Pretrib Teachings Damaging to Our Very Soul - Part 1

[for_his_glory]

really i have listened to david jeremiah a few times .i have even read some of his books . he has never said that or wrote that

I've heard this since the mid 70's when the teachings of pretrib exploded here in America into the money making machine it is today that has lined the pockets of every self proclaimed preacher that has written books on it and teach it including David Jeremiah. Going to Seminary does not make you a Pastor as it's God calling those who He anoints to teach His word.

 

[jerry63935]

. Going to Seminary does not make you a Pastor as it's God calling those who He anoints to teach His word.

nor does just saying your a teacher or pastor make you one either

money making machine it is today that has lined the pockets of every self proclaimed preacher that has written books on it and teach it including David Jeremiah

are there money makers out there very much benny Hinn for one as per David Jeremiah i think your over stepping your boundary . i do not follow the man .i have listened to him and i have read some of his books. there are some things he teaches that i don't agree with. But i have a deep respect for Him . see you just took your title that God gave you and turned it into your opinion .
i also have doubt the Holy spirit gave you that to say . when it comes to Bible prophecy there is no man i follow hook line and sinker . that includes jay vernon mcgee who has gone on to be with the Lord . but i respect his teaching and the person. as far as i am concerned men like this are fathers in the Lord . so i will say this out of Love . calling out names as money grubbers with out evidence is wrong.. we wonder why the Body of Christ is so heavily divided

 

[JLB]

Christians should study the real thing by listening to the spirit of truth .

Amen!

 

[daninthelionsden]

In my mid-teens I came across a red-letter edition of the Bible and read only what our Lord had to say about the End-times and His return. I came away a firm post-tribber and have been ever since. I now use a red-letter edition to test all theology.

 

[JLB]

In my mid-teens I came across a red-letter edition of the Bible and read only what our Lord had to say about the End-times and His return. I came away a firm post-tribber and have been ever since. I now use a red-letter edition to test all theology.

Amen.


Many people don’t realize that in the book of Revelation you will find His words in red letters as well. Very eye opening.



JLB

 

[Christ_empowered]

as a side note...

-sigh- this hits kinda deep. my older, wiser, Pentecostal friend...loves some pre-trib. she's in her...70s, I think?...so she's been taught/indoctrinated this way her whole life, and...

I think she is a genuine believer, I think many pre-tribbers are, I think we can all have genuine differences of opinion on -some- issues, and yet...

while I don't know that I'd go so far as to say that dedication to the pre-trib, raptured before it all hits the fan outlook damages a genuine believer's soul, i will say/type that...

i have -concerns- about it affects one's outlook, one's understanding of Scripture and really...life, here on earth, in general.

pre-tribbers will say "and we'll be in Heaven when the tribulation takes place...pity those left here on earth...," and it sounds, to me, like spiritual escapism. its the religious equivalent of reading romance novels or binge watching Lifetime. other thing...

the churches that inundate the people with pre-trib seem to also (just from what I've observed, mostly from a distance) a form of Christianity that somehow merges positive thinking and old school self-help (believe in yourself! God is for you!) over...

-sigh- i don't even want to write this but...its all this feel good stuff over Scripture and, really, Christian tradition, too. I am -not- saying that God is punitive and He wants us all to suffer, nor am I saying that only those who think like I do are "real Christians," but I am thinking/typing...

Jesus never promised us a rose garden. This side of eternity, we are redeemed human beings, living in a sin marred and scarred world. Even in Christ..."life isn't fair sometimes," it seems. where is the place for suffering and the injustice of the world we live in, for the very real tragicomic nature of human life, in the pre-trib+positive thinking sort of Christianity?

blah. and...I'm done.

 

[jerry63935]

Jesus never promised us a rose garden.

you are correct i have read all the reason of pre trib allegedly dangerous . i have yet to see a valid fact .if we will just do our best in our christian life .it will all work out

 

[Christ_empowered]

yeah, you're right. I think...

pre-tribbers are some of the most devoted, solid Christians -ever- . so, i kinda back track on that long piece i wrote out. i think...

i think the problem of suffering is one that all human beings deal with, and that goes 3x for Christians. how is it possible that life can be so rough when we have a loving God?

as for pre-trib and all that...??? we'll find out, one day, now won't we? in the meantime...

"eyes fixed on Christ."

 

[jerry63935]

pre-tribbers are some of the most devoted, solid Christians -ever-

yes they are just like the others. this is why it's wrong to say it is dangerous

 

[Anto9us2]

The OP May be a bit Over The Top about belief in pre-trib being "damaging to the soul".

FHG gave some stuff on it, about her - but now I pause to ask myself: How and in what way did the years I believed in PreTrib DAMAGE MY SOUL?

None that I can see. Did it DAMAGE MY world-view about the middle east? Probably. Thinking "Israel can do no wrong" because ZAP
all of a sudden Christians will vanish and God will focus on Israel again

That can be damaging in a sense, and lead to the mistaken NEWSPAPER ESCHATOLOGY I had after reading LATE GREAT PLANET EARTH which has been mentioned in last few pages here...

In 3rd grade Sunday school, t h e pastor's wife taught us book of Revelation, that "it's all so symbolic, don't worry about taking anything literally"

 

[Anto9us2]

At 19 I became saved, lo and behold, to "fill the void" of ESCHATOLOGY was LATE GREAT PLANET EARTH

First published in 1970, a couple years before I was saved, here was a PACKAGED ESCHATOLOGY, Russia was Gog, newspaper ESCHATOLOGY and speculation had us thinking at one time that Henry Kissinger was going to be the Antichrist! Anyone remember that?

I had periods of doubt about pretrib, when Rosenthal's PRE-WRATH book came out, I swallowed that, some other anti-Muslim scheme for a while and I went hang-gliding on the wings of eschatological doctrine

 

[Anto9us2]

But years passed...
I saw in the Bible that Gog was originally a ruler and Magog was a people, yet in Revelation "Gog and Magog" are like nations at the 4 corners of the earth, and what's going on?
In
Then I came to question, eventually, the whole schmiel about "the prophetic clock stopped"

And saw no biblical justification f o r Daniel's 70 shaviM NOT RUNNING CONCURRENTLY

Iow - the 70 weeks are over - ending with Stoning of Stephen

Christ was cut off after the 69th week. Nothing about middle of 70th week

It is true that Revelation speaks of a 42 month period, 3 1/2 years, but Bible DOES NOT SAY this is any part of Daniel's 70 weeks

 

[Anto9us2]

Two biblical precedents for "a long time being declared for a given purpose" are the Jews' bondage in Egypt, which was over 400 years, and the 70 years that Daniel sees in Jeremiah.

In both cases, the time runs CONCURRENTLY.

No "King 's X" - no "prophetic clock stops" - no 2000 year GAP - think about it.

There's a beginning and an end. No GAPS.

Daniel is a book many liberal bible scholars view as EX EVENTU prophecy. I don't personally swallow that, but many claim Daniel was written at the time of Antiochus Epiphanes/Macabbean period. That Daniel was not even a historical figure, just a literary construction based on a Dan El from Ugaritic literature. Some scholars go so far as saying MESSIAH who is cut off after 69th week is not even a reference to Christ, but to "an annointed one" who they pin as Onias III, a high priest, and they turn a remarkable prophecy about 70 weeks and MESSIAH being cut off into - well, nothing at all, really.

Daniel is in the section of the OT known as THE WRITINGS, not THE PROPHETS. Yet Jesus refers to Daniel the Prophet, telling followers they will see an Abomination of Desolation that Daniel spoke about. The most liberal scholars say the only abomination was Antiochus IV Epiphanes sacrificing a pig on the altar, well before Jesus' time.

But followers of Jesus did see an Abomination of Desolation standing where it ought not, circa 66-67 AD, and the followers did flee, to Pella and elsewhere. Roman insignia made their eagle "stand where it ought not" - eventually in destroyed Temple

 

[Anto9us2]

The Temple Romans destroyed under Titus son of Vespasian - interesting that 3 1/2 years for this Roman-Jewish war, and a similar period in Revelation is mentioned

How many "time, Times, and half a time" do we have going on?

Or DID WE HAVE, with a final one yet to come...

One interpretation of "the seven churches" in Revelation is "the church through stages of history"

But that's just made up. What if it is 2000 more years til Christ comes back?

Laodicea has a super-long chunk of this " churches through history " view.

No, 7 churches were actual historical church-cities in Asia Minor

 

[daninthelionsden]

I think where I witnessed pre-trib belief being damaging, was right in my own family. My mother and my half-siblings are all pre-trib and that, along with all the other popular teachings, created an air of spiritual haughtiness. A sort of pride and a sort of "I can do whatever I want, I'll be outta here anyway." attitude. I believe they don't think they'll be held accountable for anything ever.

 

[jerry63935]

I believe they don't think they'll be held accountable for anything ever.

they need to read the BOOK we are accountable for the good and bad in works . of a person that is saved thinks sin is ok that you will just go on to heaven... just may be deceived and find them selves with the group in matthew 7:20

 

[JLB]

I think where I witnessed pre-trib belief being damaging, was right in my own family. My mother and my half-siblings are all pre-trib and that, along with all the other popular teachings, created an air of spiritual haughtiness. A sort of pride and a sort of "I can do whatever I want, I'll be outta here anyway." attitude. I believe they don't think they'll be held accountable for anything ever.

The most frightening aspect about thinking we will not have to face persecution during the tribulation is no one is preparing themselves or their family.

I addition if they or their deceived family members take the mark of the beast, thinking they must do this to survive, then they will be eternally lost.


Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:9-12


I would hate to be responsible for deceiving a multitude of people with false doctrine about the great tribulation that caused them to become lost forever and suffer in this way.





JLB

 

[jerry63935]

The most frightening aspect about thinking we will not have to face persecution during the tribulation is no one is preparing themselves or their family.

will we have to face persecution any thing is possible in this world jesus said
John 16:33

“These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.”

nobody is immune the way to prepare read the word pray ask God for help. we simply do not know exactly how the end times will play out. everyday is tribulation everyday is a trial .everyday we face temptation. the Christian pastor who was in prison in turkey . most likely was not as prepared as he thought . But GOD brought him through it and out of it. others have not been so fortunate China n korea Iran many other anti CHRIST NATIONS kill on the spot . i am sure some in the world f today has suffered physical persuasion
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. (Luke 21:36)
Because thou hast kept [guarded] the word of my patience, I also will keep [guard] thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. (Revelation 3:10) we could take these 2 scriptures and GO a. PRE TRIB OR b the tribulation saints then took out . my self i do lean more in to mid way .the latter half is to be worse this is me i could be wrong i could be right Either way he will make away of escape

 

[jerry63935]

I would hate to be responsible for deceiving a multitude of people with false doctrine about the great tribulation that caused them to become lost forever and suffer in this way.

if one is truly saved there will be no lost 4 ever .that is not osas doctrine its truth if we are children of the light how can night over take us , if we know the real thing then the fake can not deceive us. i will say this again i am not pre trib i am be ready but the pre trib teaching i have heard .teaches to guard against false hoods . that includes David Jeremiah in fact i have book wrote by him Jesus final warning.. one other i have is i though i would never see the day.. both books of warning the real depiction is living on false hope

 

[JLB]

the Christian pastor who was in prison in turkey . most likely was not as prepared as he thought . But GOD brought him through it and out of it. others have not been so fortunate China n korea Iran many other anti CHRIST NATIONS kill on the spot .

Exactly.

Living in a nation that persecutes Christians as a way of life, has its benefits, in that your mindset is geared towards living as though today you could be martyred.

Not so sure in America. Not yet, anyway.

My point is simple.

Believe what Christ taught us about the great tribulation and embrace the idea we are going to be here through it.



JLB