Predestined to free will

[Yoel]

We read in Duet chap 30 ver 19 call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore CHOOSE life, that both thou and thy seed may live: So as a matter of fact mankind can CHOOSE to become a child of God, but they could NEVER work out a plan to where they could become saved, we have been giving a conscious and to some degree the bible teaches we can be obedient to the law of God, but that would not be at all enough to get us saved.Because to be saved it means God has to choose us, in fact he made the decision before the foundation of the world and did all the work to make payment for these people, so our choosing Him does not mean that we are going to become saved..So yes free will in a since is possible if it was God's plan...that is a good way to explain these truths to people of the free will doctrine that do not fully understand where we are coming from and by God's mercy may be interested in the truth

 

[Robert Cragg]

Please do not get upset with me, but I have to some what disagree. If you would Read John3-16+17. Yes God knows what our decision will be weither we will choose Jesus as our Lord and Savior or not but he does not decide for us. It is still our free will to choose. God sends out many callings to us through the power Of the Holy Spirit to draw us to God. It is our choice to follow that calling or not. That is where are responsibilty to witness to others comes in but then it's still thier choice to accept Jesus as there personal Lord and savior or not.
Maybe this illistration will help. Let's say you have a young child, and you put a fresh batch of cookies on the table you say to him I 'm going to do laundry and I'll be gone for a few minutes. While I'm gone don't you touch those cookies. Now in your heart you pretty much know he will probally take one, but you are hoping he won't. You come back, you were right he ate one. He says I just ate one. With God he foreknew what his choice will be, but the child still has to make his own choice.
The Bible says God's desire is that no man should perish, sadlly some people will reject God. Now if God's will is that no man should perish then he would arrange it so they would not.
If you read Matthew 26 - 39 You see that Jesus even says " Father if it be possible take this cup from Me, but not my will, but Your will be done." Jesus did not want to be seperated from The Father, but he would suffer that seperation when he took the weight of the worlds sins upon him self. God will not look apon sin, so at that moment he turned his back on His Son. You see even Jesus had a different will than His Father.
Please do not irritated with me I have no desire to argue with anyone, Robert.

 

[Yoel]

well i feel you and hate argueing aswell..and would much rather uplift...but there is no need to argue because you already got it totaly right when you said THY WILL BE DONE and that is exactly what has been done, we can do nothing to get ourselves saved Christ has to do all the saving and if you think you decided to become saved then that is a works based gospel

 

[Yoel]

hey brother incodently i really feel in comunion with your spirit and i know alot of these forums can get ugly and i hate it aswell, it causes division in the body of Christ i feel we can all discuss and should doctrinal differences in love..click on my link and please be apart of this new body of believers i am trying to get going for the Lord and we really run the gammit here as far as denominational differences but we are really tearing them down..how important that is in these last days, infact i am really reluctent to invite anyone i feel will act in an ugly way and only those i feel can hash out biblical truths in a peacful manner...God stay with you and i hope you come aboard

 

[godblessyou.tv]

This is one question that has always puzzled me: if God is truly omnipotent and knows all we will do or choose, then it follows in my mind that our decision has been preordained by this foreknowledge. How then can we reconcile this to the issue of free will?

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

This is one question that has always puzzled me: if God is truly omnipotent and knows all we will do or choose, then it follows in my mind that our decision has been preordained by this foreknowledge. How then can we reconcile this to the issue of free will?

Here are some of my thoughts on the topic of free will and predestination, for those who have not heard it before.

This is one of my favorite analogies:
There is a bus that is traveling from downtown to the mall. You have the free will to either get on the bus or not. Completely your decision. You make your decision based on whatever knowledge that you have about the bus, the road, the driver, the mall, and whatever other information that you choose to ignore, or influence your decision.
If you choose to get on the bus, then you are predestined to go to the mall.

In the same way, decisions that you have been making your whole life, have influenced where you are and where you are going. Also take into consideration those Christians who have been praying for you along the way. We may never know who has lifted us up before the Father. God answers their prayers as well as yours. All of those things weave together to form the fabric of your life.

This is one of the reasons that it is critical that we pray for one another.

Also blended in are the needs of others. Someone may be praying for a need to be met, a job to be filled, a missionary to be sent, and God looks at that need then looks for someone who is best qualified to meet the needs.

 

[follower of Christ]

Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
(2Ti 2:10 KJV)

*IF* the 'elect' were guaranteed salvation then this passage is without any meaning whatsoever.
*IF* their salvation was absolutely set in stone and they had no will at all in the matter, then Paul needn't 'endure' anything at all that they 'may also obtain'....it would be a given that regardless of what they or Paul do, that salvation was simply understood.

The Jews have had an attitude that if they arent saved, then God Himself has failed. They seem to reject that THEY have choices also, given for them to make by a sovereign Creator, that DO affect whether they will be in glory or in a lake of fire.

Just as WE have a choice, elect or no, and must endure unto the end to be saved...just as Christ has Himself said.

 

[Robert Cragg]

Thank you for your response your right I do not want to argue. I always try to back up what I say with scripture that does not mean I'm always right. Anyways thank you for your kind words.
God Bless You,
Rob

 

[Robert Cragg]

I thank you very much for your reply, it is very uplifting.
God Bless You,
Rob