Yep, Everything you find written in the Bible God truly means. Even this,
Mat 10:33
but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.
So then, if this means denying entrance into heaven from one who used to believe, Jesus contradicted Himself. Is that your position??
Of course I did.
But your posts do include the idea that one who has believed, has received eternal life, but HAS removed themselves from union with Christ will perish. Where did Jesus make that condition in John 10:28? He didn't. Those He said will never perish are simply recipients of eternal life. No conditions on the recipients:
1. no condition to keep on believing
2. no condition to avoid any specific lifestyles
3. no conditions period.
Now, Does the Bible tell us to keep believing? Yes. But not to maintain salvation.
Does the Bible tell us to avoid specific lifestyles? Yes. But not to maintain salvation.
Right, they will never perish because He is the source of their life. Left to themselves, they have no life without Him.
But this contradicts what Jesus said. He said recipients WILL NEVER PERISH. You've added the scenario of some recipients being able to leave Him, and perish.
But Jesus doesn't give anyone the right to believe that. Because His promise is to recipients, ALL recipients, not just some who fulfill certain conditions, as you've added extrabiblically.
Nope. None of His sheep will perish.
You've repeatedly made the point that IF any of His sheep leave Him, they will perish, which is contrary to your statement here.
So, which is it? Can any of His sheep, for any reason, perish?
Some think they are His sheep because they said a prayer, or were baptized, or believed something one time in their life. But we know that His sheep hear Him and follow Him.
I don't really care what "some think". That's not the issue. The ONLY issue is what Jesus promised to those He gives eternal life to.
What is quite clear from Scripture is this:
1. WHEN a person believes in Christ, He gives them eternal life. John 5:24 and 10:28
2. When a person believes in Christ, they are called His sheep. John 10:9ff
3. So, ALL who have believed HAVE BEEN given eternal life. Obvious conclusion.
4. The Bible is clear that some will believe for a while and then fall away. Luke 8:13
5. However, because they did believe, they were given eternal life. This makes them a recipient of eternal life.
6. John 10:28 says recipients (I give them...) of eternal life will never perish.
Yet, in spite of these facts, the view continues that some recipients of eternal life CAN perish, and DO. In total disregard of Jesus' promise.
How is that faith in Christ, and in His words.
Right, they will not perish because He gives them life. If they leave Him then He can no longer give them life and they will perish.
He ALREADY GAVE them life. John 5:24. WHEN they believe, they HAVE eternal life. So your conclusion is false. No one can perish who has been given eternal ife.
I suggest John 10:28 hasn't been read correctly til yet.
The single issue here is that recipients of eternal life (those Jesus GIVES eternal life) will never perish.
I continue to see in your posts the idea that recipients can somehow (as yet NOT shown from Scripture) remove themselves from union with Christ (an impossibility from Eph 1:13,14) and therefore, perish.
But Jesus doesn't give anyone room for that idea. He SAID recipients (that would be all of them, since He didn't specific "some", "many", or any other limitations) will never perish.
Yet, it seems your view continues to push the idea that some recipients will perish. In total disagreement with what Jesus SAID.
Right, only His sheep will never perish. He never promised that to those who are not His sheep. We can tell the difference between His sheep and those who are not.
Is there any Scripture that speaks of His sheep EVER becoming not His sheep?
His promise is to sheep. I do not see "recipients" in any verses in the Bible. Could you underline them for me?
This is nothing more than playing word games. When Jesus said "I give them..." that makes them recipients. Are you not fluent in English? I ask that in respect, because everyone fluent in English KNOWS that when someone RECEIVES something, they are RECIPIENTS of something.
Those who never believed will be in the same place as those who have and then turned from it.
In total disagreement with what Jesus said in John 10:28. He said recipients (those He gives eternal life) will never perish.
2Pe 2:21
For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.
I reject the notion that Peter was contradicting what Jesus said.
Still not seeing the whole "recipients" word.
Well then, I guess there's no use in further discussion. I have erroneously assumed those who post here are fluent in English. I apologize for my assumption.
I have tried searching for it, and come up empty. I do know that He promises His sheep eternal life and never to perish.
What He said specfically is this: "I give them eternal life, and they will never perish."
So, the only way to prove that a saved person can ultimately perish is to prove FROM THE BIBLE that some of those He gives eternal life will perish. Which goes DIRECTLY AGAINST what He said. So, good luck with that.
Jesus gives life to His sheep. I am not sure why we keep having to discuss this point.
Only because you've continued to push the notion that some of those He gives eternal life will perish. That's why.
