Researching apostles...

[awaken]

I tried to search the forum for a thread that discussed the apotles and could not find one. I have been researching information about them in scripture and have come up with the following...Just would like some thoughts on what I have come up with so far...

I have heard many assumptions about the discontinuing apostles. Most say that they had a job and the power to carry it out, and then imply that this excludes anyone else from experiencing that power again.

I do not see Matthew 10 limiting the number of Jesus' disciples to twelve, or exclude anyone else from receiving the same authority. Others besides the Twelve certainly performed signs and wonders.

I see it the Holy Spirit job, not just the Twelve, making know to us what is of Jesus.

Mark 16 makes it plain that it is the believers that signs will follow not just the apostles.

Another observation from previous threads is the assumption of there are only going to be twelve seated in heaven so there are only 12. My question to them at this point is who is going to take that 12th seat? Matthias who took Judas place or Paul? What about the other apostles that are named in the New Testament?

Paul also makes it clear in I Thessalonians 1:1 and 2:6 that his apostleship is the same as that of Timothy and Silas.

Did Paul qualify for a place among the Twelve under the terms Peter laid out in Acts 1? Was Paul a follower of Jesus since John the Baptist?

The Twelve were a distinct group, but not the only apostles.

Jesus is not dead; he can continue to call apostles just like he does pastors and teachers. Paul said Jesus does this for the equipping of the saints.

I see it completely unbiblical for anyone to assume that Jesus is not callings out apostles today.

One last point…I have mentioned before…In Eph. 4:8-12 it says that it was after Jesus ascended up on high that he gave gifts unto men. Then he list those in vs. 11..apostles being one of them!

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I tried to search the forum for a thread that discussed the apotles and could not find one. I have been researching information about them in scripture and have come up with the following...Just would like some thoughts on what I have come up with so far...

I have heard many assumptions about the discontinuing apostles. Most say that they had a job and the power to carry it out, and then imply that this excludes anyone else from experiencing that power again.

I do not see Matthew 10 limiting the number of Jesus' disciples to twelve, or exclude anyone else from receiving the same authority. Others besides the Twelve certainly performed signs and wonders.

I see it the Holy Spirit job, not just the Twelve, making know to us what is of Jesus.

Mark 16 makes it plain that it is the believers that signs will follow not just the apostles.

Another observation from previous threads is the assumption of there are only going to be twelve seated in heaven so there are only 12. My question to them at this point is who is going to take that 12th seat? Matthias who took Judas place or Paul? What about the other apostles that are named in the New Testament?

Paul also makes it clear in I Thessalonians 1:1 and 2:6 that his apostleship is the same as that of Timothy and Silas.

Did Paul qualify for a place among the Twelve under the terms Peter laid out in Acts 1? Was Paul a follower of Jesus since John the Baptist?

The Twelve were a distinct group, but not the only apostles.

Jesus is not dead; he can continue to call apostles just like he does pastors and teachers. Paul said Jesus does this for the equipping of the saints.

I see it completely unbiblical for anyone to assume that Jesus is not callings out apostles today.

One last point…I have mentioned before…In Eph. 4:8-12 it says that it was after Jesus ascended up on high that he gave gifts unto men. Then he list those in vs. 11..apostles being one of them!

Tell me, what are the qualifications of an apostle? Do you know there are other people in the Bible referred to as apostle, but it doesn't carry that same weight and authority as it did with the twelve?

Who today would be an apostle of this authority in the modern church? Should we organize our church like the Mormons do?

 

[awaken]

I tried to search the forum for a thread that discussed the apotles and could not find one. I have been researching information about them in scripture and have come up with the following...Just would like some thoughts on what I have come up with so far...

I have heard many assumptions about the discontinuing apostles. Most say that they had a job and the power to carry it out, and then imply that this excludes anyone else from experiencing that power again.

I do not see Matthew 10 limiting the number of Jesus' disciples to twelve, or exclude anyone else from receiving the same authority. Others besides the Twelve certainly performed signs and wonders.

I see it the Holy Spirit job, not just the Twelve, making know to us what is of Jesus.

Mark 16 makes it plain that it is the believers that signs will follow not just the apostles.

Another observation from previous threads is the assumption of there are only going to be twelve seated in heaven so there are only 12. My question to them at this point is who is going to take that 12th seat? Matthias who took Judas place or Paul? What about the other apostles that are named in the New Testament?

Paul also makes it clear in I Thessalonians 1:1 and 2:6 that his apostleship is the same as that of Timothy and Silas.

Did Paul qualify for a place among the Twelve under the terms Peter laid out in Acts 1? Was Paul a follower of Jesus since John the Baptist?

The Twelve were a distinct group, but not the only apostles.

Jesus is not dead; he can continue to call apostles just like he does pastors and teachers. Paul said Jesus does this for the equipping of the saints.

I see it completely unbiblical for anyone to assume that Jesus is not callings out apostles today.

One last point…I have mentioned before…In Eph. 4:8-12 it says that it was after Jesus ascended up on high that he gave gifts unto men. Then he list those in vs. 11..apostles being one of them!

Tell me, what are the qualifications of an apostle? Do you know there are other people in the Bible referred to as apostle, but it doesn't carry that same weight and authority as it did with the twelve?

Who today would be an apostle of this authority in the modern church? Should we organize our church like the Mormons do?

So Eph. 4:11 does not apply today or are those apostles different too?

 

[Knotical]

You should also consider that an Apostle and a Disciple are two different things. Yes, a person can be both, but they are two distinctly different things. As Doulos Iesou alluded to, Paul was also considered an Apostle. Someone who never actually personally met Jesus.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

So Eph. 4:11 does not apply today or are those apostles different too?

Of course I think it applies today? Were you going to answer my questions?

Tell me, what are the qualifications of an apostle? Do you know there are other people in the Bible referred to as apostle, but it doesn't carry that same weight and authority as it did with the twelve?

Who today would be an apostle of this authority in the modern church? Should we organize our church like the Mormons do?

 

[awaken]

So Eph. 4:11 does not apply today or are those apostles different too?

Of course I think it applies today? Were you going to answer my questions?

Tell me, what are the qualifications of an apostle? Do you know there are other people in the Bible referred to as apostle, but it doesn't carry that same weight and authority as it did with the twelve?

Who today would be an apostle of this authority in the modern church? Should we organize our church like the Mormons do?

Well as most understand an apostle means one sent by God.

I see apostles here until the entire church comes into unity.
They are a gift given to equip the church to maturity.
They equip the church with a foundation teaching.

I can only find in scritpture that to qualify for an apostle they are set by God. The first apostles were set and called by Jesus Christ, later apostles like Paul came to the original 12 to receive authority to minister in the capacity of apostle.

They can not send themselves.
They are not elected or hired.
They are called and set by the Holy Spirit.

Can we pick and choose parts of the Bible that we want and leave the rest?

Luke 6:13; Acts 1:1-2; Rom. 1:1-5; Eph. 4:7-8 Jesus hand/called out his apostles.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I do not see Matthew 10 limiting the number of Jesus' disciples to twelve, or exclude anyone else from receiving the same authority. Others besides the Twelve certainly performed signs and wonders. I see it the Holy Spirit job, not just the Twelve, making know to us what is of Jesus.

There are those to whom the apostles passed on the "signs and wonders" gifts. They are documented in the Bible. 1 Corinthians 13 clearly states that those gifts would end soon after the time the letter was written. In fact, I believe that happened by the time the canon of Scripture was closed with The Revelation, written by John in 96 AD. There is no indication that any of those who received the gifts from the apostles were able to pass them on themselves. I believe that is because it is our witness and testimony to changed lives that are the "greater things than these" we do as followers of Christ. The mere power of the words and the evidence of who I was vs. who I am changing the lives of others is a far greater miracle than speaking in unknown languages or claiming to "speak words into the life" of another, which only sets us up to be false prophets. I know my testimony. I know His power. I don't need "signs and wonders" to show others.

Jesus is not dead; he can continue to call apostles just like he does pastors and teachers.

But He doesn't, because as I've just stated, the words are far more powerful than anything we can claim to do.

Paul said Jesus does this for the equipping of the saints.

And He did. And we are that inheritance. Without the need for the miracles. We ourselves are miracles. That's the key to understanding why "tongues, prophecy and knowledge" are dead.

 

[gr8grace]

I agree. And His completed word to us is sufficient in all things in this life.

 

[P31Woman]

I stand in agreement with TND and Gr8grace. Good post TND.

 

[awaken]

This thread is not to discuss whether the manifestation of the Spirit has ceased...that is another thread... nowhere in scriptures does it say they have yet...not until we know as we are known or see face to face.

This is to discuss if apostles are still here and prove they are or are not by the Word of God.

Most of the post so far is just assumptions and opinions not backed up by scriptures...

 

[gr8grace]

This thread is not to discuss whether the manifestation of the Spirit has ceased...that is another thread... nowhere in scriptures does it say they have yet...not until we know as we are known or see face to face.

This is to discuss if apostles are still here and prove they are or are not by the Word of God.

Most of the post so far is just assumptions and opinions not backed up by scriptures...

First of Matthias was not an Apostle(Jesus does not cast lots for His choice). Jesus chooses Apostles, Paul was Jesus' choice.

I think TND did a great job showing why we do not have Apostles in this day and age.

Can you Show us a man who is an Apostle in this age? Can you use Scripture to back up that this man IS an Apostle?

 

[awaken]

This thread is not to discuss whether the manifestation of the Spirit has ceased...that is another thread... nowhere in scriptures does it say they have yet...not until we know as we are known or see face to face.

This is to discuss if apostles are still here and prove they are or are not by the Word of God.

Most of the post so far is just assumptions and opinions not backed up by scriptures...

First of Matthias was not an Apostle(Jesus does not cast lots for His choice). Jesus chooses Apostles, Paul was Jesus' choice.

I think TND did a great job showing why we do not have Apostles in this day and age.

Can you Show us a man who is an Apostle in this age? Can you use Scripture to back up that this man IS an Apostle?

Are you asking me to show you in scripture men are called today? How can I show you if it is not recorded in the Word?
Can you explain Eph. 4 in context?

 

[awaken]

So far I just have opinions and assumptions and most of what was in the OP is not even addressed!