Sabbath Day business

[Jethro Bodine]

Jethro, why don't yo just drop the BS and just explain to us how by your faith you uphold the law of Moses. That's what I want to hear from you. How you do it. explain it to us. Only do not quote the scriptures to do so. I already know what the scriptures say. I want Jethro to explain how Jethro upholds Law of Moses by faith and not by works.

When you can find the word within yourself to explain your faith, then I will listen with open ears. But is it in you. Can you explain yourself without quoting the Bible?

NOBODY LISTENS WHEN YOU DON"T HAVE SCRIPTURE TO DEFEND THE TRUTH! But now if you don't have your own words you won't listen! "Shall I sing a dirge..." Good grief!

God loved me by forgiving my sins through faith in Jesus' blood. I return that love to him by giving that same love out to others, you know, by not hurting them (the fulfillment of the law). Out of gratitude I seek to do that, even when I don't feel like loving others. Which is probably where the rub is for you. You probably think that if you have to purposely decide to be thankful and show gratitude for God's loving forgiveness by deciding to love others then you are operating in damnable works, because somehow that's not doing it by the Spirit. How ridiculous.

 

[ezrider]

You said you knew the real sin Adam sinned. It directly contradicted what the Bible says.

What have I said that contradicts the Bible? Tell me. List them if you can.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jethro, why don't yo just drop the BS and just explain to us how by your faith you uphold the law of Moses.

I find it amazing that quoting the Word of God is BS to you (post #272). You didn't get it from the verses of the Bible alone? Do you have the Spirit?

Going to the gym. I'm out for a while.

 

[ezrider]

NOBODY LISTENS WHEN YOU DON"T HAVE SCRIPTURE TO DEFEND THE TRUTH! But now if you don't have your own words you won't listen! "Shall I sing a dirge..." Good grief!

God loved me by forgiving my sins through faith in Jesus' blood. I return that love to him by giving that same love out to others, you know, by not hurting them (the fulfillment of the law). Out of gratitude I seek to do that, even when I don't feel like loving others. Which is probably where the rub is for you. You probably think that if you have to purposely decide to be thankful and show gratitude for God's loving forgiveness by deciding to love others then you are operating in damnable works, because somehow that's not doing it by the Spirit. How ridiculous.

Jethro Bodine, you are still far from:


FATHER LOVE THEM, FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO.

 

[JLB]

Don't wait around for the Millennium:

"10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. 11 Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so * that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience." (Hebrews 4:10-11 NASB)

1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.
Hebrews 4:1,9-11

There is a rest to come for the people of God.

While it is still called Today, we are to strive to enter that rest, which is to come.

Amen.


JLB

 

[JPPT1974]

Sadly Sundays are not the place where church is but with big bucks unfortunately.

 

[ezrider]

1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.
Hebrews 4:1,9-11

There is a rest to come for the people of God.

While it is still called Today, we are to strive to enter that rest, which is to come.

Amen.


JLB

By Faith through His promises, I have already entered into His rest. That is where we have been called to, to enter into his rest.
You can not be lead and taught of the Holy Spirit except you have entered into His Rest.

Isaiah 30:1-2
Woe to the rebellious children, saith the Lord,
that take counsel, but not of me;
and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit,
that they may add sin to sin:
That walk to go down into Egypt,
and have not asked at my mouth;
to strengthen themselves in the strength of Pharaoh,
and to trust in the shadow of Egypt.

The shadow of Egypt by the way, is a reference to the covenant made on Sinia. Yeah, that one, the one with Moses name attache to it.


Isaiah 30:15
For thus saith the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel;
In returning and rest shall ye be saved;
in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength:
and ye would not.



The promise may yet still remain for you, but do not think it has prevented the expectation of the promise for me.

.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

"6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything (toward justification--see context), but faith working through love." (Galatians 5:6 NASB parenthesis mine)

"14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."" (Galatians 5:14 NASB)

"(H) who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law." (Romans 13:8 NASB)

"28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law." (Romans 3:28,31 NASB)

Love is the manifestation of faith. Love fulfills/ establishes (upholds) the law of Moses. I know I'm using only the scriptures to base my belief on, but that's what I'm going with.

So, ezrider, cut the BS. What grief do you have with these plain words of scripture? Do you have a problem with them? Is there some enlightened interpretation that I'm lacking that makes these simple words really not mean what they say?

 

[ezrider]

1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.

Just a thought JLB, if you and I were to go a thousand years into the future, or even two thousand, why lets just go a full 7000 years into the future. In our future time together, if you and I were to pick up a Bible and read it. Do you think that the verse that you quoted will have changed for you. Is there ever any time in the future where that scripture will not read "SINCE A PROMISE REMAINS OF ENTERING INTO HIS REST."?

WHEN ARE THE SCRIPTURES GOING TO GIVE YOU PERMISSION TO ENTER INTO HIS REST?

 

[Obadiah]

Sadly Sundays are not the place where church is but with big bucks unfortunately.

Are you trying to say that all the churches that meet for worship on Sunday are only there to make big bucks? You've obviously never been involved in the finances of the average neighborhood church to see it first hand, have you? Have you even been to one lately?

 

[ezrider]

So, ezrider, cut the BS. What grief do you have with these plain words of scripture? Do you have a problem with them? Is there some enlightened interpretation that I'm lacking that makes these simple words really not mean what they say?

I have absolutely and unequivocally no problem with what is written in those scriptures. None what so ever. Where have I disagreed or spoke against those scriptures?

 

[JLB]

By Faith through His promises, I have already entered into His rest.

Yes brother, by faith we do enter His rest.

That's my point!

The reality of that rest comes at the end of your faith, when you and I, in reality, do enter that rest.

Until then we enter that rest, by faith, which means we have the hope of entering that rest...

Faith is the substance of things hoped for... the evidence of things NOT SEEN!


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I have absolutely and unequivocally no problem with what is written in those scriptures. None what so ever. Where have I disagreed or spoke against those scriptures?

You're playing games. I know you have your own interpretation of those passages that you obviously agree with. What you disagree with is that faith fulfills and upholds the law of Moses. And you probably disagree because you do not know that you do not have to keep the letter of the law to fulfill and uphold the law of Moses. So, since that not a part of your understanding you instantly think that any and all references to the law of Moses HAS to mean a literal to the letter of the law keeping of the law of Moses.

If so, then you are no different than the vast majority of people in the church. For the them the four letter words of the faith are 'law', and 'works' because they can only understand those words as referring to Paul's damnable works gospel. For all the enlightenment that the hyper-grace movement claims it has it's ironic that they can not see plain words of scripture right under their noses. But, as I say, that just illustrates the incredible power of indoctrinations to blind the eyes.

 

[smaller]

Unfortunately, with just about every "viewer" of the law, they only see God's engagements with people. That was never the case.

How so? We know, from Jesus, that the devil is also "moved" into action within man by The Word. See this disclosure in Mark 4:15 and all the other "seed" parables, showing that the devil(s) is moved by The Word, to RESIST same, and does so in MAN.

So, how might we see the Law of God, in His Light? We might see that there is a world with inhabitants that can not be seen, yet these "interact" with and within mankind, and do resist the LAWs of God IN man.

Here, by the Prophet, we see the same disclosure:

Hosea 4:12
My people ask counsel at their stocks, and their staff declareth unto them: for the spirit of whoredoms hath caused them to err, and they have gone a whoring from under their God.

Hosea 5:4
They will not frame their doings to turn unto their God: for the spirit of whoredoms is in the midst of them, and they have not known the Lord.

If anyone views the Laws of God, [which I happen to believe every Word of is fully applicable and will remain so], as only "mancentric" they will continue to miss the entire crux of the Laws. The spirit of whoredoms can never be legal or obedient. That "spirit" can only resist and violate the law, internally, in the midst of people. This active working against the Laws of God transpires within the minds and hearts of everyone who picks up the Law, in whatever "form" they pick it up, to (claimed) obedience or denial of present day applicability.

It is not possible for the tempter, the devil, to be legal or lawful. This "illegal" spirit is engaged within everyone in the form of various temptations, within, and is prompted by THE LAW to do so, within. Paul elaborates quite nicely on this in Romans 7:7-13, showing the operation of that spirit of disobedience in his own flesh, working in it's adverse ways to the LAWs.

I conclude therefore that the tempter can not be legal in any claimed "legal person." I conclude that the tempter can not be "obedient" in any claimed "obedient" person. These things are just not possible. The Law is meant to condemn both that working and worker, the tempter.

Therefore, the just live by faith. They have no basis upon which to stand, legal or obedient, when their "internals" come into LIGHT, because it is not just about "the person" but also about the tempter.

If this is seen, which sight can only come from God in Christ, then all arguments about "the Law" disappear, and we see it's intentions are to expose the lawlessness of the tempter who does operate IN man. In this way the Law is my friendly ALLY. But I would never presume to make the tempter "legal or obedient" in me, as that will not and can not happen.

Any honest believer will and can be "led" into the facts of this matter, and will then be divided from lying hypocrisy.

We are all falsely led to vainly attempt to justify the entirety of ourselves, in every thought, word or deed, and that is just a dead end lying street. The Law exposes the problems of our internals. And yes, it is a present dire problem with everyone. Yet the source of that problem is NOT the person, but the spirit of disobedience, the spirit of whoredoms, who affect every person, believer or not.

Everyone who sees that they still sin, even in thought, should logically connect their own sin to the devil, just as 1 John 3:8 shows us to do. Once this connection is made, you will see the source of all lawlessness and will conclude that it's not YOU as a believer. You will stand only by faith in Jesus Christ. The tempter will not and can not stand, and will instead be "exposed."

This is the Sword of Division that Swings from the Mouth of Jesus, able to DIVIDE, permanently, when the time comes to do so. Until then there IS an edge of that Sword that is against us, and for good reasons.

As it pertains to the Sabbath, this day is a shadow, an image, a typology of that day when we are promised rest from having to "wrestle" with our own built in enemy. This is the "remembrance" of the promise. Whether we remember on a particular day or everyday is entirely irrelevant in the discourses of shadows and typology.

 

[ezrider]

You're playing games. I know you have your own interpretation of those passages that you obviously agree with. What you disagree with is that faith fulfills and upholds the law of Moses. And you probably disagree because you do not know that you do not have to keep the letter of the law to fulfill and uphold the law of Moses. So, since that not a part of your understanding you instantly think that any and all references to the law of Moses HAS to mean a literal to the letter of the law keeping of the law of Moses.

If so, then you are no different than the vast majority of people in the church. For the them the four letter words of the faith are 'law', and 'works' because they can only understand those words as referring to Paul's damnable works gospel. For all the enlightenment that the hyper-grace movement claims it has it's ironic that they can not see plain words of scripture right under their noses. But, as I say, that just illustrates the incredible power of indoctrinations to blind the eyes.

So the fact the I agreed with what the "scripture" said in the verses you posted from Galatians just wasn't good enough for you. You still think you have something to prove so now you have taken the liberty upon yourself to try and put words in my mouth, though they are your words out of Your Mouth.

But what should be obvious for all to see Jethro, is that you are not giving any weight to what I am presenting against the scripture, but only what you believe the interpretation of the scripture.


Now I absolutely know that I can find within the scriptures the literal phrase that tells me I am fulfilling the Law Of Christ.

So, before you say anything more, can you please post the scripture that literally, and I mean literally states the we fulfill the Law of Moses.

Can you do that?

 

[ezrider]

Now I absolutely know that I can find within the scriptures the literal phrase that tells me I am fulfilling the Law Of Christ.

Galatians 6:2-5
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. For every man shall bear his own burden.


The law of Christ. Bear ye one another's burdens. Forgive one another, Love one another. These things fulfill the Law of Christ.


So now if you would, since I have given you the scripture that says by doing these thing we fulfill the Law of Christ,

Well your up, time to present your scripture that says by loving the Lord you God and loving your neighbor as yourself fulfills the Law of Moses.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So the fact the I agreed with what the "scripture" said in the verses you posted from Galatians just wasn't good enough for you.

You're playing games. It's impossible for you to agree with those scriptures and then turn right around and say faith does not fulfill/ uphold the law of Moses.

You still think you have something to prove so now you have taken the liberty upon yourself to try and put words in my mouth, though they are your words out of Your Mouth.

You are the one that said faith does not fulfill the law of Moses. If you had not said that we would not be having this discussion right now.

But what should be obvious for all to see Jethro, is that you are not giving any weight to what I am presenting against the scripture, but only what you believe the interpretation of the scripture.

No, that's just your vain attempt to avoid admitting you're wrong. I see this all the time in these forums. You're playing games because you can't admit the scriptures contradict your doctrine.

Now I absolutely know that I can find within the scriptures the literal phrase that tells me I am fulfilling the Law Of Christ.

We all know faith fulfills the law of Christ. What you can't bring yourself to admit is the law of Christ IS the law of Moses, minus the literal old covenant aspect of Levitical priesthood, temple, and sacrifice (He is all those in this New Covenant).

So, before you say anything more, can you please post the scripture that literally, and I mean literally states the we fulfill the Law of Moses.

Here they are again:

"6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything (toward justification--see context), but faith working through love." (Galatians 5:6 NASB parenthesis mine)​

"14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."" (Galatians 5:14 NASB)

"(H) who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law." (Romans 13:8 NASB)

"28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law." (Romans 3:28,31 NASB)

Love is the manifestation of faith. Love fulfills/ establishes (upholds) the law of Moses.​

Now, start playing your games to make it so they are not talking about the law of Moses so you won't have to admit you are wrong. I see this kind of monkey business over and over and over in these forums.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So now if you would, since I have given you the scripture that says by doing these thing we fulfill the Law of Christ,

Did somebody say faith doesn't fulfill the law of Christ? It wasn't me, so you'll have to direct that topic toward the person who doesn't think so, okay?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Unfortunately, with just about every "viewer" of the law, they only see God's engagements with people. That was never the case.

How so? We know, from Jesus, that the devil is also "moved" into action within man by The Word. See this disclosure in Mark 4:15 and all the other "seed" parables, showing that the devil(s) is moved by The Word, to RESIST same, and does so in MAN.

So, how might we see the Law of God, in His Light? We might see that there is a world with inhabitants that can not be seen, yet these "interact" with and within mankind, and do resist the LAWs of God IN man.

Here, by the Prophet, we see the same disclosure:

Hosea 4:12
My people ask counsel at their stocks, and their staff declareth unto them: for the spirit of whoredoms hath caused them to err, and they have gone a whoring from under their God.

Hosea 5:4
They will not frame their doings to turn unto their God: for the spirit of whoredoms is in the midst of them, and they have not known the Lord.

If anyone views the Laws of God, [which I happen to believe every Word of is fully applicable and will remain so], as only "mancentric" they will continue to miss the entire crux of the Laws. The spirit of whoredoms can never be legal or obedient. That "spirit" can only resist and violate the law, internally, in the midst of people. This active working against the Laws of God transpires within the minds and hearts of everyone who picks up the Law, in whatever "form" they pick it up, to (claimed) obedience or denial of present day applicability.

It is not possible for the tempter, the devil, to be legal or lawful. This "illegal" spirit is engaged within everyone in the form of various temptations, within, and is prompted by THE LAW to do so, within. Paul elaborates quite nicely on this in Romans 7:7-13, showing the operation of that spirit of disobedience in his own flesh, working in it's adverse ways to the LAWs.

I conclude therefore that the tempter can not be legal in any claimed "legal person." I conclude that the tempter can not be "obedient" in any claimed "obedient" person. These things are just not possible. The Law is meant to condemn both that working and worker, the tempter.

Therefore, the just live by faith. They have no basis upon which to stand, legal or obedient, when their "internals" come into LIGHT, because it is not just about "the person" but also about the tempter.

If this is seen, which sight can only come from God in Christ, then all arguments about "the Law" disappear, and we see it's intentions are to expose the lawlessness of the tempter who does operate IN man. In this way the Law is my friendly ALLY. But I would never presume to make the tempter "legal or obedient" in me, as that will not and can not happen.

Any honest believer will and can be "led" into the facts of this matter, and will then be divided from lying hypocrisy.

We are all falsely led to vainly attempt to justify the entirety of ourselves, in every thought, word or deed, and that is just a dead end lying street. The Law exposes the problems of our internals. And yes, it is a present dire problem with everyone. Yet the source of that problem is NOT the person, but the spirit of disobedience, the spirit of whoredoms, who affect every person, believer or not.

Everyone who sees that they still sin, even in thought, should logically connect their own sin to the devil, just as 1 John 3:8 shows us to do. Once this connection is made, you will see the source of all lawlessness and will conclude that it's not YOU as a believer. You will stand only by faith in Jesus Christ. The tempter will not and can not stand, and will instead be "exposed."

This is the Sword of Division that Swings from the Mouth of Jesus, able to DIVIDE, permanently, when the time comes to do so. Until then there IS an edge of that Sword that is against us, and for good reasons.

As it pertains to the Sabbath, this day is a shadow, an image, a typology of that day when we are promised rest from having to "wrestle" with our own built in enemy. This is the "remembrance" of the promise. Whether we remember on a particular day or everyday is entirely irrelevant in the discourses of shadows and typology.

I'm going to ask the moderators to set up your own forum where you can talk about this doctrine of yours.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

you probably disagree because you do not know that you do not have to keep the letter of the law to fulfill and uphold the law of Moses. So, since that not a part of your understanding you instantly think that any and all references to the law of Moses HAS to mean a literal to the letter of the law keeping of the law of Moses.

Don't forget about this, ezrider. If you can actually take the time to 'listen' to what I said here you'll begin to understand you do not have to invent another law to resolve a contradiction that doesn't exist to begin with in this matter of law in the first covenant and law in this New Covenant. I'm betting you won't give it the time of day. You can't. It will mean abandoning your present doctrine. Based on the haughtiness of your posts here I don't believe you have the humility to even consider it.