by the structure of Christian orthodoxy (a structure Mormonism denies), but by the central argument of Mormonism itself - that the true faith was restored through Joseph Smith in the nineteenth century in America and that the entire structure of Christian orthodoxy as affirmed by the post-apostolic church is corrupt and false.
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A complete list of differences is here: Are Mormons Christian? - Who Is Jesus?
 
It appears the new Mormon tactic is working because the forum links to their ad. It is at the top of the screen.

m.youtube.com/#/profile?desktop_uri=%2Fmormon&user=mormon&gl=US
 
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