Bible Study Paul Versus Judas – God Warned One But Not The Other

[ugmug]

Paul Versus Judas – God Warned One But Not The Other

I find it interesting that Jesus didn't stop, hinder, or warn, Judas of his sin before he betrayed Jesus. But Jesus did warn the other disciples of Judas' intention of betraying him and additionally he eventually warned Paul of his sin when Paul was searching for believers of Jesus in order to persecute them right after Jesus Christ's death and resurrection.

Why did Jesus, who is God become man, stop Paul from his sin but not Judas? We know that Judas was possessed by Satan whereas there is no indication that Paul was possessed by any satanic being.

One has to remember that when God was about to destroy the world in a flood during Noah's time and when God was going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah during Lot's time God warned the one righteous man left, Noah and Lot respectfully, of God's intention to judge mankind.

Notice that in Noah's day mankind was possessed with Satanic beings as all the woman were having sexual relations and offspring with Satanic beings. Equally during Lot's day mankind was possessed with a satanic lust for same gender sex. It is clear that whenever mankind is driven by sin under the influence of a demon and/or Satanic possession that God will not warn them of any judgment by God.

Today, as Christian nations and Christian churches become like Judas and allow themselves to become demon possessed and/or Satan possessed (hint: practicing and/or glorifying the occult of homosexuality), God will warn all those who remain faithful to his righteousness, while not warning any of those who allow themselves to become possessed with Satanic thoughts and desires.

It is clear that when Jesus linked Noah's day with Lot's day together with the final judgment of mankind it indicated that homosexuality is at least a demonic influence if not an outright demon possession. Also notice that God did not command the 'last righteous man left' to thwart or chastise the wickedness of all the other sinful inhabitants. God commanded the 'last righteous man left' to obey his command to flee all the world's immorality (hint: by believing in God's son Jesus Christ who is the one and only messiah).

Jesus Christ said that the last days of mankind will be like the days of Noah and of Lot where Satan will possess all the thoughts and desires of mankind once again. And equally Jesus Christ said that just before the end of mankind (hint: the Great Tribulation), and mankind's final judgment (hint: read the Book of Revelation), Jesus will return for all of his faithful like a 'thief in the night' (hint: the Rapture).

Believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and get baptized, to ensure that you'll be included in the Rapture as one of God's last righteous man left. As a righteous believer in Jesus Christ (hint: refrain from homosexuality and/or practicing the occult) you'll be spared being included in mankind's final judgment and instead you'll have eternal life with God the Father, God the Son Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Spirit in heaven forever.

God Bless

 

[Chopper]

Hello there friend ugmug. Hmm, I wonder how you got that name, ugmug. Did your Wife look at your coffee cup and said, "Ugg, what a dirty mug." Or you grew a beard and your Wife tried to kiss you and said, "What an ugly mug." Or, you brought home a Bull Mastiff dog and your Wife said, "What an ugly mug." Hmm, I wonder if you're married? Boy, what a lot of questions, Ok, I'll stop.

I reading your post, my thoughts went to the fact that Judas' betrayal of Jesus was already prophesied by David. Here's your statement.

Why did Jesus, who is God become man, stop Paul from his sin but not Judas? We know that Judas was possessed by Satan."

Here's what David said.... Psalm 41:9 "Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me."....This is what John Gill says about this verse...."Psalms 41:9....Yea, mine own familiar friend,.... Or, "the man of my peace" (z); who did live peaceably with him, and ought always to have done so; whom he treated as his friend, as the rest of the apostles; calling him to that high office, and ordaining him to it, and qualifying him for it; and whom he called by the name of friend, when he came to betray him; Judas is meant."

So, Judas must have known the Scriptures of David's Psalms. Unless he couldn't read, he was warned. Also take note of this statement of yours, "there is no indication that Paul was possessed by any satanic being."

. Please note this passage of Scripture. 2Corinthians 12:7 "And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure."

Hey, I'm not trying to pick apart your post, that's not my style. As you said, "I find it interesting", so do I!! Here's another thing I find interesting. You said, "

Notice that in Noah's day mankind was possessed with Satanic beings as all the woman were having sexual relations and offspring with Satanic beings. Equally during Lot's day mankind was possessed with a satanic lust for same gender sex. It is clear that whenever mankind is driven by sin under the influence of a demon and/or Satanic possession that God will not warn them of any judgment by God.

You are right. Warning the homo's is my is my responsibility, not God's. Man, I live on a short dead end street. There are five apartment houses, and 11 single family houses. Three of those single family houses are occupied by homosexuals. two by women & one by men. God forbid that any of my neighbors would sell, I sure the word would get out to the Homosexual Community that they could move here....I'm praying for an open door, by the Holy Spirit, for a wedge of witness for me to speak to them of God's Word of the "Good News" of safety from the death sentence that God has issued to all homo's.

Thank you for this thread ugmug, I agree with your statements.

 

[smaller]

Thank you for this thread ugmug, I agree with your statements.

I might not think too fondly of this supposed sight:

in Noah's day mankind was possessed with Satanic beings as all the woman were having sexual relations and offspring with Satanic beings.

Quite off the wall.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I might not think too fondly of this supposed sight:



Quite off the wall.

When I read the OP my mind went, immediately, to Genesis 6:1-4. The difficult part of that account is, "the sons of God and the women of man." That is one tough piece of scripture for the mind to process but the Holy Spirit led me to understand the Sons of God were Jewish Believers and that the women of man were some knock-out, ten, plus, daughters of the gentiles.

In the Nineties I dug into it and the Priests of that were considered to be sons of God. Just my two cents worth.

 

[smaller]

When I read the OP my mind went, immediately, to Genesis 6:1-4. The difficult part of that account is, "the sons of God and the women of man." That is one tough piece of scripture for the mind to process but the Holy Spirit led me to understand the Sons of God were Jewish Believers and that the women of man were some knock-out, ten, plus, daughters of the gentiles.

In the Nineties I dug into it and the Priests of that were considered to be sons of God. Just my two cents worth.

I believe ugmug was referring to pre-diluvian but in pre or ante flood that claim doesn't hold scriptural water. Claims that Satan or devils have sex and hybrid human devil creatures is beyond the claims of scripture.

Satan does have 'children' (John 8:44) but they are in the realm of the unseen. Certainly not devil/hybrid human/devils which teachings come from the serpent seed arena. That teaching today comes from some camps in the fringe arena, Shepherds Chapel the most known. Which I have kind of suspected from ugmug's general postures for quite some time now.

 

[Chopper]

I might not think too fondly of this supposed sight:



Quite off the wall.

Hmm, not if you believe that Genesis 6:1-4 was a real event, of which I personally do, and so did Enoch, and he was quite close to Yehovah his Elohim.

 

[smaller]

Hmm, not if you believe that Genesis 6:1-4 was a real event, of which I personally do, and so did Enoch, and he was quite close to Yehovah his Elohim.

Scripture does NOT present that Satan and/or devils "sexually mate" with humans and have hybrid offspring human/devil children Chopper.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I believe ugmug was referring to pre-diluvian but in pre or ante flood that claim doesn't hold scriptural water. Claims that Satan or devils have sex and hybrid human devil creatures is beyond the claims of scripture.

That was my point but I made with the English Joe Blow uses so as to not be confusing. People are not sure about someone that talks over them.

 

[Chopper]

Scripture does NOT present that Satan and/or devils "sexually mate" with humans and have hybrid offspring human/devil children Chopper.

Demons are able to possess and indwell humans who do not obey Our God. Having indwelt a man, he can have sex with a woman and produce demonic controlled children. Satan's plan was to destroy the race that would produce the Messiah. He almost succeeded....Genesis 6:5 "And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."

Satan didn't take into account....Genesis 6:8 "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD." And God combated Satan's plans with the flood, and with Noah, started a new race of man that would eventually produce the Messiah Who would eventually destroy Satan's plans and send him to the lake of fire....All glory to God.

 

[smaller]

Demons are able to possess and indwell humans who do not obey Our God.

Satan is a spirit of disobedience. Eph. 2:2. Every person has to engage this "resistor" and the "resistance" to God this spirit proposes, internally.

Having indwelt a man, he can have sex with a woman and produce demonic controlled children.

Human procreation is by humans. In every case the participants are sinners and sin is of the devil. 1 John 1:8, 1 John 3:8.

Satan's plan was to destroy the race that would produce the Messiah. He almost succeeded....Genesis 6:5 "And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."

It is unlikely that Satan/devils have any plan but to automatically resist God, His Word, His Ways, just as they were made by God to perform, to tempt, steal, kill, destroy, deceive and twist Gods Words, all executed internally in the mind of their flesh hosts.

In any case of sights the whole lot of them are no match for God whatsoever. Isa. 27:4. A mere snap of His Finger or a few Words could (and eventually will) send them all packing in a nanosecond. Luke 11:20, Matt. 25:41.

Satan didn't take into account....Genesis 6:8 "But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD." And God combated Satan's plans with the flood, and with Noah, started a new race of man that would eventually produce the Messiah Who would eventually destroy Satan's plans and send him to the lake of fire....All glory to God.

Noah's genetic line was no different than people who existed pre flood or who exist today. Acts 17:26.

In any case we are to know no man after the flesh. 2 Cor. 5:16.

In Titus 3:9 we are advised to avoid genealogy questions when engaging Spiritual matters.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Satan is a spirit of disobedience. Eph. 2:2. Every person has to engage this "resistor" and the "resistance" to God this spirit proposes, internally.



Human procreation is by humans. In every case the participants are sinners and sin is of the devil. 1 John 1:8, 1 John 3:8.


It is unlikely that Satan/devils have any plan but to automatically resist God, His Word, His Ways, just as they were made by God to perform, to tempt, steal, kill, destroy, deceive and twist Gods Words, all executed internally in the mind of their flesh hosts.

In any case of sights the whole lot of them are no match for God whatsoever. Isa. 27:4. A mere snap of His Finger or a few Words could (and eventually will) send them all packing in a nanosecond. Luke 11:20, Matt. 25:41.


Noah's genetic line was no different than people who existed pre flood or who exist today. Acts 17:26.

In any case we are to know no man after the flesh. 2 Cor. 5:16.

In Titus 3:9 we are advised to avoid genealogy questions when engaging Spiritual matters.

You know, Chopper and I differ on points of reasoning but, Smaller, you pretty much, just dumped him. None of us know everything, at least I believe that to be true, and there is not a great chasm between the two views.

I raised up a son that is, entirely, to much like me , when I was young. I've noticed other parents trend towards the same result. So if a person, a lost man, is indwelt by a demon or demons, the child he or she raised would find vile behavior would be normal and perhaps good in their opinion.

I remember the Hue, Phu Bai battle of the Marines of 1968, just before I returned to Vietnam. There was a Catholic School in Phu Bai and the VC and NVA thought it a good thing to take the Nuns and the girl students and cut their wombs out before throwing them, dying. into the common grave.

Sick? Yes! All of us thought so but in the United States they were heroes and we were Baby Killers. I cannot honestly find Chopper wrong. I believe I would just address the issues as kindly as I could that I might lean towards disagreeing.

 

[smaller]

You know, Chopper and I differ on points of reasoning but, Smaller, you pretty much, just dumped him. None of us know everything, at least I believe that to be true, and there is not a great chasm between the two views.

I will admit that my red radar alert goes up whenever I hear the "serpent seed" theories being promulgated. And for particular reasons. My Dad was suckered into the Shepherds Chapel nonsense on this subject and I had to 'deprogram' him as well as a couple very close cousins who never did come out of it. I consider cultic captivity to be a serious (and personal in this case) matter.

I raised up a son that is, entirely, to much like me , when I was young. I've noticed other parents trend towards the same result. So if a person, a lost man, is indwelt by a demon or demons, the child he or she raised would find vile behavior would be normal and perhaps good in their opinion.

I think we all should recognize our respective challenges in the "resisting God" arena. Technically speaking we are no better than any other sinners. Romans 3:9, 1 Tim. 1:15.

In keeping with the thread line for example, I would not consider "our sins" to be better than the sins of Judas.

I remember the Hue, Phu Bai battle of the Marines of 1968, just before I returned to Vietnam. There was a Catholic School in Phu Bai and the VC and NVA thought it a good thing to take the Nuns and the girl students and cut their wombs out before throwing them, dying. into the common grave.

Sick? Yes! All of us thought so but in the United States they were heroes and we were Baby Killers. I cannot honestly find Chopper wrong. I believe I would just address the issues as kindly as I could that I might lean towards disagreeing.

I never mean any of my observations to be detrimental to any believer whatsoever. That's not my intention and I sincerely hope it is never so.

 

[Chopper]

Smaller, usually I agree with your teachings. BUT, not this time. Actually, your last post didn't really disagree with my position. As for "serpent seed" I know nothing about this serpent seed. I know that Reba has said that that cannot be discussed, Good, because I don't even like the term.

You said, "

Human procreation is by humans. In every case the participants are sinners and sin is of the devil

You must have missed what I said. A devil can indwell a sinner, it is called "demon possession". I think you know from the Gospels that demon possession is meant to "control" the sinner. Once under the control of a demon, that HUMAN man sinner can and did have sex with the pre-flood women....Genesis 6:2 "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

It is unlikely that Satan/devils have any plan but to automatically resist God, His Word, His Ways, just as they were made by God to perform, to tempt, steal, kill, destroy, deceive and twist Gods Words, all executed internally in the mind of their flesh hosts.

I don't know where you get the idea that Satan doesn't plan to undo what God wants to accomplish.

 

[Jim Parker]

Why did Jesus, who is God become man, stop Paul from his sin but not Judas?

Paul was zealous for God before his Damascus road experience.
Judas was not.
God know what Paul would do when he realized who Jesus is and God know what Judas would do in spite of knowing who Jesus is.
Someone had to betray Jesus; Judas volunteered.

iakov the fool

 

[smaller]

Smaller, usually I agree with your teachings. BUT, not this time. Actually, your last post didn't really disagree with my position. As for "serpent seed" I know nothing about this serpent seed. I know that Reba has said that that cannot be discussed, Good, because I don't even like the term.

The serpent seed posture is that Satan/devils have sexual intercourse with humans and produce hybrid devil/human children, which is pretty much what ugmug threw out.

I was only surprised you "seemed" to agree with it, is all.

I don't know where you get the idea that Satan doesn't plan to undo what God wants to accomplish.

Just pointing out the futility of that effort on Satan's part or the sight that thinks such a thing is even on the radar of possibilities because it's not.

God doesn't "lose."

 

[Tony Hyman]

Paul Versus Judas – God Warned One But Not The Other



Why did Jesus, who is God become man, stop Paul from his sin but not Judas? We know that Judas was possessed by Satan whereas there is no indication that Paul was possessed by any satanic being.



God Bless

I believe the difference lies in their individual "motives" for accepting Christ.In Judas' case he had no intention of accepting Christ for what He was and the purpose of His incarnation , death and resurrection.Judas was what I would consider to be a "mole" or spy in the original 12 discipleship.There is strong support in the fact that Judas' motives were purely political as William Barkley suggests "The Jews always had their dream of power; therefore they had their violent nationalists who were prepared to go to any lengths of murder and violence to drive the Romans from Palestine. These ...were called the sicari , the dagger-bearers...a deliberate policy of assassination.

It may be that Judas was such...looked on Jesus as the divinely sent leader, who, with His miraculous powers, could lead the rebellion...However we look at it , the tragedy of Judas is that he refused to accept Jesus as He was, and tried to make Jesus what he wanted Him to be.It is not Jesus who can be changed by us, but we who must be changed by Jesus."(Barkley.The Gospel of Matthew Vol 2 p 367)

Now if we draw an analogy with any board meeting with the Last Supper we see that Judas did receive ample warning in front of all from Christ regarding Judas been exposed, but yet still maintaining his scumbag role despite "Then Judas, the one who would betray him said,'Surely not I, Rabbi?'Jesus answered , 'Yes it is you.'.(Mt 26:25 N.I.V.).We know that Judas carried on regardless if we look what happened at Gethsemane
"Just as he was speaking, Judas...appeared.With him was a crowd armed with swords and clubs...44.Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them...46 The men seized Jesus and arrested him."(Mk.14:44-46)Judas did not heed Christ's warning.In the same way God never stopped Adam from eating the "forbidden fruit"(Gen.3: 6b) despite the warning to Adam in Gen 2 :17.

Even when Judas tried to buy his way back in after he admits his "sin" (Mt 27:3-4) We find that his repentance is useless because as John Gill teachers us "Here was a confession, and yet no true repentance; for he confessed. but not to the right persons; not to God, nor Christ, but to the chief priests and elders...not seeking Christ for pardon and cleansing...went on adding sin to sin.The same confession was made by a like hardened wretch,"(Exposition of the Entire Bible.)

Saul later Paul is a different matter entirely .Before his conversion in Acts 9 , his motives were no different to many other Jews of his time who saw Christ as a threat to the established OT Covenant.There was nothing "molish" or cloak and dagger about him.He your real tough up front tough guy who carried on as he was always taught to believe, until He realized the hard way when "For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything"(Acts 9:9) he accepted Christ and was forgiven as any other person who repents toward God and serves the Lord as Paul did.He immediately responded to Christ's warning with no strings attached "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?".The difference between the two cases seems quite straight forward .

 

[Chopper]

Hi Tony. Thank you for your very thoughtful and accurate assessment of the OP. I liked how you worded your reply. Very truthful from your heart....I always like your responses. The Holy Spirit likes to use you, so your heart must be in a good place as far as He is concerned. Me too.

Love You.

 

[Tony Hyman]

Thank you for your kind words of encouragement Chopper.These words of Paul spring to mind regarding our sole purpose as children in God's family."Therefore encourage each other..."(I Th.4:18).And as a Brother that you do.

 

[Corn Pop]

When I read the OP my mind went, immediately, to Genesis 6:1-4. The difficult part of that account is, "the sons of God and the women of man." That is one tough piece of scripture for the mind to process but the Holy Spirit led me to understand the Sons of God were Jewish Believers and that the women of man were some knock-out, ten, plus, daughters of the gentiles.

In the Nineties I dug into it and the Priests of that were considered to be sons of God. Just my two cents worth.

I believe along a similar line. Righteous men started mixing with filthy women. It could be just righteous men in general marry crooked women, or the men from righteous tribes stopped marry there righteous women tribal women and started mixing and marrying the women from crooked tribes.

Dunno, I dont think its anything out there like some people go in fairyland thinking humans were literally sleeping with spiritual beings. I think the closest one could get to a spiritual being is someone who is possesed.