Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Bible Study Please help with my bible study question
- Thread starter armadillo
- Start date
netchaplain
Member
Hi Armadillo and God's blessings to you and your family!
The still indwelling Adamic nature of the Christian can sometimes be misunderstood as being "pruned" but this sinful nature isn't under an improvement program but is a condemned nature (Rom 8:3); "Because the carnal mind (old nature) is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be" (Rom 8:7).
The Holy Spirit applies the Cross of Christ "daily" (Luk 9:23) to our still present (Rom 7:17, 20) sin-nature so we may "yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead" (Rom 6:13). We yield our new nature (Eph 4:24; Col 3:10) to God, not the old nature.
The still indwelling Adamic nature of the Christian can sometimes be misunderstood as being "pruned" but this sinful nature isn't under an improvement program but is a condemned nature (Rom 8:3); "Because the carnal mind (old nature) is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be" (Rom 8:7).
The Holy Spirit applies the Cross of Christ "daily" (Luk 9:23) to our still present (Rom 7:17, 20) sin-nature so we may "yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead" (Rom 6:13). We yield our new nature (Eph 4:24; Col 3:10) to God, not the old nature.
former atheist
Member
Also to consider or ponder is Romans: 8: 28-30. God predetermined that those who love him and would come back into his purpose, he would have conform to the image of His Son.
In my opinion, in our path to be more Christ like, we are not pruning (cutting or lopping off) our sinful nature, but rather we are putting on a new nature, the nature of God in us. The sinful nature is replaced by the working of the Holy Spirit in us.
Too Often I feel we, as Christians, will place our focus in trying to rid ourselves of our Sinful tendencies; when in fact, if we simply focused on conforming too or allowing the nature of Christ to work in us, the sin problem would go away.
In my opinion, in our path to be more Christ like, we are not pruning (cutting or lopping off) our sinful nature, but rather we are putting on a new nature, the nature of God in us. The sinful nature is replaced by the working of the Holy Spirit in us.
Too Often I feel we, as Christians, will place our focus in trying to rid ourselves of our Sinful tendencies; when in fact, if we simply focused on conforming too or allowing the nature of Christ to work in us, the sin problem would go away.
netchaplain
Member
I like what former atheist said but the sin problem isn't having sin, which will remain in us in this life, it's what we do about it.
former atheist
Member
If by “what we do about it” you mean by the word “we”, God in us, then I have to fully and completely agree. However, I don’t’ believe we, individually, have a hope to tackle our sinful nature without the work of God in us; and what We (Christ and self) do about it, is very important.
netchaplain
Member
Yes, I agree that it's the Holy Spirit's work to address our still abiding sinful nature!!
"For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would" (Gal 5:17).
Former Atheist, my post today in the None But The Hungry Heart Anthology thread (Bible Study category) addresses what we're sharing here and would like your correspondence of it, if you would. Thanks and God be blessed!
"For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would" (Gal 5:17).
Former Atheist, my post today in the None But The Hungry Heart Anthology thread (Bible Study category) addresses what we're sharing here and would like your correspondence of it, if you would. Thanks and God be blessed!
Jethro Bodine
Member
Jesus addresses the point very specifically in John 15.
"15 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me (Jesus) that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful." (John 15:15 NIV1984)
It's clear that branches that don't have fruit on them and don't belong in the vine (Jesus) are removed from the vine. But it is those branches that do belong to the vine--as evidenced by the fact that they are drawing on the life of the vine and bearing fruit--that are cut back, not removed.
The question is, "what is the nature of this 'cutting back' of the branch that legitimately belongs to the vine and is bearing fruit?" Is it the removal of sin? Or is it a purposeful limiting of fruit bearing (through suffering and lack) in the hope of a later greater harvest?
I'm not an expert in growing fruit vines, but I think it's clear that 'pruning' involves the removal of legitimate growth, not necessarily just the removal of dead parts. That's kind of hard to accept when we see our potential for immediate fruitfulness being limited by God himself by adversity. But we know from this passage it is done in the interest of a later greater and fuller harvest of righteousness (fruit).
It seems the pruning in the good branches isn't so much a matter of the removal of dead parts as it is the maintenance of what is already growing and even thriving...but cut out in the interest of the branch achieving it's highest potential.
Danus
Member
I don't think I've ever seen this subject matter so well worded and straight to the point.
I like it!
E
Elijah674
Guest
Note first Rom. 8:1 condition to be IN Christ & then see verse 14 that the Holy Spirit will LEAD these ones!
OK: Just to make sure that we understand what to expect there on, we can read Heb. 12
[2] Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
[3] For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
[4] Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
[5] And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
[6] [[For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.]]
[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[8] But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
(and the Holy Spirit does LEAD all of US, huh? now comes our maturing part. How can 'i' control or be without chastisments?? The new babe IN CHRIST could be over weight? And I know that is the case lets just say? Now, bringing my 'body into subjection that 'I will not become a castaway' (as Paul stated 1 Cor. 9:27) just might be a very hard task for me! Yet, what will I do about it? Phil. 4:13.
For us to just set still and not mature is a hard thing in itself to do when the Holy Spirit is Leading us. And yet, the more we grow the more we are responsible because of our love for the Master to do. Both the easy thing as well as the harder ones.
--Elijah
I assume you are talking about John 15:1-4?
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
It seems clear that God does the pruning. We need to be receptive and aware of what He is doing in our lives, and take our sustenance from Jesus.