Pope Francis ok with Same Sex Unions?

[reddogs]

This cant be right, there must be some misunderstanding, or has the Pope really done this?

"Pope suggests blessings for same-sex unions may be possible

VATICAN CITY — Pope Francis has suggested there could be ways to bless same-sex unions, responding to five conservative cardinals who challenged him to affirm church teaching on homosexuality ahead of a big meeting where LGBTQ+ Catholics are on the agenda.

The Vatican on Monday published a letter Francis wrote to the cardinals on July 11 after receiving a list of five questions, or "dubia," from them a day earlier. In it, Francis suggests that such blessings could be studied if they didn't confuse the blessing with sacramental marriage.

New Ways Ministry, which advocates for LGBTQ+ Catholics, said the letter "significantly advances" efforts to make LGBTQ+ Catholics welcomed in the church and "one big straw towards breaking the camel's back" in their marginalization."

https://www.npr.org/2023/10/03/1203170334/pope-suggests-blessings-for-same-sex-unions-may-be-possible

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/02/world/francis-same-sex-unions-intl-latam/index.html

The pope just opened the door to blessing same-sex couples. This nun secretly blessed one more than 15 years ago.

As Pope Francis suggests the Church may bless LGBTQ Catholics' relationships, Sister Anna Koop talks about privately blessing a friend and her partner.

www.cbsnews.com

Pope Francis signals openness to blessings for same-sex couples

Francis was responding to five conservative cardinals who asked for clarity on the issue before a major global gathering on the future of the Catholic Church begins Wednesday.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[GodsGrace]

I think they have universal healthcare. I don't know if they expect less. As an American, I don't feel I'm entitled to things. I rarely but anything for myself and save my money. You never know when the rug will be pulled out from under you, only that it will be at some point.

Italy has universal healthcare.
Personally, I don't think it's the best.
Whenever something is for everyone, the quality diminishes.
It just doesn't seem to work. The wealthy get quick private care, and those that can't afford it
get sicker waiting for a specialist.
The family doctor, GP, works great. I could see mine the same day and they know each family because I live in a small place. This is nice.
But it must be more than this in regards to Norway.

Maybe. I would like to think so at least. But sometimes I think we are the physical and nothing more. Depends on the day I suppose.

LOL
You could keep thinking about these things.
Do you think it's possible to come to believe in God totally through intelligence,
or do you think some kind of experience is necessary?

Consciousness is a mystery to science. A deep mystery. It's like, how does electricity in the brain produce consciousness? It seems like an impossibility. We certainly can't replicate it.

Yes! A mystery. I have a feeling science will never know.
I believe in this thing called a soul, so I have no problem.
Christians are lucky. If they don't understand something,
they just give it up to God!
No, really, I do believe He created everything, even the soul.

Hmm... I suppose it depends on the severity of the contraction.

I agree. But if the bible doesn't agree with itself, a problem would arise.
I'd never trust it again. I'm talking about the NT.

 

[GodsGrace]

Who would even want their backhanded blessings? I'd feel like I'd need ten showers afterwards.

How come Riven?
What did the CC do to you?

 

[GodsGrace]

The weather. Lol.

You funny.

Fair enough. It's a good question to ask, why would they die for a lie? Maybe because they thought it was the truth? Many Muslims are willing to die for whay they believe. It isn't so uncommon.

OK
But it's their choice based on what they were taught from childhood in the majority of cases.

The Apostles did not choose to die - and torturous deaths they were.
And yet they never backed down.

Of course, if everybody accepted this, everybody would be Christian.
So I guess it's not enough for some.

What about Christians that fall back into a sinful lifestyle and die without repenting? Or is it a one time deal and your saved?

Unfortunately, it's not a one time deal.
God cannot live with sin....so we have to obey God until death.
Some believe in once saved always saved, but Jesus did not teach this nor did the writers of the NT:
It's very debated, as I'm sure you've noticed.
I must also say that the Apostolic Fathers and the Early Church Fathers did not believe in OSAS.
These are the persons that were taught by the Apostles themselves.
I have faith in them to.
If something is debatable, they're my default source.

It seems many relish in God's judgment of others. They worship his wrath and secretly wish it on others not realizing that they only successfully in bringing it on themselves.

I agree. Very unchristianly.

They dont make them like you anymore, wondering . I would like to get married one day and have a lifelong marriage with a woman that takes the oath seriously. It's so hard for me to trust though. That affects how I view faith as well. How do you have faith without trust? Seems impossible.

You're right. Faith and trust go hand in hand.
The only way to trust anyone is to have faith in them,
and V V...if you have faith in them you will also trust them.
I hope you get your dream Riven.
Look for a serious girl and you'll find a serious girl.
My son used to say what you just said above.
Now he's married with 3 children.
When he got serious about it...

I agree. The gay people that I've met in my travels were always nice to me. The Christian reaction to it is just... over the top I think. But see, even that can be an issue if you take a more relaxed view of it because, what if you're wrong? There you are standing before your maker and he says well, you didn't preach or follow the gospel as it is written. Depart from me, I never knew you. Do you think that sort of thing happens?

This is a difficult topic for me.
The bible is very implicit in what it states.
I think everyone should be respected and treated well.
I remember when homosexual persons used to get beat up (I lived in NYC).
This is unacceptable.
But we also can't change laws to accommodate 3% of the population. (approx.)
Also, I don't know how someone can go a lifetime with no affection and intimacy with another human.
Some Christians are too fundamentalist, too hard-hearted....but they are right theologically-wise.
So what to do? I don't know.

 

[jasonc]

You funny.


OK
But it's their choice based on what they were taught from childhood in the majority of cases.

The Apostles did not choose to die - and torturous deaths they were.
And yet they never backed down.

Of course, if everybody accepted this, everybody would be Christian.
So I guess it's not enough for some.


Unfortunately, it's not a one time deal.
God cannot live with sin....so we have to obey God until death.
Some believe in once saved always saved, but Jesus did not teach this nor did the writers of the NT:
It's very debated, as I'm sure you've noticed.
I must also say that the Apostolic Fathers and the Early Church Fathers did not believe in OSAS.
These are the persons that were taught by the Apostles themselves.
I have faith in them to.
If something is debatable, they're my default source.


I agree. Very unchristianly.


You're right. Faith and trust go hand in hand.
The only way to trust anyone is to have faith in them,
and V V...if you have faith in them you will also trust them.
I hope you get your dream Riven.
Look for a serious girl and you'll find a serious girl.
My son used to say what you just said above.
Now he's married with 3 children.
When he got serious about it...


This is a difficult topic for me.
The bible is very implicit in what it states.
I think everyone should be respected and treated well.
I remember when homosexual persons used to get beat up (I lived in NYC).
This is unacceptable.
But we also can't change laws to accommodate 3% of the population. (approx.)
Also, I don't know how someone can go a lifetime with no affection and intimacy with another human.
Some Christians are too fundamentalist, too hard-hearted....but they are right theologically-wise.
So what to do? I don't know.

Don't tempt me with living alone . There's a reason vets go homeless .often because they are internally driven to do so .

I don't have to confirm with whiny civilian silkyness .what i can't just shoot the guy ? No? We stacked bodies for that same thing overseas .now I can't ?

I hear the call on my bad days . Many vets do ,some fight it and others don't die I alone .

 

[GodsGrace]

Riven

Been watching Frank Turek.
He's very good!
Thanks.

 

[Corn Pop]

I thank my mother and father they were not gay and because they were not gay i have life and im alive. Thats just truth and fact.

 

[Corn Pop]

Whats peoples problem?. I mean the words man and woman has been defined for thousands of years, if people want to make there own words up and define something then sure go ahead, but dont try destory language and try change what has always been defined as a man and a woman. Its like trying to say gold can really be silver.

Its like the word marriage. Marriage has been defined for thousands of years and the definition is the union between a biological man and a biological woman. If people want a different type of ceremony maybe between a man and a man or woman and woman then can make another name for it and call it something original, the word marriage has already been taken and is an established defined word for thousands of years, you cant just decide to change it.

 

[Riven]

LOL
You could keep thinking about these things.
Do you think it's possible to come to believe in God totally through intelligence,
or do you think some kind of experience is necessary?

Yes. If God is logically consistent with what we observe in the universe, them it's certainly possible to come to believe in God through logic and reason. I think a personal experience is where people can get into trouble. Because then it's all about a person's feelings.

How come Riven?
What did the CC do to you?

They haven't done anything to me. I was never involved in the Catholic church. It's what the church leadership has done to children, and the lack of proper justice, that frustrates me.

This is a difficult topic for me.
The bible is very implicit in what it states.
I think everyone should be respected and treated well.
I remember when homosexual persons used to get beat up (I lived in NYC).
This is unacceptable.
But we also can't change laws to accommodate 3% of the population. (approx.)
Also, I don't know how someone can go a lifetime with no affection and intimacy with another human.
Some Christians are too fundamentalist, too hard-hearted....but they are right theologically-wise.
So what to do? I don't know.

I think more exposure to gay people would help Christians a great deal. You realize very quickly that most of them are just people trying to live their lives.

 

[Corn Pop]

I think more exposure to gay people would help Christians a great deal. You realize very quickly that most of them are just people trying to live their lives.

Yes, many homosexuals are kind people who just want to live there lives in peace. Christians are to love homosexuals equally the same as everyone else. That dont mean have to agree with the practice. I have gay friends.

 

[WIP]

Yes, many homosexuals are kind people who just want to live there lives in peace.

Same could be said for thieves, murderers, and so forth.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes. If God is logically consistent with what we observe in the universe, them it's certainly possible to come to believe in God through logic and reason. I think a personal experience is where people can get into trouble. Because then it's all about a person's feelings.


They haven't done anything to me. I was never involved in the Catholic church. It's what the church leadership has done to children, and the lack of proper justice, that frustrates me.


I think more exposure to gay people would help Christians a great deal. You realize very quickly that most of them are just people trying to live their lives.

I agree that we can come to know God only through reason.
I'm sending you another link. Hope you have lots of time!

As to the CC, I couldn't agree more.
The unpardonable fact is that the upper echelon knew it was going on.

Agreed on gays too. They're just trying to live their life.

Have a happy Christmas and I wish you a good new year!

 

[Riven]

I agree that we can come to know God only through reason.
I'm sending you another link. Hope you have lots of time!

As to the CC, I couldn't agree more.
The unpardonable fact is that the upper echelon knew it was going on.

Agreed on gays too. They're just trying to live their life.

Have a happy Christmas and I wish you a good new year!

Same to you, wondering

 

[Riven]

Same could be said for thieves, murderers, and so forth.

Thieves and murderers are kind people that just want to live their lives in peace? What?

 

[evenifigoalone]

I'm glad. Gay people are not your enemy. Many of them are brothers and sisters in the faith. The current status quo needs to be challenged, as it hurts too many people.
And, no, I'm not necessarily talking about affirming vs non-affirming. Just how our LGBTQ siblings are too often spit upon by the rest of the people in the faith for even wanting to seek God.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I thank my mother and father they were not gay and because they were not gay i have life and im alive. Thats just truth and fact.

That's not necessarily true, actually. Lots of gay men did try straight marriage at some point in their lives, many have children. Also, bisexual people exist.

 

[Corn Pop]

That's not necessarily true, actually. Lots of gay men did try straight marriage at some point in their lives, many have children. Also, bisexual people exist.

If someone had a straight marrige first and then entered a gay relationship how could they be gay?. I dont think people just turn gay. They had to have found someome of the opposite sex attative first to be with them to start, unless they were closet and done it just to hide from discrimination and not be known.. It would have to come down to preference.

 

[evenifigoalone]

If someone had a straight marrige first and then entered a gay relationship how could they be gay?. I dont think people just turn gay. They had to have found someome of the opposite sex attative first to be with them to start, unless they were closet and done it just to hide from discrimination and not be known.. It would have to come down to preference.

Uh, simple. They tried to deny they were gay and so they chose to marry someone of the opposite sex, despite only being attracted to the same sex.
They didn't "become gay", they were already gay. Sexual orientation is about who you are attracted to, and you can act against that. It's not healthy, but you can do it.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Norway is largely secular…
And a socialist democracy or at least a highly progressive country that is closer to true democracy than the USA by mixing in socialist ideas into economic policies and society as a whole. Christianity is compatible with progressive politics to a point…

Especially in the economic sphere.

 

[GodsGrace]

Norway is largely secular…
And a socialist democracy or at least a highly progressive country that is closer to true democracy than the USA by mixing in socialist ideas into economic policies and society as a whole. Christianity is compatible with progressive politics to a point…

Especially in the economic sphere.

I used to know someone from Norway and they said exactly what you posted above.
It's a mixture of a democracy but with socialism thrown in. I don't understand too much how this works....
difficult to understand something unless you've lived in a socialist place,,,,but I accept what he said and that
it was a good country to live in.

 

[Corn Pop]

Uh, simple. They tried to deny they were gay and so they chose to marry someone of the opposite sex, despite only being attracted to the same sex.
They didn't "become gay", they were already gay. Sexual orientation is about who you are attracted to, and you can act against that. It's not healthy, but you can do it.

If a biological man wants to pretend he is a woman that is transgender, and if they have a relationship with a woman that would be a striaght relationship as its a biological dude with a biological woman, yet peoppe will try call it gay because one now identifies as a woman so they both women. It makes no sense. If someone wants to pretend they are something else tbats fine. If a dude wants to dress and look and act like a woman thats rhere choice, but cant change biological makeup. A transdude can not get pregnant and push out a baby.

Thailand is full of dudes who pretend they are woman, and they call themsleves ladyboys, they do not call themsleves a woman or want to compete against biological woman in sport.

The words man and woman for thousands of years has been defined as XX and XY chromosomes.