Scotth1960
Member
Dear friends, People disagree even over this: who are some of the saints of the Church? Most Christians would agree (I should say all Christians would) agree on the NT Saints, St. Peter, St. Andrew, St. John, St. Paul, St. James, St. Thomas, St. Barnabas, St. Timothy, St. Titus, the Virgin Mary, St. Joseph, St. John the Baptist, and so on. But when it comes to specific pre-schism (pre-1054 AD) and post-schism (post-1054 AD) saints, we differ. I referred to Saint Photios of the Catholic Church. This refers to the fact that the same Catholic Church existed intact and without schism up until 1054 AD, and the Orthodox consider Photios the Great of Constantinople to be a Saint of Christ's Church. But there is difference here over the contentious Filioque issue. A later Christian thinker, Thomas Aquinas, considered it necessary unto salvation, in his work "Contra Errores Graecorum" (sic) for a Christian to believe in the Filioque. The Orthodox Church disagrees with this strongly, and pronounces an anathema on anyone who accepts the Filioque. Is this correct, then, that the Roman Church pronounces and anathema upon anyone who rejects the Filioque? Thus, a doctrinal impasse, which remains unhealed until (unto) this day. While Athenagoras and Paul VI lifted the official anathemas in 1965 AD, this controversy remains unsettled, and there has been no ecumenical council that both the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church, and the Oriental Orthodox Church, have accepted as the solution for all Christians for the Filioque controversy. And then we must include the Protestants and the Pentecostals, and the nondenominational people. What do they feel about the Filioque: for, against, or indfifferent to?
Even as followers of papal Rome may stand in their unique doctrine and not consider Photios to be a saint, so followers of Orthodox Constantinople and the other Orthodox patriarchates and the Orthodox Church do not consider Thomas Aquinas to be a saint. Nor Francis of Assisi, and other post-schism Catholics. And the Catholics may not consider the Orthodox saints to be saints of the Roman Catholic Church. All this over one little word, FILIOQUE, in LATIN.
This is where the sainthood issue comes in. Perhaps this is all indifferent to God, and God certainly will solve this problem for all people in one day. Until that day comes, there is still a schism. This is sad, and would that it were healed in respect to the revealed Truth of Christ. Many of these Catholic and Orthodox people are people (men and women) of piety. But because of one doctrine, FILIOQUE, there is a questioning of sainthood, because a true saint would not believe in a false doctrine regarding the Trinity. Some consider it a false doctrine regarding the Trinity to REJECT the FILIOQUE; and others consider it a false doctrine regarding the Trinity to ACCEPT the FILIOQUE.
Well, I find it not yet possible to say a final goodbye to you, as you all are raising questions and making statements that could possible be discussed by all of us. We may not agree regarding the FILIOQUE matter, but I feel this matter is more significant than all of the VERY QUESTIONABLE MATERIAL regarding the alleged "END TIMES" (sic) in the other section of CF. This end times speculation regarding Daniel, Revelation, etc. is MOSTLY that: MERE HUMAN, FALLIBLE SPECULATION. I had wished to take a break from responding to any of you, or making new posts. I will just try to make my posts minimal in number, as I can't find a good answer to all of your objections, or respond appropriately when any of you make unkind slander against my words as being a "rant", as if to imply some bad opinions about me. I don't take everything you say personally, but generally I find I am growing disgusted in all the rancor between Catholics and Protestants in the whole Catholic and Protestant debates. And this rancor carries over into other debates, Eastern Orthodox with Catholic, or Eastern Orthodox with Protestant. Personally, I'm just a fairly-well read Protestant, who is coming to agree with Eastern Orthodox opinions, though I am not formally an Eastern Orthodox Christian yet myself. Sacraments are necessary, and I have only received the sacrament of confession with an Orthodox priest so far, but nothing else more besides that so far. I find the best defense of Orthodoxy is just those Orthodox Christians who pray in an Orthodox Church. Going there would change as many minds as God works in who would experience the beauty of holiness of Eastern Orthodox worship. May God save us all. .... In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington'
Even as followers of papal Rome may stand in their unique doctrine and not consider Photios to be a saint, so followers of Orthodox Constantinople and the other Orthodox patriarchates and the Orthodox Church do not consider Thomas Aquinas to be a saint. Nor Francis of Assisi, and other post-schism Catholics. And the Catholics may not consider the Orthodox saints to be saints of the Roman Catholic Church. All this over one little word, FILIOQUE, in LATIN.
This is where the sainthood issue comes in. Perhaps this is all indifferent to God, and God certainly will solve this problem for all people in one day. Until that day comes, there is still a schism. This is sad, and would that it were healed in respect to the revealed Truth of Christ. Many of these Catholic and Orthodox people are people (men and women) of piety. But because of one doctrine, FILIOQUE, there is a questioning of sainthood, because a true saint would not believe in a false doctrine regarding the Trinity. Some consider it a false doctrine regarding the Trinity to REJECT the FILIOQUE; and others consider it a false doctrine regarding the Trinity to ACCEPT the FILIOQUE.
Well, I find it not yet possible to say a final goodbye to you, as you all are raising questions and making statements that could possible be discussed by all of us. We may not agree regarding the FILIOQUE matter, but I feel this matter is more significant than all of the VERY QUESTIONABLE MATERIAL regarding the alleged "END TIMES" (sic) in the other section of CF. This end times speculation regarding Daniel, Revelation, etc. is MOSTLY that: MERE HUMAN, FALLIBLE SPECULATION. I had wished to take a break from responding to any of you, or making new posts. I will just try to make my posts minimal in number, as I can't find a good answer to all of your objections, or respond appropriately when any of you make unkind slander against my words as being a "rant", as if to imply some bad opinions about me. I don't take everything you say personally, but generally I find I am growing disgusted in all the rancor between Catholics and Protestants in the whole Catholic and Protestant debates. And this rancor carries over into other debates, Eastern Orthodox with Catholic, or Eastern Orthodox with Protestant. Personally, I'm just a fairly-well read Protestant, who is coming to agree with Eastern Orthodox opinions, though I am not formally an Eastern Orthodox Christian yet myself. Sacraments are necessary, and I have only received the sacrament of confession with an Orthodox priest so far, but nothing else more besides that so far. I find the best defense of Orthodoxy is just those Orthodox Christians who pray in an Orthodox Church. Going there would change as many minds as God works in who would experience the beauty of holiness of Eastern Orthodox worship. May God save us all. .... In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington'