Sinthesis
Member
If you'd consider what Jesus did to the moneychangers then you might get a clue as to how much you've missed the mark.
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Pharisees believe in God, but killed Jesus, why they didn't accept God's incarnation?
- Thread starter davidtitor
- Start date
If you'd consider what Jesus did to the moneychangers then you might get a clue as to how much you've missed the mark.
Blake
Member
He wasn't being serious, though. He's satirically lamenting the state of the megachurch.
Roro1972
Member
Sinthesis
Member
Yes, but everyone looking expected God's Anointed to be a fleshly world conquering hero like Cyrus, not a sacrifice for their sins.
Mat 16:21 ¶ From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
Mat 16:22 - Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
Mat 16:23 - But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Mat 16:22 - Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
Mat 16:23 - But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Claiming to have God as his Father was to claim equality with the Father. The claim to be the Son of God is a claim to deity.
Mike S
Member
The same that happened to Jesus when he showed up to the Grand Inquisitor in "The Brothers Karamazov." He'd be put to death again.
th1b.taylor
Member
Luke 23:34, in context applies to the soldiers, no9t the Jews and the head of the Temple knew. He went so far as to say it is profitable that one should die for the many. He knew!
Douglas Summers
Member
Hi david, When The Christ began preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, after being tempted by Satin. (Matthew chapter 4), He was fulfilling the prophecy of the Davidic Covenant (2 Samuel 7: 4-13) and ( Psalms 89: 20-37). This covenant is perpetual (can not be annulled). What Christ was preaching was that Kingdom. This is about establishing the Kingdom of Israel under the son of David (of whom Christ is). This was about Israel only. Not the Church nor the Gentile, for He came only to the lost sheep of Israel. This is what is called the Gospel of the Kingdom. The 3 Gospels and book of John are about Israel and Their Messiah. It is not Church doctrine. The Church is only mentioned as a future work of the Lord. (Matt. 16: 13-20) Your question was, "did they know who the Christ was?
In John 1: 11 It says, "Christ came unto His own, but His own received Him not." His own in this passage means the religious leader of Israel who taught the people of Israel The book of Moses ,the prophets and the Psalms (Luke 24: 25-27) , These religious leaders knew the signs of the prophets that pointed to the Christ and even the prophet who lead the way for the path of Christ.(John The Baptist), But, at every turn and miracle of Christ that they witnessed, they refused to acknowledge Him. For if they did, they would have to give up their high hippocriticle positions over the people. They loved the praise of men more than the praises of God . It is not that they did not know, it is that they would not admit it. (John 12: 37-44) Many of the religious leaders believed who He was, but would not put their faith in Him. (John 2: 13-3:2) Christ says about that, ,"that those who deny me before men, I will deny before my Father. The Parables of "The Householder" in Matt. 21: 33-40 is of all the prophets and messengers of God that were sent to Israel through the ages in whom they beat and killed, and when He sent His Son, They killed Him also so they could rule the Kingdom. Study these Scriptures with prayer. They will open your eyes..
Jim Parker
Member
No. The idea that He might actually be God never occurred to them.
They thought Jesus was another rabble-rousing preacher who might start an uprising against the Romans. The Romans allowed them to keep their positions to keep a lid on such things. If Jesus started a revolt on their watch they could lose their jobs.
They also were jealous of Him because of the following he had and His habit of showing them to be hypocrites.
Jesus was a pain in the neck of the establishment and a danger to their incomes.
So they decided to get rid of Him.
Iakov the fool
J
jocor
Guest
I believe Yeshua was asking forgiveness for everyone that had a part in his death as the context from verses 28-34 suggest.
What did the high priest know? All he knew was that one man should die for the nation. It doesn't say he knew Yeshua was God's Son or the Messiah.
th1b.taylor
Member
You can't get way that easy, you must explain what the words of an extreme Bible scholar means then and that is what he was.
J
jocor
Guest
I have no idea what you mean. Who is the "extreme Bible scholar"? Yeshua, the high priest, someone else? If you are referring to Yeshua, then I already gave what I believe to be his meaning.
Roro1972
Member
Luke 22
66 And as soon as it was day, the elders of the people and the chief priests and the scribes came together, and led him into their council, saying,
67 Art thou the Christ? tell us. And he said unto them, If I tell you, ye will not believe:
68 And if I also ask you, ye will not answer me, nor let me go.
69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.
71 And they said, What need we any further witness? for we ourselves have heard of his own mouth.
sounds like they knew more than some think
66 And as soon as it was day, the elders of the people and the chief priests and the scribes came together, and led him into their council, saying,
67 Art thou the Christ? tell us. And he said unto them, If I tell you, ye will not believe:
68 And if I also ask you, ye will not answer me, nor let me go.
69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.
71 And they said, What need we any further witness? for we ourselves have heard of his own mouth.
sounds like they knew more than some think
Douglas Summers
Member
They would say as they do today. There is nothing wrong with having money, it is the love of money that is the root of all evil. This is usually what the well to do say. and they say it, being rich as though they don't love money to justify themselves because they are rich.
Actually they would not invite Him in, He would be left outside the door knocking, asking if He could come in, for they would not recognize Him.
th1b.taylor
Member
The High Priests and people like Paul but I said the High Priest knew and you appear to have taken issue.
J
jocor
Guest
I wasn't taking issue. I was trying to figure out why you mentioned the high priest's in relation to Luke 23:34. Please explain.
Sinthesis
Member
I imagine that he knew Jesus, son of David, was the Messiah, after all they had access to the genealogies, but he didn't know what that meant. Since no one could fully accept Jesus was God before the resurrection, it follows that he believed a mere human messiah leading a Jewish revolt against Rome was futile. Thus it would be better to crucify Jesus than invite the kind of apocalypse Judaism experienced in 70AD.
smaller
Member
The pharisee's were meant to show us that the hearts of sincerely religious people can be the coldest hardest wickedest hearts there are on the planet.
And from that, we might observe the even larger questions, the sights and rebukes of Jesus upon them and ask ourselves in the process,
WHY?
The Word of God in Christ answers the larger questions, OPENLY. Yet in the halls of Judaism and Christianity to this day we'll still never hear the truth of this matter, ever, from blinded religious leaders nor will it be accepted in the pews.
God's Words can not come forth in truth and in honesty, from their hearts or their mouths by Divine Design. It can not be done. They could not "hear" or "perceive" or "see" then and it is not one bit different today.
Matthew 23:25
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Matthew 23:27
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Matthew 23:28
Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
IF we don't want to be pharisee's, hypocrites. If we don't want to hear what Jesus had to say to these men, ourselves, then we are no different than they were.
Religious people simply can not hear the facts of these matters. It is impossible for them to hear. They will not hear. They will refuse to hear. They can not see. They will refuse to see.
And even here, when these Words of Jesus are brought forth, these Words of God in Christ will be resisted, they will not be heard or seen, guaranteed by God Himself.
There is not a religious person alive who's own flesh will not rise to resist Gods Factual Word Disclosures above. The flesh will not and can not hear or see. It is contrary to the Spirit and will resist God's Disclosures every single last time and will do so repeatedly, over and over again and again, til it DIES.
I do not expect any other outcome. It will be as God has said.
This is the meal of God in Christ that must be force fed, by those in the Spirit, to our own flesh:
-are full of extortion and excess
-are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
-within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
The facts of God are as clear as a ringing bell. Evil comes from within. We are all made up inside, beyond any and all doubt, of good and evil.
The evil will never hear. Never see. Never submit to this fact. It can not be done because it's EVIL.
God calls us to Himself, even commanding us to His Threshold, with a WHOLE HEART.
And in that heart, is good and evil.
There is no hiding the obvious, except by the evil, in man.
When Jesus disclosed to His Disciples, that He would be betrayed by 'one' of them, every man of them said "is it ME?" "Is is ME?" Every one of those men did not hear.
The evil in the heart of all men will DENY Jesus every time, down to the last man, and will refuse to see the evil in our own hearts and will say, "is it ME?" "is is ME?"
Yeah, it's you. It's me. It's all.
What's really odd is that the most common sense matter that can be perceived by everyone, believer or unbeliever, goes continually unattended.
Only a liar says in his heart, that "I do not have evil thoughts" therein.
No liar will be allowed past Heaven's Gate.
The very things we work so HARD to try to avoid having, yet have regardless, is extremely deceptive.
Paul laid down his own life as an Apostle, a SPEAKER of GOD'S TRUTH, on the bed of brutal personal honesty.
Romans 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Any person who can not hear this and admit it to themselves and others, has no place in Christ. They are in fact openly proven liars, by denial of the most obvious thing on earth that everyone knows, but can not say.
We can all put on our phony religious Pharisee cloth now and pretend it isn't so.
Do you know that the meaning of HYPOCRITE is ACTOR?
Do you know that actors are actually professional liars, professional pretenders, by trade?
Do you wonder why the world of flesh ADORES actors and sets them on the highest rung of society? And puts them on the BIG SCREEN and behind the podiums of all governments.
The flesh world worships PROFESSIONAL LIARS.
The flesh world chases after this standard. Gives them money, adores their lies and pretending. Heaps their attentions upon them. GIVES THESE LIARS AND PRETENDERS THEIR ALL.
Look at the world around you, and see AND hear, the message that GOD IS GIVING and has set before our own eyes to see.
Is it me? Don't make me laugh.
And from that, we might observe the even larger questions, the sights and rebukes of Jesus upon them and ask ourselves in the process,
WHY?
The Word of God in Christ answers the larger questions, OPENLY. Yet in the halls of Judaism and Christianity to this day we'll still never hear the truth of this matter, ever, from blinded religious leaders nor will it be accepted in the pews.
God's Words can not come forth in truth and in honesty, from their hearts or their mouths by Divine Design. It can not be done. They could not "hear" or "perceive" or "see" then and it is not one bit different today.
Matthew 23:25
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Matthew 23:27
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Matthew 23:28
Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
IF we don't want to be pharisee's, hypocrites. If we don't want to hear what Jesus had to say to these men, ourselves, then we are no different than they were.
Religious people simply can not hear the facts of these matters. It is impossible for them to hear. They will not hear. They will refuse to hear. They can not see. They will refuse to see.
And even here, when these Words of Jesus are brought forth, these Words of God in Christ will be resisted, they will not be heard or seen, guaranteed by God Himself.
There is not a religious person alive who's own flesh will not rise to resist Gods Factual Word Disclosures above. The flesh will not and can not hear or see. It is contrary to the Spirit and will resist God's Disclosures every single last time and will do so repeatedly, over and over again and again, til it DIES.
I do not expect any other outcome. It will be as God has said.
This is the meal of God in Christ that must be force fed, by those in the Spirit, to our own flesh:
-are full of extortion and excess
-are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
-within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
The facts of God are as clear as a ringing bell. Evil comes from within. We are all made up inside, beyond any and all doubt, of good and evil.
The evil will never hear. Never see. Never submit to this fact. It can not be done because it's EVIL.
God calls us to Himself, even commanding us to His Threshold, with a WHOLE HEART.
And in that heart, is good and evil.
There is no hiding the obvious, except by the evil, in man.
When Jesus disclosed to His Disciples, that He would be betrayed by 'one' of them, every man of them said "is it ME?" "Is is ME?" Every one of those men did not hear.
The evil in the heart of all men will DENY Jesus every time, down to the last man, and will refuse to see the evil in our own hearts and will say, "is it ME?" "is is ME?"
Yeah, it's you. It's me. It's all.
What's really odd is that the most common sense matter that can be perceived by everyone, believer or unbeliever, goes continually unattended.
Only a liar says in his heart, that "I do not have evil thoughts" therein.
No liar will be allowed past Heaven's Gate.
The very things we work so HARD to try to avoid having, yet have regardless, is extremely deceptive.
Paul laid down his own life as an Apostle, a SPEAKER of GOD'S TRUTH, on the bed of brutal personal honesty.
Romans 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Any person who can not hear this and admit it to themselves and others, has no place in Christ. They are in fact openly proven liars, by denial of the most obvious thing on earth that everyone knows, but can not say.
We can all put on our phony religious Pharisee cloth now and pretend it isn't so.
Do you know that the meaning of HYPOCRITE is ACTOR?
Do you know that actors are actually professional liars, professional pretenders, by trade?
Do you wonder why the world of flesh ADORES actors and sets them on the highest rung of society? And puts them on the BIG SCREEN and behind the podiums of all governments.
The flesh world worships PROFESSIONAL LIARS.
The flesh world chases after this standard. Gives them money, adores their lies and pretending. Heaps their attentions upon them. GIVES THESE LIARS AND PRETENDERS THEIR ALL.
Look at the world around you, and see AND hear, the message that GOD IS GIVING and has set before our own eyes to see.
Is it me? Don't make me laugh.