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Bible Study New Testament Israel?

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I have my own thoughts on this question, but I would like to hear a few thoughts from others before I present mine.

Tell me who you believe is represented by "Israel" today (in the New Testament)? What passages lead you to hold this view?
Please, no discussion at first. I want to brainstorm the concept in this thread. I will start another thread in a few days to discuss the ideas presented here.
Thank you.
 
I have my own thoughts on this question, but I would like to hear a few thoughts from others before I present mine.

Tell me who you believe is represented by "Israel" today (in the New Testament)? What passages lead you to hold this view?
Please, no discussion at first. I want to brainstorm the concept in this thread. I will start another thread in a few days to discuss the ideas presented here.
Thank you.
Israel is Israel.

The bible has specific future plans for the nation of Israel.
 
Read Romans Chapter 11, especially vs. 11 as Israel is both Jew and Gentile combined together as heirs to the kingdom of God. There is neither Jew nor Gentile for all who are in Christ and He in them through the Spiritual rebirth are called the sons of God, John 3:5-7; Romans 10:9, 10; Galatians 3:28.

The NT being the new covenant of God's grace through faith that is Christ Jesus is given to all nations and tongues that live throughout the whole world as in Jew and Gentile. Israel is mainly mentioned, but not all of Israel is Gods chosen people. Those who are washed in the blood of the Lamb are joined as a branch with Israel as God is the root of that branch and those who are sealed by His Holy Spirit are His own who find favor in Him, Romans 11:11-31. Therefore, our attention needs to be on those things that are happening in Israel especially Jerusalem as being Gods Holy City.
 
Doug Brents
Might I suggest instead of making two threads on this topic please keep it within this one as we discuss this topic as everyone would have to go back and forth between two threads to understand that which is given in them.

Thank you
 
Cygnus, I would like to hear more about your view here. Please give me reference from Scripture and clarification of your thoughts. Thanks.
There will be a future temple. A 7 year time period..Jacobs trouble...between the rapture and Christ returning on the white horse.
 
There will be a future temple. A 7 year time period..Jacobs trouble...between the rapture and Christ returning on the white horse.
Come on, sir. Please give something of real value here. Scripture reference for your thoughts and please lay out what you are really meaning. This really doesn't tell us much of anything. Thank you.
 
Cygnus Please elaborate on your last comment. I would like to know what Scriptures are the basis for your thoughts there.
I believe this is future....

2 Thes 2: 4 He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

If the anti-Christ sits in the temple of God it appears the Jewish temple will be rebuilt in some fashion.
 
I have my own thoughts on this question, but I would like to hear a few thoughts from others before I present mine.

Tell me who you believe is represented by "Israel" today (in the New Testament)? What passages lead you to hold this view?
Please, no discussion at first. I want to brainstorm the concept in this thread. I will start another thread in a few days to discuss the ideas presented here.
Thank you.
Here are my thoughts.

The New Testament Spiritual Israel are those that worship Christ in Spirit, Faith and Truth
The old Israel is of the flesh and earthly. [note the similarity of Hebrew 12:18-19 and Reve 8:8]

YLT)
Hebrews 12:
18 For ye came not near to the mount touched and scorched with fire, and to blackness, and darkness, and tempest, 19 and a sound of a trumpet, and a voice of sayings, which those having heard did entreat that a word might not be added to them, 20 for they were not bearing that which is commanded, ‘And if a beast may touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or with an arrow shot through,’ 21 and, (so terrible was the sight,) Moses said, ‘I am fearful exceedingly, and trembling.’
Out with the Old:
Revelation 8:8 And the second messenger trumpets, and as it were a great Mountain with fire burning was cast into the sea, and the third of the sea became blood,
This is those of the new Spiritual Israel of God:

22 But, ye came to Mount Zion, and to a city of the living God, to the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of messengers, 23 to the company and assembly of the first-born in heaven enrolled, and to God the judge of all, and to spirits of righteous men made perfect, 24 and to a mediator of a new covenantJesus, and to blood of sprinkling, speaking better things than that of Abel!

Gal 6:16 And those who will [fn]walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

Philippians 3:3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh-
========================
A fairly good commentary on the "Israel of God" for those interested [tho there are many more]


In Galatians 6:16, the apostle Paul refers to the church as "the Israel of God." Why? Why not "the Judah of God," or "the Ephraim of God" or "the Galilee of God?" Why did God not inspire Paul to call the church by Israel's original name, Jacob—"the Jacob of God?" ..........................................

In Titus 3:3, Paul describes the way we were, all of us, including the supplanter Jacob, before we came out of the world: "For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another."

Paul further defines these "works of the flesh" in Galatians 5:19-21.....................................................

...................As members of the God Family—children of God, we will be God, ruling as He would rule. Spiritually speaking, we will be the kings God promised would descend from Jacob (Genesis 35:12). Yes, Israel isan apt designation for God's church; the Israel of God will rule as God.

Viewed in the present tense or in the future, we in the true Israel of God have a great deal in common with our patriarch Jacob. Like him, we will eventually have a new name (Revelation 3:12). Like him, we struggle to overcome. And like him, those who remain faithful among us will someday prevail, qualifying to rule as God—princes forever with Him.
==================================

Pulpit Commentary
Verse 16. - And as many as walk according to this rule (καὶ ὅσοι τῷ κανόνι τούτῳ στοιχήσουσιν); and as many as shall be walking by this rule. ........................................

Peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God (εἰρήνη ἐπ αὐτούς καὶ ἔλεος καὶ ἐπὶ τὸν Ἰσραὴλ τοῦ Θεοῦ). The suppletion of "be" in the Authorized Version, in preference to "shall be" or "is," is borne out by the fact that the language of benediction, both in the greeting at the beginning of the Epistles and in their close, ordinarily omits the copula verb, which in such cases must be what is here supplied.
We may compare in particular Ephesians 6:24, "Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in uncorruptness," not only as similar in construction, requiring the like suppletion of "be," but also as another instance in which the apostle pronounces his pastoral benediction with a certain limitation, specifying those only who sincerely love Jesus Christ. The limitation in these two cases only implied is in 1 Corinthians 16:22 converted into a distinctly expressed anathema upon those who do not love Christ.
The present passage makes the implied limitation without even that measure of stern precision which would have been marked by his writing ἐπὶ τούτους ("upon these") instead of ἐπ αὐτούς ("upon them").............................
=================
 
Last edited:
Here are my thoughts.

The New Testament Spiritual Israel are those that worship Christ in Spirit, Faith and Truth
The old Israel is of the flesh and earthly. [note the similarity of Hebrew 12:18-19 and Reve 8:8]

YLT)
Hebrews 12:
18 For ye came not near to the mount touched and scorched with fire, and to blackness, and darkness, and tempest, 19 and a sound of a trumpet, and a voice of sayings, which those having heard did entreat that a word might not be added to them, 20 for they were not bearing that which is commanded, ‘And if a beast may touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or with an arrow shot through,’ 21 and, (so terrible was the sight,) Moses said, ‘I am fearful exceedingly, and trembling.’
This is those of the new Spiritual Israel of God:

22 But, ye came to Mount Zion, and to a city of the living God, to the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of messengers, 23 to the company and assembly of the first-born in heaven enrolled, and to God the judge of all, and to spirits of righteous men made perfect, 24 and to a mediator of a new covenantJesus, and to blood of sprinkling, speaking better things than that of Abel!

Gal 6:16 And those who will [fn]walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

Philippians 3:3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh-
========================
A fairly good commentary on the "Israel of God" for those interested [tho there are many more]


In Galatians 6:16, the apostle Paul refers to the church as "the Israel of God." Why? Why not "the Judah of God," or "the Ephraim of God" or "the Galilee of God?" Why did God not inspire Paul to call the church by Israel's original name, Jacob—"the Jacob of God?" ..........................................

In Titus 3:3, Paul describes the way we were, all of us, including the supplanter Jacob, before we came out of the world: "For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another."

Paul further defines these "works of the flesh" in Galatians 5:19-21.....................................................

...................As members of the God Family—children of God, we will be God, ruling as He would rule. Spiritually speaking, we will be the kings God promised would descend from Jacob (Genesis 35:12). Yes, Israel isan apt designation for God's church; the Israel of God will rule as God.

Viewed in the present tense or in the future, we in the true Israel of God have a great deal in common with our patriarch Jacob. Like him, we will eventually have a new name (Revelation 3:12). Like him, we struggle to overcome. And like him, those who remain faithful among us will someday prevail, qualifying to rule as God—princes forever with Him.
==================================

Pulpit Commentary
Verse 16. - And as many as walk according to this rule (καὶ ὅσοι τῷ κανόνι τούτῳ στοιχήσουσιν); and as many as shall be walking by this rule. ........................................

Peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God (εἰρήνη ἐπ αὐτούς καὶ ἔλεος καὶ ἐπὶ τὸν Ἰσραὴλ τοῦ Θεοῦ). The suppletion of "be" in the Authorized Version, in preference to "shall be" or "is," is borne out by the fact that the language of benediction, both in the greeting at the beginning of the Epistles and in their close, ordinarily omits the copula verb, which in such cases must be what is here supplied.
We may compare in particular Ephesians 6:24, "Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in uncorruptness," not only as similar in construction, requiring the like suppletion of "be," but also as another instance in which the apostle pronounces his pastoral benediction with a certain limitation, specifying those only who sincerely love Jesus Christ. The limitation in these two cases only implied is in 1 Corinthians 16:22 converted into a distinctly expressed anathema upon those who do not love Christ.
The present passage makes the implied limitation without even that measure of stern precision which would have been marked by his writing ἐπὶ τούτους ("upon these") instead of ἐπ αὐτούς ("upon them").............................
=================

Hebrews 12:18-29 is speaking of a kingdom that cannot be shaken. God is shaking the nations sifting out those who are not His own, but has always saved a remnant out of Israel that will not be shaken in their faith Rev 7:1-8. Actually it is all, Jew and Gentile through faith by God's grace that makes up all of Israel as Gentiles are also of the seed of Abraham being grafted into the branches of Israel as Christ is the vine, John 15:1-17.

Rev 8:8, 9 this is the second of the seven trumpets this angel is sounding during the time of God's great wrath being poured out into the earth before the time of Christ returns. This great mountain burning with fire could be another meteor or even a series of meteors sent down from heaven at one time, but on an extremely larger scale as the third part of the sea is destroyed along with sea life and the third part of the ships that sit in it. The third part of the sea turned to blood by reason of all the ocean life that is killed and those men, women and children who are on these ships that are destroyed. Take into consideration the disease that would spread from all the rotted sea life that is rotting away washing up on the shore and the flesh of those who were burned along with the ships.
 
There will be a future temple. A 7 year time period..Jacobs trouble...between the rapture and Christ returning on the white horse.

From Rev 8:6 with the sounding of the first trumpet to that of Rev 11:15 with the sounding of the seventh trumpet nowhere in scripture does it say it will be for seven years and the catching up of the saints happens immediately after the tribulation of those days when Christ returns on the last day making an end to all abominations here on earth, Matthew 24:29-31, John 5:28, 29; 6:40.

God no longer dwells in a Temple made by hands, Acts 7:48, 49, and this is why God left it desolate all these years when it was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD, Hebrews 9:11-28; 10:1-4. Now the Dome of the Rock sits on the Temple Mount and was built around 692 AD. The Muslims will never give it over to Israel, plus the Dome of the Rock is being refurbished for the son of perdition (not a Muslim man) to come and sit on his throne on the very Temple Mount of God and will cause a great falling away from truth, Isaiah 14:12-14; 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12.
 
Rev 8:8, 9 this is the second of the seven trumpets this angel is sounding during the time of God's great wrath being poured out into the earth before the time of Christ returns. This great mountain burning with fire could be another meteor or even a series of meteors sent down from heaven at one time, but on an extremely larger scale as the third part of the sea is destroyed along with sea life and the third part of the ships that sit in it. The third part of the sea turned to blood by reason of all the ocean life that is killed and those men, women and children who are on these ships that are destroyed. Take into consideration the disease that would spread from all the rotted sea life that is rotting away washing up on the shore and the flesh of those who were burned along with the ships.
According to Josephus, a meteor like as a sword was seen over 1st century Jerusalem.

Now this would be an awesome sight to see today!

This is 2 of 7 events:


Our Lord proceeded, "And fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven." [6] - Josephus has collected the chief of these portents together, and introduces his account by a reflection on the strangeness of that infatuation, which could induce his countrymen to give credit to impostors, and unfounded reports, whilst they disregarded the divine admonitions, confirmed, as he asserts they Were, by the following extraordinary signs :

1. "A meteor, resembling a sword, [7] hung over Jerusalem during one whole year." This could not be a comet, for it was stationary, and was visible for twelve successive months. A sword too, though a fit emblem for destruction, but ill represents a comet.
5. "Soon after the feast of the Passover, in various parts of the country, before the Setting of the sun, chariots and armed men were seen in the air, passing round about Jerusalem. " Neither could this portentous spectacle be occasioned by the aurora borealis, for it occurred before the setting of the sun ; or merely the fancy of a few villagers, gazing at the heavens, for it was seen in various parts of the country.

Such are the prodigies related by Josephus, and which, excepting the first, he places in the Year immediately preceding the Jewish war. Several of them are recorded also by Tacitus. Nevertheless, it ought to be observed, -that they are received by Christian writers cautiously, and with various degrees of credit.
=============================
This passage in Matt 21 is similar to Reve 8:

Which mountain is Jesus referring to?

Matthew 21:21 [Mark 11:23]
Yet Jesus answering said to them, "amen I am saying to ye, if ever ye may be having faith, and no ye may be doubting<1252>, not only the of the fig-tree<4808> ye shall be doing,
but even-ever to this Mountain ye may saying, 'Be being lifted up!<142> and be being cast!<906> into the Sea', it shall be becoming"; [Hebrew 12:18-19 Revelation 8:8]

Mic 7:19 He will again have compassion on us, And will subdue our iniquities.
You will cast all our[fn] sins Into the depths of the sea.

Zephaniah1:
16 A day of trumpet and alarm/shouting on the fortified cities and the lofty towers,
17 "And I bring distress to man and they go as blind-ones, that against Yahweh they sin, and blood of them shall be poured out as soil and intestine of them as dung.
======================
The lofty towers of the walls around 1st century Jerusalem and Herod's Temple as described by Josephus.

This is the sight that greeted Titus when arriving at Jerusalem, 70ad.


Jerusalem was built on two mountains.
Three celebrated walls surrounded the city on every side, except that which was deemed inaccessible, and there it was defended by one wall only. The most ancient of these walls was remarkable for its great strength, and was, moreover, erected on a hanging rock, and fortified by sixty towers. on the middle wall there were fourteen towers only ; but on the third, which was also distinguished by the extraordinary merit of its architecture, there were no less than ninety.
The celebrated tower of Psephinos, before which Titus at first encamped, was erected on this latter wall, and even excelled it in the superior style of its architecture : it was seventy cubits high and had eight angles, each of which commanded most extensive and beautiful prospects. In clear weather, the spectator had from them a view of the Mediterranean sea, of Arabia, and of the whole extent of the Jewish dominions. Besides this there were three other towers of great magnitude......., named Hippocos, Phasael, and Mariamne.............................
===============================
 

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