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[_ Old Earth _] Old Earth Vs. Literal Reading of the Bible.

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John

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A literal reading of the Bible suggests that the Earth is young. But many seem to say that we should not read the Bible literally or it was not written literally, i find that if we don't take the Word as it is Old Earth theology and Evolution sneak in and take place of God's word and undermine God, personally i believe its a smack in the face of the creator to suggest that he did it another way then what he said.

These discussions get a lot of negativity spread around, but i think its a crucial point in the Christian faith and should be addressed.

Here is a chart which shows the Bible dates all laid out straight.

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/VS ... LChart.jpg

* if you want the full version of this chart email me at shizukunai@gmail.com *
*Or if your lucky you can catch me on MSN at yakunan@hotmail.com to discuss*
 
Re: Old Earth and literal reading of the Bible.

I believe that a literallistic reading of the Bible does say that. The mistake, in my opinion, is reading the Bible literallisticaly, because it was not written like that. As I said in another thread: I trust God's word. But literallistic interpretations of it can often lead on to error. Ancient Hebrews did not write history as we do, with an eye to precise facts and figures. They wrote tales which expressed truths they wished to convey. This is not to say that Genesis is a myth or a fable: No, it is truth. But, it was written in the ancient Semitic style, using stories rather than timelines and measurements as we do. To properly read the Bible, one must read it in context, and that context includes the context of the culture of the author and the authors' style of writing. My Church teaches:

CCC 283: The question about the origins of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies which have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms and the appearance of man. These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator, prompting us to give him thanks for all his works and for the understanding and wisdom he gives to scholars and researchers. With Solomon they can say: "It is he who gave me unerring knowledge of what exists, to know the structure of the world and the activity of the elements. . . for wisdom, the fashioner of all things, taught me."

But still, we echo the words of St. Theophilus: "If God had drawn the world from pre-existent matter, what would be so extraordinary in that? A human artisan makes from a given material whatever he wants, while God shows his power by starting from nothing to make all he wants" (St. Theophilus of Antioch, Ad Autolycum II, 4: PG 6,1052).

So we also believe:
CCC 296: We believe that God needs no pre-existent thing or any help in order to create, nor is creation any sort of necessary emanation from the divine substance. God creates freely "out of nothing"

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p4.htm
 
Re: Old Earth and literal reading of the Bible.

Now that we are in the right forum :wink:


I believe that a literallistic reading of the Bible does say that.
Indeed.

The mistake, in my opoinion is reading the Bible literallisticaly, because it was not written like that.

Please elaborate on this a bit more.

As I said in another thread: I trust God's word. But literallistic interpretations of it can often lead on to error.
Any examples?

Ancient Hebrews did not write history as we do, with an eye to precise facts and figures. They wrote tales which expressed truths they wished to convey. This is not to say that Genesis is a myth or a fable: No, it is truth.



But, it was written in the ancient Semitic style, using stories rather than timelines and measurements as we do. To properly read the Bible, one must read it in context, and that context includes the context of the culture of the author and the authors' style of writing. My Church teaches:

It seems to me that if we don't take it literally, not only are we boxing God up, it Creates confusion.

CCC 283: The question about the origins of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies which have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms and the appearance of man.

Again this leads to confusion, when did man get a soul if we all came from a microbe in a mud pit?
What about the fall?

These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator,
To me its a weaker one.



prompting us to give him thanks for all his works and for the understanding and wisdom he gives to scholars and researchers.

You do know that evolution thinking leads to the loss of faith of many people.
With Solomon they can say: "It is he who gave me unerring knowledge of what exists, to know the structure of the world and the activity of the elements. . . for wisdom, the fashioner of all things, taught me."

He must have read Genesis literally :wink:
 
Re: Old Earth and literal reading of the Bible.

johnmuise said:
Catholic Crusader said:
These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator,
To me its a weaker one.
Really? Consider the water molecule: Two parts Hydrogen, one part Oxygen. Science revealed this wonder of God's creation. And now? We can crack that molecule and provide unlimited power with Hydrogen fuel, maybe someday for cars. So as I said, "These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator".

Do not fear science, because all that is true comes from God.
 
Re: Old Earth and literal reading of the Bible.

Catholic Crusader said:
johnmuise said:
[quote="Catholic Crusader":ad08e]These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator,
To me its a weaker one.
Really? Consider the water molecule: Two parts Hydrogen, one part Oxygen. Science revealed this wonder of God's creation. And now? We can crack that molecule and provide unlimited power with Hydrogen fuel, maybe someday for cars. So as I said, "These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator".

Do not fear science, because all that is true comes from God.[/quote:ad08e]

Why could God not create everything is 6 days, and the only evolution (adaptation) would be variations within the already existing creation. this way you would have common ground. Evolution happens but God created everything like he said in Gen 1:1.

Need i remind you that there is no evidence of man from a microbe. all the fossil finds are subject to the imagination of the person, in this case evolutionists who misinterpret the find.
 
Re: Old Earth and literal reading of the Bible.

Those that stand and use this Word of God as the basis for placing the age of the earth at 6000 years, just don't understand the original Hebrew text. It is easy to document that this earth is many millions of years old. However, the traces of Adamic man only can be traced to about that 6000 year period of time. Now lets go the the Scriptures and document some of these statements.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

There are two bodies mentioned in this verse; the heaven and the earth. It simply stated a fact and left the time factor out. The verse not only did not say when, but left it totally to our imagination, as to the eternal span of time, and how the creation took place.

In Proverbs 8:22 we read of wisdom speaking through Solomon. Wisdom is God for all wisdom is of God. "The Lord possessed me in the beginning of His ways, before the works of old." What works of old could this be? It is the old earth age, spoken of in Revelation 12:1-6.

Proverbs 8:23; "I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was." This is stating that wisdom was with God, and He possessed me.

Proverbs 8:24; "When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water." Before there was any need of an abyss, or pit, and the water to fill them, God's wisdom was there.

Proverbs 8:25; "Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:"

Before the earth even took on it's present form, with the high mountains and rolling hills, God's wisdom was there. Friend, God's wisdom played His part in the creation of this earth, and all wisdom comes from God.

Proverbs 8:26; "While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the high part [beginning] of the dust of the world."

God was there in wisdom before that first little atom, or speck of dust of the earth was formed. Before the laws of God that control the energy forces came into being, God's wisdom was there.

Proverbs 8:27; "When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass [circle] upon the face of the depth:"

Proverbs 8:28; "And when established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:"

Proverbs 8:29; "When He gave to the sea His decree, that the waters should not pass His commandment: when He appointed the fountains of the earth:"

In other words, there was land, and oceans, and fields and lakes, and God set His commandment that they should be separated through the "compass" which He set. Today we call it "gravity". This is the force which separates all water from dry land. When the waves hit the rocks of the shoreline, they resend back into the sea by the gravitational forces of the earth.


Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Who is that Spirit of God? He is the Holy Spirit, and it is God's Spirit that moved upon the face of the waters.

In the Hebrew translation of the word, "was", as used in this verse "...the earth was without form,..."; in the original text it reads "became without form...". This same mistranslation of the word "became", and turning it into the word "was" is also present in Genesis 2:7. It should read there; "..and man became a living soul."

The correct Hebrew translation from the Massoretic Hebrew text for the words, "without form" is "tohu-va bohu" in the Hebrew Strong's dictionary. So we see that the earth was not "created without form", but it "became [tohu] without form and void". Lets go to Strong's Hebrew dictionary, reference number 1961 to verify the word "was", that we read in this verse. "Yahah, haw-yaw; a prime root, to exit; to become, or come to pass." [#1961]

Now lets continue in the Strong's Hebrew dictionary to get the true meaning for the word "void". # 2258, on page 36 tells us that we have to go to # 2254 for the prime on the meaning of this word "void". # 2254; "Chabal, khaw-bal; to wind tightly as a rope, to bind, to pervert, destroy, to corrupt, spoil, travail," This corresponds with its other use in # 2255, which reads; "to ruin".

"Tohu" of the earth, then means that total destruction had come to pass upon the earth. The second "was" in the verse is in italics type because there is no verb "to be" in the Hebrew language. One of the problems in translating the Hebrew into English is that the verb, "to be" is not distinguished from the verb, "to become".

At the end of Genesis 1:1 the first earth age ceased to exist in its previous form. God created the earth to be inhabited, and then He destroyed it. There was an entire earth age that existed between verses one and two of Genesis. This first earth age is spoken of in II Peter, Jeremiah, Proverbs, and Jude. We will look into these Scripture passages and try to understand the deeper meaning of our Father's Word.

If you don't understand that there was a first earth age, you will not understand why God would say in Malachi 1:3; "And I hated Esau...". God hated Esau even while he was in his mother's womb. It was in the first earth age that God hated Esau, because of what Esau did in that first earth age. It was what Esau's soul did in that age that so angered God; and that anger passed on to the embryo of Esau, when his soul entered into this earth age. See also Romans 9:13.

This verse, then, does verify the fact that our earth is older than 6,000 years old. To be more exact, it's probably many millions of years old. However, no matter how old this earth is, it is the only place we can live on in the flesh and survive. We do not worship God's creation; we are to worship the creator, our Heavenly Father. God is in control of all of His creation, and He destroyed all forms of life that lived on the earth from the first earth age.

In Isaiah 45:18; "For thus saith the Lord That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the Lord; and there is none else."

This is God speaking as Isaiah is writing it down, and He is telling us that when He created the earth, it was not in vain. "Vain" is the same Hebrew word that we saw in Genesis 1:2, which was given as "void". God created this earth to be lived on, and to be inhabited. Genesis 1:1 told us that God created the earth to be inhabited. The "Tohu", the "destruction", was not part of the creation plan of verse one, but came after the fall of Satan when one third of all the souls followed Satan in the first earth age, in verse two.

We find more documentation concerning the first earth age in II Peter 3. In fact we can read of all three earth ages, as Peter becomes a witness to the fact.

II Peter 3:5; "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:"

The earth came about by "the word of God", God's speech. Some ministers preach that this was Noah's flood, well let's see.

II Peter 3:6; "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"

Perished means total destruction. "The world [age] that then was" ended in total ruin through another flood that was prior to Noah's day. There were no survivors of that flood; no animals, no man, no insects, nor vegetation survived in any form. Everything perished! We know in Noah's flood that two of all life forms were saved.

When you drive out on the highway today, and look at the road cutaways, you can see the layers that the ages and time have formed over the eons of years. You say this earth is 6000 years? Even a child should know better than that.

II Peter 3:7; "But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are dept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is the second heaven and earth age which we are living in now. This earth age will not be destroyed until God's time of judgment on the ungodly men of this earth age comes to a close. that time of perdition [destruction] is after the millennium, and after the judgment. Then will come the consuming fire. Hebrews 12:19 tells us that our God is that consuming fire.

II Peter 3:8; "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

One week is 7000 years, and we are coming to the Sabbath of that week very shortly, which the common name for the next thousand years is "the Millennium age". The Millennium age is the thousand years after Jesus Christ returns to earth at the seventh trumpet to establish his kingdom here on earth. All souls at that time will not be in the flesh bodies, but in another dimension. They will exist in their incorruptible bodies, spoken of in I Corinthians 15:50-54.

II Peter 3:9; "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

That means that you can count on our Heavenly Father concerning His promises. God has much patience concerning His children. It isn't God's will that any soul should perish. God did not even intend for Satan to perish, as stated in Ezekiel 28, but that doesn't mean God will not bring about the perishing of souls; for it is up to the soul to choose. That is what our free will is all about.

II Peter 3:10; "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

"A thief in the night" is an figure of speech meaning that Christ will come at an unexpected time. This sounds like a scary time, but what does it say in in the original text, being translated to English? The "elements" are all the "rudiments"; that is the evil spirits, all evil men are part of those rudiments, as well as all forms of idolatry. They will all burn at their appointed time. These elements are not the elements that go to make up the physical properties of this earth. This is addressed only to those things that offend our Heavenly Father.

So we have witnessed in II Peter 3 that there are three earth ages, and three heaven ages that correspond with the earth age periods of time. We see also in Jeremiah 4 that there is another witness to the fact of these three earth ages.

Jeremiah 4:22; "For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge."

How many people really know God's Word? There are very few that can quote you anything from the Bible, except those parts that can give them personal gain. The translators were kind to use the word "sottish", for the word means just plain "stupid", or "silly". The nature of mankind today is to "make a buck any way that you can". Their minds are evil constantly, as they were in the days of Noah. However, in the ways of goodness, and doing right, there is a void.

Jeremiah 4:23; "I beheld the earth, and, lo it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light."

Here we get back to the same word that we saw earlier in Genesis 1:2; The Hebrew word "Tohu" for "void". In other words, God is saying, "I destroyed the first heaven and earth age." There simply was no life form existing on this earth at the close of the first earth age in any form.

Jeremiah 4:24; "I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly."

This is why the magnetic north is 90 miles off true north? God shook the earth and everything moved from its foundations at the time the destruction "tohu" took place.

Jeremiah 4:25; "I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled."

Did you get that? No man, no animals, and not even the birds were left alive. The earth was covered with water, and life could not exist. There was no boat floating around on the surface, for the span of time could have been for thousands of years, or a much greater time.

Jeremiah 4:26; "I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger."

In this flood there wasn't a tree or a blade of grass left with life in it. However, what about these "cities" that once existed? Yes there were cities at that time, and God's anger and fury against Satan, and the third of God's children that followed Satan, caused God to destroy that entire earth age, and all that was part of it.

That is what God meant in Hebrews 11:7 when He said, "I shook her once and know I'll shake her again." The only thing that will be left standing then, is that which is unshakeable, and it will only be those who have repented, and have Jesus Christ in their heart. They are those souls that were sealed in their minds, and did not bow to the Antichrist, his system, or take his name, nor his number.

Jeremiah 4:27; "For thus hath the Lord said, "The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end."

God allowed the waters of the first earth age to recede, and from it came a condition whereby we can live in this second earth age. Each soul, or God's child, will pass through this flesh earth age once, and we have the choice to chose either light or darkness; Jesus Christ or Satan. When God created each soul and gave it free will, He cannot force that soul to love Him. You cannot buy love, or it will be a false love. God is looking for your tender love; from within your free soul. It is your choice.

So we have documented from the Bible that there was an earth age prior to this earth age we now live in. God created that first earth age in good standing to be inhabited, as it was written in Isaiah 45:18; then after this it became "without form and void" [in the Hebrew, "Tohu va bohu"].

Why? Because Satan brought sin into the world of that first earth age. and that sin was so great that one third of all God's children followed Satan, and that sin brought God's anger upon the whole world. It was then that Satan was sentenced to the death of his soul. This is why Satan is called the "son of perdition" in II Thessalonians 2:3, and John 17:12. Satan refused to repent, as God allowed him the time to get right with Him.

Verse three starts after the first earth age, after the overthrow by Satan [The Chabal], and after the total destruction of the first earth age and all life forms on it

Genesis 1:3 "And God said, "let there be light:" and there was light."

Almost every verse involving this creation story of Genesis one starts with the words; "And God said.". However in the Hebrew text it says; "And the Magnificent Lord God Almighty". The original text gives God the full Spirit movement, and the most respect possible for our Almighty Father God.

This verse is still in the first day when the light came into being.

Genesis 1:4 "And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness."

Genesis 1:5 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

It will be on into another day that the sun, and moon, and stars were created. What does it mean then when God said, "Let there be light"?

When the Holy Spirit of God, the "Ruach" in the Hebrew, moved upon the face of the earth; there is light, for He [the Holy Spirit] is light. Without the Holy Spirit there is total darkness, so the Holy Spirit of God, on the first day started His work.

Within the first chapter of Genesis God reveals His entire plan of God. Verses three through five are NOT dealing with the sun and moon, for they come later. But it is dealing with the presence of the Holy Spirit of God that is to be present throughout this earth age. That "Ruach" or Spirit is the first, and most important part of the creation, for without The Holy Spirit there is only darkness.

This is also the start of God's plan, which includes you and I, and all of God's children. The choice is choosing between the "Light", which is the Spirit of God", and darkness. Ezekiel 28:12-19 declares Satan, "the King of Tyrus", to be that darkness in the world. Then if your choice be darkness, verse 18 declares your destination after judgment: "I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth..."

All prophecies in the entire Bible that refer to God's elect, or the children of God; those that happen to be in God's will, are called "children of light". This also applies to prophecies that are given in days, or solar years. [see Daniel 12:11]

In turn, all prophecies dealing with Satan, his wickedness, and his children are given in months, or moons. Satan's children, then are called the "children of darkness", or "of the night". [see Revelation 13:4, 5] Satan is the darkness that is the negative part of God's plan. Satan was here from the beginning of this earth age, and God allowed it.

Christ was also here, for he is the "Tree of Life". We will read of this later in the second and third chapters of Genesis. When God refers to trees in symbolism, they are persons.

If you rightly divide the Word,there can be no doubt that this earth is not young

study taken from

http://www.theseason.org/genesis/genesis1.htm
 
Re: Old Earth and literal reading of the Bible.

Hey guys...wish both of you the peace to Jesus...... now..to take the bible literally or not.. myself, as I have said in another post somewhere here.. I take the bible as the infallible word of God, literally but with caution to certain word, When Jesus said He is the Door, we know he's not made of wood or has a door knob on Him... that would be silly to think that. the bread of life. the light of the world. the bright and morning star... so on and so on.... Now a lot is being said about the age of the earth and the death on the day he eats of the tree.. God said the day you eat of the tree you will surely die, but Adam live almost a thousand years. how and why, he should have die within 24 hours of eating... Some say he died spiritually "true" also.. but the spirit never dies but is separated form it creator...but it lives on... so what death..When ever you ask someone about death, its not the spirit they think about but the body and I believe here it is taking about the body.. and how long is the time frame... later we are told in the bible that a day is like a thousand years and thousand years but a day to God, why is this in the bible? if it does not have meaning. So either way God did not lie, it's our interpretation of what He meant is the debate.. Then we are told the death entered into the "world" through Adam's sin.... did not say just man..but the world.. like God created the world and all that in it.. so death began, from the sin of adam. did things die before the fall of man... No... because it says death entered into the world..if it enter, then it was not there before. Also it is not said that Adam died spiritually because God shows him how to make atonement for sin, until the time of Christ where Jesus would conquer death once and for all...but people are still dieing did Jesus not get the job done... Yes it is finished He said. it is the same with all men who choose God's way instead of their own... Now, I know this has no bearing on my salvation, because as I've said many time before first and foremost, I believe in Jesus my Savior. Salvation is found in no one else.... also but not pertaining to salvation I am a creationist, I believe in a young earth .. yes there is misunderstood evidence for both...And no one can claim 100% inaccuracy on the age of the earth. Jesus said in the beginning God created them both Adam and Eve..... no where in the bible will you find.. in the beginning God created a single cell and said evolve.. no matter how much you want to believe or try to read it into the bible. Any addition to that is wrong... and you are really grasping for straws..

so that my two cent.................God bless.....................freeway01 8-)
 
Re: Old Earth and literal reading of the Bible.

I agree on the "you shall surely die part" if Adam never sinned do you suppose he would live forever?

By the way "You shall surely die" he lived a long time then...dies :wink:

Surely die does not have to mean instantaneous death.
 
Re: Old Earth and literal reading of the Bible.

first off .... dude long post.. I will be honest.. that long I don't read it all but did get this far before my flashers came on...


If you don't understand that there was a first earth age, you will not understand why God would say in Malachi 1:3; "And I hated Esau...". God hated Esau even while he was in his mother's womb. It was in the first earth age that God hated Esau, because of what Esau did in that first earth age. It was what Esau's soul did in that age that so angered God; and that anger passed on to the embryo of Esau, when his soul entered into this earth age. See also Romans 9:13.

are you talking reincarnation here.. because thats what it sounds like to me.... if so... NO NO NO

for it is appointed man to die once then comes judgment..
 
Re: Old Earth and literal reading of the Bible.

freeway01 on Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:00 pm

first off .... dude long post.. I will be honest.. that long I don't read it all but did get this far before my flashers came on...



If you don't understand that there was a first earth age, you will not understand why God would say in Malachi 1:3; "And I hated Esau...". God hated Esau even while he was in his mother's womb. It was in the first earth age that God hated Esau, because of what Esau did in that first earth age. It was what Esau's soul did in that age that so angered God; and that anger passed on to the embryo of Esau, when his soul entered into this earth age. See also Romans 9:13.


are you talking reincarnation here.. because thats what it sounds like to me.... if so... NO NO NO

for it is appointed man to die once then comes judgment..

Sorry you thought it was long,my apologies,but I did'nt think it was.

No I am not talking reincarnation,no one died in that first age except for the animals ie dinosaurs and such,at that time we were not in flesh bodies,and as a matter of fact we were never meant to be.
 
Re: Old Earth and literal reading of the Bible.

Sorry you thought it was long,my apologies,but I did'nt think it was.
no problem,, my apologies for making that statement ... post away... :-D

No I am not talking reincarnation,no one died in that first age except for the animals ie dinosaurs and such,at that time we were not in flesh bodies,and as a matter of fact we were never meant to be.
now as for this... point out where in the bible there was a pre life.. with no bodies...and never meant to be....

its late and I have to get up early for work tomorrow... out-a- here... will check tomorrow...

God Bless...............................freeway 8-) 8-)
 
Re: Old Earth and literal reading of the Bible.

freeway01 on Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:03 pm

No I am not talking reincarnation,no one died in that first age except for the animals ie dinosaurs and such,at that time we were not in flesh bodies,and as a matter of fact we were never meant to be.

now as for this... point out where in the bible there was a pre life.. with no bodies...and never meant to be....


Job 38
1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

3Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

In verse 7 we are the sons of God,we were with Him when He created the earth,at this time we were not in flesh,it is only because of satan that we are in the flesh now.
 
Re: Old Earth and literal reading of the Bible.

I still fail to see a reason why a literal reading of Genesis is wrong.

If its not meant to be read as it is written, then how are we supposed to take it ?

Are the 6 creation days supposed to be different time periods of millions of years?

No, because he made plants on day 3 and the sun on day 4, tell me how could the plants live without the sun for millions of years.

What about symbolic relationships in nature, plants that require certain animals/insects and animals/insects that require certain plants to live?

What about Noah's great flood? is that all phooey as well? what about the strata layers, why are they different color, how come there is no erosion lines between they different layers, you think if this one layers laid there for millions of years it would rain.

I'll let you guys to answer these first, I've got about 791 questions left (that's right i number them)

And i will post a detailed explanation of my signature:

Fossils. The very name brings to mind images of untold ages past...dinosaurs roaming ancient swamps...slow but steady progression as simple sea life was transformed into today’s complex variety. Is this an accurate reconstruction of the past or is a worldwide flood the correct explanation of the fossil record?
Fossils are the preserved evidence of past life. They are found in every part of the world, including the tops of the highest mountains. They may be as simple as a seashell which has left a permanent impression in sandstone or as grandiose as a giant plesiosaur whose bones have turned to rock after rapid burial. The fossils themselves tell us neither their age nor how they became encased in the rock layers. Rather, they must be interpreted within some view of earth history. Many people have been led to believe that the existence of fossils proves that millions of years have passed. In reality, fossils can form quite rapidly. Heat and pressure from rapid burial can accelerate the fossilization process. Geological conditions following a worldwide flood would have exceeded anything imaginable today and thus led to the rapid fossilization of the plants and animals on a massive scale.
Fossilization can happen rapidly under the right conditions, although it is a rare event today. Yet, there are mass burial sites throughout the world that are tightly packed with millions of fossils. Apparently, billions of organisms were washed together by the mass destruction of the worldwide flood, buried by massive amounts of sediment, and rapidly fossilized. These extensive fossil graveyards would be the predictable result of a worldwide flood, but would hardly fit the slow accumulation model which continues to be taught as the primary explanation of the fossil record. Something dramatically different must have happened in the past to have caused the wide spread fossilization which we find all over our planet. Noah’s flood would have been this event.
Geologists and paleontologists operating from a Christian world view acknowledge the possibility that a worldwide catastrophe buried unimaginable amounts of plants and animals. This was the disaster documented in the first book of the Bible. It lasted over a year and had reverberations lasting for centuries.
Although any order of burial in a flood would be possible, the general tendency would be for sea life to be buried in the lower rock layers and land animals to be buried in higher rock layers corresponding to their ecological niche. This tendency is generally found. Sea creatures would have been buried first because the salinity and temperature of the oceans would have changed during the catastrophe, wiping out massive numbers of these sea creatures. Ninety-five percent of all fossils found are sea creatures. Even after the flood, plant and animal extinction would have been common as many types of creatures failed to adapt to the dramatically changing conditions.
Creation geologists (and there are many of them) believe that the majority of the geological record is a result of geological activity during and subsequent to the year-long, worldwide flood. This flood would have been an incredibly complex event. It must have involved rapidly moving continental plates, changing climatic conditions, and massive volcanism for decades.
Geologists and paleontologists operating from an evolutionary world view acknowledge local catastrophes, but do not allow consideration of a worldwide flood. This would wipe out the “slow change over eons of time†interpretation of the fossils which is needed to continue believing in evolution.
Only one interpretation of the evidence can be correct and only one interpretation of the evidence agrees with what the Bible claims is the history of our planet.


Here we see the flood event explained in a short video. i suggest you watch.

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid= ... iNAw&hl=en
 
Re: Old Earth and literal reading of the Bible.

johnmuise said:
I still fail to see a reason why a literal reading of Genesis is wrong...
For the simple reason that it wasnt written literally. Do you actually believe there was an actual tree, talking snake, and all that? You must read in with an eye to the style of writing of the ancient Semites
johnmuise said:
....If its not meant to be read as it is written, then how are we supposed to take it ?....
You take it as what it is: TRUTH handed on using stories to convey those truths they are meant to convey
 
Re: Old Earth and literal reading of the Bible.

Catholic Crusader said:
johnmuise said:
I still fail to see a reason why a literal reading of Genesis is wrong...
For the simple reason that it wasnt written literally. Do you actually believe there was an actual tree, talking snake, and all that? You must read in with an eye to the style of writing of the ancient Semites
johnmuise said:
....If its not meant to be read as it is written, then how are we supposed to take it ?....
You take it as what it is: TRUTH handed on using stories to convey those truths they are meant to convey

Yes why would i not believe in a talking snake, burning bush, parting of the sea, fire tornadoes, death of the first born, the virgin birth. no no these all must be false. in which case God has no foothold on me.


Also i edited my last post, i suggest you read and watch the video with consideration.
 
Re: Old Earth and literal reading of the Bible.

And another thing, why does the Bible talk about dinosaurs? 8-)
 
Re: Old Earth and literal reading of the Bible.

johnmuise said:
Yes why would i not believe in a talking snake, burning bush, parting of the sea, fire tornadoes, death of the first born, the virgin birth. no no these all must be false. in which case God has no foothold on me......
Well, I don't mean to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I DO believe in the Virgin Birth and so on, but in Genesis, the style of writing is a bit different, just as Revelation is a different style of writing. You don't take all the figurative writing in Revelation literally, do you?

And another thing, why does the Bible talk about dinosaurs?

It does? Well, I don't know. Does that really pertain to our salvation? The key, I think, is: What is the Bible saying that perstains to our salvation. Genesis teaches that God created everything, he created man in his own image, that mankind fell through original sin, and from that point on God set about restoring the relationship between HIM and man. That's the jist of it.
 
Re: Old Earth and literal reading of the Bible.

Catholic Crusader said:
johnmuise said:
Yes why would i not believe in a talking snake, burning bush, parting of the sea, fire tornadoes, death of the first born, the virgin birth. no no these all must be false. in which case God has no foothold on me......
Well, I don't mean to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I DO believe in the Virgin Birth and so on, but in Genesis, the style of writing is a bit different, just as Revelation is a different style of writing. You don't take all the figurative writing in Revelation literally, do you?

Can you put forth a example from revelation?

Did you read my last couple posts? Do you believe there was a global flood?
 
Re: Old Earth and literal reading of the Bible.

johnmuise said:
Can you put forth a example from revelation?
Trumpets blowing, a multi-headed beast, and so on... ...these are images meant to represent other things

johnmuise said:
Did you read my last couple posts? Do you believe there was a global flood?
I'm sure there was a flood. Now, whether Noah collected every animal on earth into a boat, well, I'm open to hearing interpretations of that.

I think the real literal reading begins with Abraham.
 
Re: Old Earth and literal reading of the Bible.

Catholic Crusader said:
johnmuise said:
Can you put forth a example from revelation?
Trumpets blowing, a multi-headed beast, and so on... ...these are images meant to represent other things

johnmuise said:
Did you read my last couple posts? Do you believe there was a global flood?
I'm sure there was a flood. Now, whether Noah collected every animal on earth into a boat, well, I'm open to hearing interpretations of that.

I think the real literal reading begins with Abraham.


It could be literal, but then again its hard to know whats going to happen in the future.

I think you contradict your self, If you Believe in the great flood and Noah but not what the Bible says about the Animals. why would we have animals today? how did they survive the flood, if Noah did not save them.

Did you watch the video?
 

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