Share! Jesus in the Holy Quran & Muhammad in the Holy Bi

[Brother]

I am Muslim who has many Christian friends including ministers and priests. I like here to build a bridge of love between the great followers of the greatest two religions Islam and Christianity. I as many Muslims and Christians like to find much relationship between both. We have to build our understanding about others. There should be discussions between them. A Muslim cannot understand Christianity well by another Muslim but he should understand it through a Christian. A Christian cannot understand Islam well by another Christian but by a Muslim. That what I realized when I met the Christian priests and pastors. Many things they ignore in Islam as many things I ignore in Christianity!
I realized mostly that a Muslim is Muslim just because his parents have taught him what to believe. Similarly I found that with my Christian brothers and so with the Hindus and Buddhists, and all other faiths. This question is always confuse me that what I am if I was born to Hindu parents. The truth to most of once and we us is what we have inherited it. The life is only do not know exactly what would happen to us in the grave. The solution I think is to ask the Creator of the heaven and earth for guidance. Secondly, is to search with neutrality (as you can) where is the truth.
Here comes why I am here. Before every thing I am here not to attack or offend my Christian brothers. I am here to create the tools of understanding. Why, How and What, we can ask both Islam and Christianity.
Please remember that we Muslims love Jesus too much. We always revere him as a true Prophet who was truly sent by God. We believe in his miracles. We believe that he was born by a virgin mother while some Christians (as some Anglican Bishops) do not believe in that. We believe that he was the last Prophet sent to the children of Israel. All of us Muslims and Christians worship the same One God the Creator and we all belong to Abraham the father of the believers. Jesus is mentioned in the Holy Quran as Muhammad is mentioned in the Holy Bible.
I hope we start our discussion to reason the basics of the faith as in Isaiah “Let us reason together.†Again and again I am not an enemy but a lover of truth. Even if you would like to consider me as an enemy, do not forget “Love your enemy†as I love you all and all the human being on this earth. So, I respect you all and all of the religions.
So, what are the topics can we discuss (not to debate or argue)?

 

[Brother]

Sorrry the complete form of the topic is: & Muhammad in the Holy Bible

 

[Gary]

If you are here to discuss the truth, that is great. Then you will also know that Muhammad is NOT in the Bible. So this thread will be short.

As you correctly said, a Muslim is unlikely to understand Christianity. Therefore, if you want to understand the Bible, ask us. We will then explain that Muhammad is not in the Bible.

Secondly, your understanding of Jesus is incorrect. How would Muhammad know anything about Jesus? Also, please explain WHICH miracles are in the Quran. Are there any parables about Jesus in the Quran? Do you know that Jesus taught in parables?

Regards

P.S. I would like to discuss three topics.
(1) Is Muhammad a true prophet of God?
(2) Has the Quran been altered?
(3) Is the god of Islam the same as the true God of Christianity? If yes, please explain how you come to that conclusion.

 

[evanman]

The fundamental beliefs of "christianity" are:

Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

Jesus Christ died on the cross at Calvary and was resurrected from the dead.

By His death and resurrection we can be certain of forgiveness of sins, and that we are reconciled to God!

Try now to build a bridge between Islam and "Christianity", if you can!

 

[Gary]

Biblical Christianity explained to Muslims

To read these topics, click on this link below:
http://www.biblicalchristianity.freeser ... /index.htm

.

 

[Heidi]

Hi Gary,
Where did you find out about Mohammed's life? I have read very conflicting things. Of course, the Muslims say he can do no wrong. How do we know which accounts are the truth?

 

[Gary]

Hi Heidi

The best place to find out about Muhammad is in the early Islamic writings.

These are:
(1) the Qur’an
(2) Sunnah collections of Ibn Ishaq’s Sira
(3) al-Tabari’s History
(4) Bukhari’s Hadith
(5) Muslim’s Hadith

Craig Winn has spent time and put these books together, in chronological
sequence. It tells a shocking story about Muhammad.

Here is the ALL of the book, online:
http://www.prophetofdoom.net/toc.html

http://www.prophetofdoom.net/toc.html
.

 

[Brother]

Gary Bee,
I thank you for your concern. You said,
“Then you will also know that Muhammad is NOT in the Bible.†you reasoned that by saying, “As you correctly said, a Muslim is unlikely to understand Christianity. Therefore, if you want to understand the Bible, ask us. We will then explain that Muhammad is not in the Bible.â€Â
I respect your view and might be it is true. According to my humble knowledge, I heard Muhammad is mentioned in the Bible, and may be it is false unless if there is a proof for that.
Dear friend, I do not think the way of reasoning is right. That because a Jew can tell you, “A Christian is unlikely to understand Judaism. Therefore, if you want to understand the Old Testament, ask us, the Jews. We will then explain that Jesus is not in the Old Testament.†Believe me brother that is what the Jews do against the Christians.
My friend Gary Bee I appreciate your jealous and love for your faith. It proves to me how much you are sincere for what you believe as I believe there are many Hindus and Muslims are sincere for their faith. I hoped if you are more open minded like the good people of your country, South Africa. I have just come back from there 2 months ago. I stayed at Durban for study and visited your beautiful city, Cape Town, which is heaven on this earth. I hope to accept my advise as a brother.
However, let us to leave Muhammad for a moment because it seems that you even do not want to know about him. You are not a person that who would like to know for examining what is truth and what is not. You are a Christian just because your parents had taught you it is the truth. Believe me if you knew that the truth lies with the Jews you would not be able to be a Jew. I am too upset from fanatic Muslims and Christians. If you are not a fanatic you would rather say, “Where did the Bible speak about Muhammad. I know it is not. Please show me where it is!†So, if I speak with you about Islamic subjects, I will waste my time because you are not seeking the information and knowledge, but you seek the argument. Thus, I like to discuss about Christianity to understand it closely more and more.
I am born as a Muslim and my parents are Muslims. I fear that I am Muslim just because I am born like that. I know if I am born in West I will be Christian or Atheist while if I am born in China I will be Buddhist. So, I do not want my faith as only a heritage. I want to find evidences and proves for any belief to follow. I do not want to believe blindly. I am from Yemen and in our country we do not have Christians. We have Jews and Hindus who live brotherly with us. I need to understand what is Christianity? If I found the proofs of its truthfulness, I will be a Christian. Man should be humble to the truth wherever it is. I hope to understand Christianity well by the brothers of this site. By the way, I have read much about Christianity but I do not want just to rely on it. I do not want to understand Christianity only from a Muslim but also from a Christian. Beside this aim, I would like also to make at least, brotherhood between Muslims and Christians out of hatred and enmity. I said these words to understand my position.

Dear Evanman,
I thank you very much for your brief answer of what is Christianity. These words I have read it in many books. You have to remember that I am a Muslim. I raised up in another belief, so I find difficulty to get what exactly you mean by these words. Please put yourself in my side. How could you understand words if you are born as a Muslim. Believe me also, the Hindu would understand it differently. To get what I mean exactly, let me give you an example of understanding God in Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. God in Hinduism is One God but He is many. So they worship about 300,000,000 gods. The animal can personify God, the star can personify God, the idol can personify God, the man can personify God … and so on. For the Christians God is also One but He is three. For the Jews and Muslims God is only One and not more than one. The definition of God is different from religion to another. God in Hinduism can incarnate in any form and he can be any thing of His creation. He can be rat, he can be elephant and he can be man. God in Christianity can be man. While in Judaism and Islam, God is absolute of perfection. He is the Creator and not the creation. He is not a man, animal nor idol.
So, the problem lies on the mentality and the definition of the things. Therefore, when we discuss you have to remember that we are different in our mentality. To make our discussion benefit we just need to understand the mentality of each other. I need to now what is the Christian mean when he says something and vice versa. Please do not think that I am trying to complicate the things. But I am trying to show you how much it is important to understand each other.
Regarding, your saying,
“Try now to build a bridge between Islam and "Christianity", if you can!â€Â
Many Muslims and Christian misunderstand me when I say we should build a brige. They think that I mean to mix the two faiths as to be one faith. This is not what I meant. I mean by a “bridge†that connection based on love, respect, tolerance with understanding. For example, rather than to believe that Hinduism is false 100%, we should believe that it contains some truth like the good morals and the belief in God the Creator, whatever the name which they give Him. We should consider the Hindus as brothers rather than enemies. We should respect their faith rather than mock their faith.
Believe me brother if I have a power, I would build an organization where all the religions gathered in one table to solve atheism and immorality, and encouraging their followers to love each other.

I thank all of the brothers here and I would like to make our next messages more beneficial. Please brother Evanman explain to me more deeply about Christianity. I suggest, if you would like, to explain what have you said. As an example, when you said that you believe Jesus is the Christ and Son of God. I hope to explain what does the word “Christ†mean? and what do you mean by Son of God exactly? What is the universally belief and what is your own understanding. Another thing I hope to know what is your sect to understand what does your sect believe?

Thanking you . . .
Your brother in humanity

 

[evanman]

To the one named "Brother"

Thank you for your enquiry.

The Title "Christ" comes from the Greek word "Christos", which is the Greek form of the Hebrew word "Moshiach" (Messiah in English). Christ--Messiah means "Annointed One". He is the one that God has appointed to be judge and deliverer, the one through whom all things would be restored to the way things were originally ordained to be before the disobedience of Adam and the rest of Adam's offspring.

Jesus is also the Son of God. Jesus was actually fathered by Almighty God, NOT by sexual intercourse but by an act of God, by the Holy Spirit moving in the womb of Mary, the Virgin of Nazareth, causing her to conceive. However In the Hebrew Scriptures some 1000 tears before His birth, we read the following:

Pr 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

So we see that the one that created all things had a son even then, a thing which even the Jews themselves overlook when they read their own scriptures!

It is for this reason we honour Jesus Christ above all other men, for the Holy Scriptures reveal to us that He was more than a prophet, He was also divine in nature.

This infuriated the Judeans who could not accept that Jesus and the Father could be one when they always assumed that only the Father (God) was one!

Joh 5:10 The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.
11 He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.
12 Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk?
13 And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place.
14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
15 The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.
16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
17 ¶ But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

 

[Gary]

Brother: However, let us to leave Muhammad for a moment
because it seems that you even do not want to know about him.

Gary: Why leave Muhammad? I have studied Muhammad for 4 years now.

Brother: You are not a person that who would like to know
for examining what is truth and what is not.

Gary: I look for truth. That is why I find Jesus to be that truth.
I have found Muhammad to be a false prophet.
I know that from the Quran and the Hadith which I have studied.

Brother: You are a Christian just because your parents had taught you it is the truth.

Gary: No, wrong. I was atheist.
I rejected Christianity for over 25 years.
I have studied Islam, Judaism and Christianity. I came to Christian faith in Nov 1999.

Brother: Believe me if you knew that the truth lies with the Jews
you would not be able to be a Jew.

Gary: And why would that be? I have studied Judaism.
Do you realise that Jesus was a Jew? Do you know that His disciples were Jews?
Do you know that all the authors of the New Testament (except Luke)
were Jews?

Brother: I am too upset from fanatic Muslims and Christians.

Gary: I am not upset with Muslim "fanatics".
I realise that they actually follow Muhammad's example.

Brother: If you are not a fanatic you would rather say,
“Where did the Bible speak about Muhammad. I know it is not.
Please show me where it is!†So, if I speak with you about Islamic
subjects, I will waste my time because you are not seeking the
information and knowledge, but you seek the argument.
Thus, I like to discuss about Christianity to understand it closely
more and more.

Gary: I have studied Islam and Muhammad for 4 years.
IF you are seeking more information about Christianity, did you
go to the links I gave you?
Why do you need to speak about Christianity? You have said
two contradictory things already.
(1) You said:

"I am Muslim who has many Christian friends including
ministers and priests. "

(2) You also said:

"I am from Yemen and in our country we do not have
Christians. We have Jews and Hindus who live brotherly with us.
I need to understand what is Christianity? If I found the proofs of its truthfulness,
I will be a Christian. Man should be humble to the truth wherever it is.
I hope to understand Christianity well by the brothers of this site.
By the way, I have read much about Christianity but I do not
want just to rely on it.
I do not want to understand Christianity only from a Muslim but also from a Christian."

Now which is it? Do you have Christians in Yemen or not? Have those many friends,
ministers and priests been unable to explain Christianity to you?
How "many" is that many?
If they are friends, when and where do you speak to them?

Also, which Muslim sect are you? Sunni or Shi'a?
Yemen has about 55% Sunni sect and 42% Shi'a sect.

 

[Quath]

I am born as a Muslim and my parents are Muslims. I fear that I am Muslim just because I am born like that. I know if I am born in West I will be Christian or Atheist while if I am born in China I will be Buddhist. So, I do not want my faith as only a heritage. I want to find evidences and proves for any belief to follow. I do not want to believe blindly.

So how do you want to find out the truth? Do you want people's personal experiences? If so, every religion has them. The same is true for stories of miracles and faith healing.

Do you want it based on philosophy? If so assume what you want your god(s) to be and then find the religion that preaches that view of god(s). There are many religions out there and new ones waiting to be created.

If you want it based on science, you will have a hard time. Objectively, science does not support any religion. I know some here will disagree, but they see science as supporting their religion. But if you go to other religious websites, they also think science supports their version as well.

If you want consistency, I don't know of a religion that has it. Christianity has over 33,000 denominations and they disagree on what is heaven / hell, how one is saved, rights of women, etc. Islam is starting to fragment. It is younger than Christianity and it will take awhile to get the same increase in denominations.

But if you want a simple test. Just ask any god to reveal themself to you. Shout it to the sky or pray at night. Then see if you find any answers.

Quath

 

[Brother]

Gary Bee,
There is no contradictions in my words. Sorry you have misunderstood me just because I did not explain. At my country there are no Christians –I think you know that-. My Christians friends were in South Africa. I knew even a Lutheran pastor, two Catholic priests, a former British Catholic bishop, a Baptist minister and a former Pentecostal minister (or you can say Born Again as you are) but all of these Church leaders are in Durban and not in Yemen. Two years ago when I was in Saudi Arabia, I spoke with Mrs. Sue Watson, a former American Pentecostal (Born Again) minister and missionary. Now she is a Muslim.

Let me answer some points which you have raised. You have said,
“I look for truth. That is why I find Jesus to be that truth. I have found Muhammad to be a false prophet.â€Â
That what I hope to know it. Firstly, I would like to discuss How did you find Jesus to be that truth? After we finish this topic we can then discuss How did you find Muhammad to be a false prophet? Let us to discuss it one by one.

You said,
“No, wrong. I was atheist.â€Â
You brought up as a Christian from Christian parents. It is easy if you lost your parents teachings for 25 years to come back again. If a Hindu told me that he was 50 years atheist but later he found Hinduism, I would not surprise because his parents are Hindus and his society are so.

Again and again I say to you, believe me if you knew that the truth lies with the Jews
you would not be able to be a Jew. You understand well what I mean. Your fanaticism is very clear through your saying,
“I am not upset with Muslim "fanatics".
I realize that they actually follow Muhammad's example.â€Â

Dear Evanman,
Yes that is what I call it successful discussion! Evanman I appreciate you. I thanked you for simplifying the answers. Many others they complicate the things.

Regarding your saying,
“So we see that the one that created all things had a son even then, a thing which even the Jews themselves overlook when they read their own scriptures!â€Â
The Jews do not believe that God has a son but they believe that he has many sons (this is explained down). To the Jews Pr 30:4 is not speaks about Jesus. I opened Adam Clark commentary and look what I found:
“[What is his son's name] Some copies of the Septuagint have h ti onoma toiv tiknoio autou; "Or the name of his sons;" meaning, I suppose, the holy angels, called his saints or holy ones, ver. 3.â€Â

Regarding “the Messiah or Christ,â€Â
Muslims recognize Jesus as Messiah and we in Arabic call him Maseeh (By the way Arabic, Hebrew and Aramaic –the language of Jesus- are sister languages called Semitic languages). What I know about this word that it is not unique title for Jesus, there were many Messiahs and it is common title among the Jews. Any deliverer, king, high priest and prophet is called Messiah which is symbolically means the Chosen one of God. But which is still confuse me is that if Jesus is God, then how can he be “Anointed one of God� Was God anointed by himself? Please explain it to me.
The other question which I have to ask, to understand your meaning properly, is what do you mean by saying, “Jesus was fathered by Almighty God.� What does the word “FATHERED†means to you. Because what I know the title “Father†which is given to God, is only a symbolic language for love, and God is not only Father of Jesus but of all believers. All believers are called “sons†of God†whether he is Jesus, Moses or David. Am I right or not? If not, please explain to me.
Another question, which I cannot understand it until today is that what do you mean when you say that God is One, although you believe he had a son and that son is God also. For example, if you are a man and you begat a son, he will be another man. You and your son are not one man but two men. If you and your son are in a room, I cannot say there is only one man in the room, unless if I lie.

I wait the answer of the three questions, which are:
1) Is God anointed by God?
2) What do mean by “Fathered�
3) What do mean by One God when you believe He had a son?
Adding to it another question, what is your sect?

Please brother do not be offended! I do not mean to attack your faith. Please understand my view! Because these are the questions which you would ask if you are born as a Muslim or Jew.

 

[evanman]

To the one who calls himself "Brother":

I wait the answer of the three questions, which are:
1) Is God anointed by God?
2) What do mean by “Fathered�
3) What do mean by One God when you believe He had a son?
Adding to it another question, what is your sect?

Is God annointed by God? Let us consider what the word "Messiah" refers to in the case of Jesus Christ (Y'shua HaMoshiach). Yes, it is true that there are quite a number of messiahs in the Holy Bible, Jesus is The Christ the Holy one of Israel which is a title given to only ONE person--the one who would come to Judge the entire world and bring into being the restitution of all things. This means that Jesus Christ has a particular "annointing" upon Him that no other man in history has ever had or ever will have. This sets Him apart from all others.

This means that the Son has received this annointing from the Father.

What do I mean by Fathered?

The Holy scriptures declare Jesus Christ to be the Son of God. He had a woman for a mother and God for a Father. He was begotten by The Almighty God.

What do I mean by One God when I believe that He had a Son?

The Son is an eternal being, He has always existed, and always will. The Son and the Father are ONE God!

Some things are difficult to explain in simple terms as they are complex. i often use an illustration from creation. In creation there are so many intances of things being different yet the same.

H2O, for example, is the formula for Ice, Steam and Water. Three different things--yet all ONE thing!

God has two types of sons.

He has ONE Son that He Himself begat, and he has many other sons that he has adopted!

 

[Gary]

Brother: I knew even a Lutheran pastor, two Catholic priests,
a former British Catholic bishop, a Baptist minister and a former
Pentecostal minister (or you can say Born Again as you are)
but all of these Church leaders are in Durban and not in Yemen

Gary: Name them please. I will contact them and see why they
could not explain Christianity to you. Names are OK; e-mail addresses
will help. Thanks. You say they are personal friends so giving me their
names should be no issue. You can e-mail me at gary_bee_za@yahoo.com

Brother: Two years ago when I was in Saudi Arabia, I spoke with
Mrs. Sue Watson, a former American Pentecostal (Born Again) minister
and missionary. Now she is a Muslim.

Gary: Sure. I have spoken to many former Muslims.
Want some e-mail addresses?

Brother: I would like to discuss How did you find Jesus to be that truth?

Gary: Because I have come to know Jesus personally.
I have a personal relationship with Him through the Holy Spirit.
Do you know Allah, the god of Islam? If you do, HOW do you know him?

Brother: How did you find Muhammad to be a false prophet?

Gary: I have already told you that. Did you read the links?
They are at the bottom of this page.

Brother: You said, “No, wrong. I was atheist.â€Â
You brought up as a Christian from Christian parents.

Gary: Wrong again. My parents were not and are not Christians.

Brother: It is easy if you lost your parents teachings for 25 years
to come back again.

Gary: How do you know that?
Anyway, I have already shown your assumptions to be wrong about
my former beliefs and those of my parents.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gary: “I am not upset with Muslim "fanatics".
I realize that they actually follow Muhammad's example.

What part of that do you not understand?

 

[Gary]

I am still waiting for a discussion on:

(1) Is Muhammad a true prophet of God?
(2) Has the Quran been altered?
(3) Is the god of Islam the same as the true God of Christianity?
If yes, please explain how you come to that conclusion.

 

[Brother]

Dear friend, Evanman,
You said, “The Holy scriptures declare Jesus Christ to be the Son of God. He had a woman for a mother and God for a Father. He was begotten by The Almighty God.â€Â
Also the scriptures declared Adam to be the Son of God (Read Luke 3 : 38). The mere different between Jesus and Adam that Adam was existed without a woman/mother. If we would chose a god-man, Adam will be the right person. Never mind, God is not a human being.

Dear friend, Evanman,
More than four hundred years after Mary death, a group of priests called the virgin Mary “Mother of God,†where we hear this shocking title until today. Is God has a mother? Is God born of a woman? What does that mean? Is the Creator of this huge universe limited in a womb as a baby? Just you have to visit a hospital, look at the child when just he has been born! Notice the dirt of the mother’s blood all over the body of the child! Open your ear to hear the cry of that baby! Notice the umbilical cord which just has been cut with the child birth! Remember it was supplying the baby feed during his lifetime in the world of his mother’s womb! Again and again remember that the baby has just come from a small dark womb! Now suppose that you would say to the nurse that this child is God! “Ridiculous!†the nurse ragingly will say. She will continue asking you a serious question, “Are you mad? This child is born of a woman. How can he be compared with God?†She is right, is not it? The nurse lips agree with the Bible lips (Old Testament). What did the Bible say about that incident? Come on! Pick a Bible and turn its pages to the book of Job, chapter 25, verse 4! Please read it loudly in front of your family after you call their attention that they are hearing one of the wisest words ever their ears to hear! The verse says, “How then can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?â€Â

Regarding the “Messiahs,â€Â
Is not it contradicted within itself! There are many who are titled as “Messiahs†but Jesus is the only one who has this title!!! I did not get what do you mean? I know also as the word Messiah is not unique also the word holy one is not unique. Angels, saints and prophets are also holy ones. However, this was not my question.
Is God anointed by God? You believe that the Father is God and Jesus is God, but they are not two Gods but one God. Then you continue your faith that God anointed God! Did he anoint himself? A sister example of this confusion, as I feel, is when you say that God sent Jesus who is also God. So God sent God. God sent himself? If a king sends his ambassador to any country, does that mean that the ambassador is the king himself!!! Think if the Ambassador or Minister claimed to be the king himself! It would be there two kings. A kingdom should ruled only by one king and not more than that. Similarly the world is ruled by One God and no other one besides Him if it is not that, then there would be a collapse. This is a common sense as you know.

Regarding your example which you explained,
“H2O, for example, is the formula for Ice, Steam and Water. Three different things--yet all ONE thing!â€Â
Again and again I remind you, friend! Like this example may it convince those who are born in believing in the Trinity and seeks to justify it. But If you used neutrality you will feel that this example is far from understanding God oneness. the water is not counted thing. You cannot say I have two waters or three waters but you would say I have two litters or three. Secondly, this example cannot prove what you want to use it for. Because I can apply it between us. I mean to say that if there is a Black man, a White man, and colored man, “three different things -- yet all ONE thing†that they are human beings and males but they are not ONE MAN. They are THREE MEN. The dust is formula for Earth, Jupiter and Neptune. “Three different thingsâ€â€all ONE thing.†That the Earth is planet, Jupiter is planet and Neptune is planet but they are not one planet. They are planet and planet and planet = THREE PLANETS.
This how the Trinity is. The Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Ghost is God. God and God and God = THREE GODS.
See brother it is too clear. We do not need to twist the fact. God is only One and not more than that. This is the great teaching of all the Prophets.

The last point I have to know is what do you mean by saying,
“He has ONE Son that He Himself begat, and he has many other sons that he has adopted!â€Â
I did not understand what do you mean by begat and adopted here!! If you tell me that a man begat a son, it will be understood as a sexual act while if you said adopted, it will be understood as out of that act. Please explain what do mean exactly?

 

[Gary]

I am still waiting for a discussion on:

(1) Is Muhammad a true prophet of God?
(2) Has the Quran been altered?
(3) Is the god of Islam the same as the true God of Christianity?
If yes, please explain how you come to that conclusion.
(4) Also, which Muslim sect are you? Sunni or Shi'a?


P.S. Jesus taught: "Love your enemies". Where did Muhammad teach this? Where is this teaching in the Quran?

Regards

 

[Gary]

Adam and Jesus

In reference to your rather long post about Adam and Jesus.... please read this. It explains very carefully the difference between the man from dust (Adam) and the man from heaven (our Lord Jesus Christ):
Link: The Man of Dust, the Man from Heaven

The Son of God

In reference to your misunderstanding about the term The Son of God, please read this link:
Link: The Son of God - The Messiah, Spirit and Word

Al-Masihu Isa - God’s Anointed Messiah

Also, please read this to understand better the term "Messiah" in both the Quran and the Bible.
Link: Al-Masihu Isa - God’s Anointed Messiah

John Gilchrist

These links should be of interest because they are written by John Gilchrist, a man who totally debunked every word written by a man you would have heard about in Durban, Deedat.
See more of his work in rebutting Deedat's rants:

Link: Books written by John Gilchrist

Enjoy!

I can get you into contact with John if you want. He has many ex-Muslim contacts as well.



The Only Begotten Son of God

Lastly, Muslims continue to misunderstand the term "The Only Begotten Son of God". This may help you understand better....
Link: The Only Begotten Son of God

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[willow the wip]

God in the Bible Vs the Qur'an

DISAGREE.......

the quran can never be accepterble to a Christian.

God in the Bible


BIBLE:

"And God said, let us make a man in our image, after our likeness."

Genesis 1:26


God in the Qur'an


Qur'an:

"Say He is God, the One and Only God, the Eternal, Absolute. He begets not, nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him!"

Qur'an112:1-4


BIBLE:

"For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He RESTED, and was REFRESHED"

Exo. 31:17


Qur'an:

"We have created the heavens and the earth, and everything between them in six days, and no fatigue touched us. "

Qur'an 50:38



BIBLE:

6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.

6:6 And the LORD repented that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Genesis 6:5-6


Qur'an:

"With Him (God) are the keys to all secrets; none knows them except He. He knows everything on land and in the sea. Not a leaf falls without His knowledge. Nor is there a grain in the depths of the soil. Nor is there anything wet or dry, that is not recorded in a profound record.

Qur'an 6:59



BIBLE:

"With the pure you show yourself pure and with the crooked you show yourself perverse" 2Samuel 22:27




Qur'an:

"O you who believe stand out firmly for justice as witnesses to God even as against yourselves or your parents or your kin." Qur'an 4:135




BIBLE:

"And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the son of man had built. And the Lord said, 'Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they can do; and nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them. Come, let us go down; and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of the earth, and they left off building the city. Therefore its name was called bable, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth; and from there the Lord scattered them abroad over the face of all the earth."

Genesis 11:5-9.



Qur'an:[49:13]

"O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant. "




BIBLE:

"We conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." Roman 3:28



Qur'an:

"Do men think that they will be left alone on saying we believe and they will not be tested? But, we did test those before them and God will certainly know those who are true from those who are false." Qur'an 29:1




BIBLE:

[Psalm 13:1] How long will you forget me, O Lord.



Qur'an:

He said, "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord in a record. My Lord never errs, nor does He forget. " [20:52]


BIBLE:

AWAKE, WHY DO YOU SLEEP, O LORD ? [Psalm 4:23]

Then the Lord AWAKED AS ONE OUT OF SLEEP, and like a mighty man that shouts by reason of wine. [Psalm 4:23]



Qur'an:

GOD: there is no other god besides Him, the Living, the Eternal. Never a moment of unawareness or slumber overtakes Him. [2:255]



BIBLE:

God said to Jesus, "You are my son today I have begotten you" [Heb.5:5]

God said to David, "You are my son today I have begotten you"[Psalm2:7]




Qur'an:

[112:1] Proclaim, "He is the One and only GOD. "The Absolute GOD. "Never did He beget. Nor was He begotten.

[19:88-95] They said, "The Most Gracious has begotten a son"! You have uttered a gross blasphemy. The heavens are about to shatter, the earth is about to tear asunder, and the mountains are about to crumble. Because they claim that the Most Gracious has begotten a son. It is not befitting the Most Gracious that He should beget a son.Every single one in the heavens and the earth is a servant of the Most Gracious. He has encompassed them, and has counted them one by one.All of them will come before Him on the Day of Resurrection as individuals.




BIBLE:

The Lord said, "I will break my covenant with them" [Levi. 26:44]

You said O Lord: My covenant will I not break..

38 But you cast off and abhorred, you have been wroth with your annointed. You have made void the covenant of your servant.

43 You have made all his enemies to rejoice, you have also turned the edge of his sword, and have made him to stand in the battle

46 HOW LONG WILL YOU HIDE YOURSELF FOR EVER? [Psalm 89:19]



Qur'an:

Such is GOD's promise - and GOD never breaks His promise - but most people do not know.[30:6]



BIBLE:

"And the Lord said, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

9:6 Slay utterly old [and] young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom [is] the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the elderly men who [were] before the house.

9:7 And he said to them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

Ezek. 9:5-7



Qur'an:

[60:8]

"GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable. "

"If they withdraw from you and fight you not, but (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then God alloweth no way for you (to war against them)" (4:90).

"If the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God" (8:61).




Point Made !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :microwave: :microwave: :microwave: :microwave: :microwave: :microwave:

 

[Brother]

"OR HOW CAN HE BE CLEAN THAT IS BORN OF A WOMAN?†(Job

Dear Quath,
I thank you for your neutral questions. It is the right way to start in thinking. That is what I experienced. I also believe that God had gave us many gifts. You see, God had gave us, for example, hands which are tools for touching things. Legs to walk. God had balanced every thing and He put every thing on its right place. Thus, he gifted us the greatest of all graces, that is the MIND. What is the mind work for. As we know it is for thinking and analyzing the things. The most important thing we should use our mind for is God’s sake. Seeking and searching for the true way of God, I think, is main place we put our mind for. So to use this facility is through reading and beneficial discussing with neutrality, as you much you can. I believe when we exam any religion we should seek, firstly, its understanding of God Almighty. It is always we need to find people who are seriously want the truth not a closed minded, fanatics. Men like Gary Bee, are not able to discuss with you for the cause of finding the truth. They are just one sided mind, and they are not like to reason the things. They just like the argument. For example, you can find him, when I asked him: I would like to discuss How did you find Jesus to be that truth? I was waiting an answer of that type of examining, using proves. But you see how was his answer? He said, “I have a personal relationship with Him through the Holy Spirit.†He ignores that this is not the way of reasoning. Any one can claim such thing and that what caused as you said, “33,000,000†and by the way in South Africa alone there are about 5000 denominations (2000 among the whites and 3000 among the blacks). Every one of them claim that he has the Holy Spirit. The Pope himself who bow to the idols, he would answer you the same. They create a HOAX then they say that is why it is truth!! If Gary Bee is dwelled by the Holy Spirit then he do not need to study Islam for four years because the Holy Spirit will teach him!
However, this type of people you just ask them to move a mountain if they are a true believers! Or to drink a poison and not get affected! This is what the sign which Jesus had given to classify the believers. And believe me no one of those fanatics can ever do it. Thus the type of these people, you do not have to waste your time in discussing with them. The only people whom you can make a beneficial discussion who are like Evanman. These type of people can sit with you friendly and reasoning to you the things. That he explains to you his mentality and you explain to him your mentality. And “why and how the things go,†they would explain. This discussion is only a helper but before it we should ask with cry and full of submission to God the Creator, as you said.