Should women teach in the church?

[electedbyhim]

Eve usurped the authority of man? She was deceived by the serpent, then gave Adam some of the forbidden fruit. Did he refuse it? Did he reprimand her? Did he say that God created me first and I am in charge? He voluntarily ate the fruit and it is because of Adam that sin entered the human race.

Genesis 3:6-7, "When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves."

Genesis 2:16, "And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” Adam didn't refuse the fruit, even though God gave the command to him!

Romans 5:12, "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—"

I do not agree with your opinions.

Since this is your thread. How do you resolve the verses where the Bible teaches that woman are not to teach or be Pastors?

 

[2ndRateMind]

Women are more emotional than men. Or so I have found, during the course of my life. But this is not necessarily a bad thing. I, a man, can no longer handle a church service, being too apt to cry at the beauty and sentiment of it. Instead, I content myself with with the study of the philosophy of religion, in the Christian tradition. But should women have a role in the church, and hold leadership positions therein, as the OP asks? Absolutely, in my opinion.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[Cooper]

I just posted this on another Christian forum and decided it should also be posted here...

Let's discuss this: women are without question equal to men in all matters mental, emotional, and spiritual. What reason can there possibly be for a woman not to hold any and every position in the church? Women are as much a part of the body of Christ as men; there can't be any debate about that. So, unless people are putting themselves back under some new form of the law, there cannot be any discrimination in the body of Christ based on gender.

I see no reason that women can't perform any role in the Body of Christ, as it's only extreme physical tasks that (most) women can't do as well as men. Mental and spiritual tasks are within the ability and reach of all regardless of gender.

You might want to ponder this part of John's gospel...

"Jesus said to her, “Mary.”

She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”).

Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them that he had said these things to her." John 20:16-18

This is one of the most important tasks ever given to any person in all of history! Jesus chose one particular person to announce His resurrection: a woman!!! A WOMAN!!! How could the principle of a woman's role in the body of Christ be any clearer???

It is time to drop the false idea that women can't perform any and every role in the church. If Jesus trusted a woman to deliver the most important message ever given in history, the issue is resolved.

Jewish boys were taught in Synagogue school and the girls who only spoke the language of the marketplace, Koine Greek and not Hebrew, were taught by their husband when they got home from Synagogue. Their wife in turn passed it onto the children.
.

 

[jaybo]

Eve usurped the authority of man.

We see this today.

a) Eve did not "usurp the authority of man". 1) Adam was given the command not to eat, not Eve. 2) Adam ate the fruit voluntarily, thereby disobeying in the command that God gave him (not Eve). The Bible says that humanity suffered because of what Adam did. Romans 5:12, "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

b) We see what today? People eating fruit? Men disobeying God's direct command?

 

[electedbyhim]

I understand, but Adam was not deceived.
1Ti 2:14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into trespass.

Also please answer my question, I will ask again.

How do you resolve the verses where the Bible teaches that woman are not to teach or be Pastors?

 

[jerry63935]

that woman are not to teach

are you willing to do nursery or pre K through 3rd grade remember the woman is to be silent in Church so the men has to do all the singing

 

[electedbyhim]

are you willing to do nursery or pre K through 3rd grade remember the woman is to be silent in Church so the men has to do all the singing

I do not think you understand.

1Ti 2:11 A woman must learn in quietness, in all submission.

1Ti 2:12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

1 Timothy 2:11​

Let a woman learn. Women are not to be the public teachers when the church assembles, but neither are they to be shut out of the learning process. The form of the Greek verb translated "let … learn" is an imperative; Paul is commanding that women be taught in the church. That was a novel concept, since neither first-century Judaism nor Greek culture held women in high esteem. Some of the women in Ephesus probably overreacted to the cultural denigration they had typically suffered and took advantage of their opportunity in the church by seeking a dominant role in leadership.

in silence with all submission. Silence (quiet) and submission (to line up under) were to characterize the role of a woman as a learner in the context of the church assembly. Paul explains his meaning in verse 12: Women are to be silent by not teaching, and they are to demonstrate submission by not usurping the authority of the pastors or elders.

1 Timothy 2:12​

I do not permit. The Greek word for permit is used in the NT to refer to allowing someone to do what he desires. Paul may have been addressing a real situation in which several women in Ephesus desired to be public preachers.

to teach. Paul used a verbal form of this Greek word that indicates a condition or process and is better translated: "to be a teacher." This was an important, official function in the church (see Act_13:1; 1Co_12:28; Eph_4:11). Thus, Paul is forbidding women from filling the office and role of the pastor or teacher. He is not prohibiting them from teaching in other appropriate conditions and circumstances (cf. Act_18:26; Tit_2:3-4).

to have authority over. Paul forbids women from exercising any type of authority over men in the church assembly, since the elders are those who rule (1Ti_5:17). They are all to be men (as is clear from the requirements in 1Ti_3:2, 1Ti_2:5).

in silence. See note on verse 1Ti_2:11.

In the Corinthian church woman trying to teach in the ser

 

[jerry63935]

I do not think you understand.



In the Corinthian church woman trying to teach in the ser

no i fully understand i know the back ground history but it has been said a woman shall not teach.. so when do the men of the Church step up and start teaching children classes .

 

[electedbyhim]

no i fully understand i know the back ground history but it has been said a woman shall not teach.. so when do the men of the Church step up and start teaching children classes .

If you actually read my reply you would see that.....

to teach. Paul used a verbal form of this Greek word that indicates a condition or process and is better translated: "to be a teacher." This was an important, official function in the church (see Act_13:1; 1Co_12:28; Eph_4:11). Thus, Paul is forbidding women from filling the office and role of the pastor or teacher. He is not prohibiting them from teaching in other appropriate conditions and circumstances (cf. Act_18:26; Tit_2:3-4).

Act 18:26 and he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.

Tit 2:3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good,
Tit 2:4 so that they may instruct the young women in sensibility: to love their husbands, to love their children,

I hope that answers your question.

 

[jerry63935]

If you actually read my reply you would see that.....

to teach. Paul used a verbal form of this Greek word that indicates a condition or process and is better translated: "to be a teacher." This was an important, official function in the church (see Act_13:1; 1Co_12:28; Eph_4:11). Thus, Paul is forbidding women from filling the office and role of the pastor or teacher. He is not prohibiting them from teaching in other appropriate conditions and circumstances (cf. Act_18:26; Tit_2:3-4).

Act 18:26 and he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.

Tit 2:3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good,
Tit 2:4 so that they may instruct the young women in sensibility: to love their husbands, to love their children,

I hope that answers your question.

once again i am well aware of the teaching of the proper context.. you have those who take it to a level of being goofy . a guy i use work with was independent baptist. the woman HAD NO SAY period in the Church. the men did all the voting.. the women could only teach children any thing above that men only.. take the woman out of the picture of the Church. you will have no church its proven fact women will attend church be the spiritual leader of the house. due to the husband has nothing to do with Church.. i was one of them

 

[electedbyhim]

once again i am well aware of the teaching of the proper context.. you have those who take it to a level of being goofy . a guy i use work with was independent baptist. the woman HAD NO SAY period in the Church. the men did all the voting.. the women could only teach children any thing above that men only.. take the woman out of the picture of the Church. you will have no church its proven fact women will attend church be the spiritual leader of the house. due to the husband has nothing to do with Church.. i was one of them

I understand what you are saying about certain Baptists. I also agree that a woman will have to take the spiritual lead in different situations of marriage, especially if the husband is not saved.

 

[Luminous_Rose]

1Ti 2:11 A woman must learn in quietness, in all submission.
1Ti 2:12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
1Ti 2:13 For it was Adam who was first formed, and then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into trespass.

You did not answer my questions in the previous reply. What did you think of those and the relationships Paul had with women and how he referred to them.

Concerning 1 Timothy. The entire passage hasn't been taken into consideration here. We need to real the full thing to understand and not only nitpick verses:

1 Timothy 2:9-14 NIV:

I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

----------------------------

(Remember that Paul was an educated Roman citizen and wrote like the philosopher's did. His format of writing is very much an A1, B1, C1, C2, B2, A2 type of format. Meaning, he'd make a point, make another point, then another, and then circle back around to those add to the previous points.)

In the first paragraph, it is referencing all people. Peace and "quietness" can mean to be in compliance with the law rather than in rebellion against it. It isn't only the physical act of not talking.

Next paragraph, it mentions men specifically. It is possible that men of this time were arguing with one another rather than praising and worshiping God. Some people of this time also worshiped other god's by shouting loudly and wailing. It's possible that could also be why silence was encouraged.

Then, down to women (see that this is plural - women), to dress modestly. Keep in mind, this is talking about churches that were surrounded by cultures of those worshiping gods and goddesses and some would adorn themselves to go to the temples or worship gods/goddesses. Such cults like that of Dionysus with cross dressing, drunkenness, orgies, and the like weren't uncommon. Some prostitutes of the time would also adorn their hair ornaments of some kind and this could possibly send a confusing message coming to a Christian congregation in this type of dress.

What gets more interesting is that further in the scripture, it's not women anymore, it's "a woman," so who is this talking about? This woman was said to be the woman of Ephesus. Women in this day, culture, and age were not privileged enough to have an education. Women were often looked down upon as less than human, basically worthless, like an animal, and were not often taught.

This is discouraging a false teacher within the church - a woman that may not even fully understood that she was saying things that weren't correct and possibly leading others astray. Many pastors would discourage that kind of thing in their own congregations today as I'm sure we can agree that false teaching is harmful.

Instead, Paul does something awesome! He gives this woman an opportunity to learn, but in order to do so, she needs to be quiet in order to learn and that way isn't spreading more false teaching.

This was gracious of Paul considering others like Philetus, Alexander, and Hymenaeus (men that were knowingly doing what was considered wrong).

A little further on, it makes an interesting mention of Adam and Eve, which is a story that most Christians easily understand. However, this isn't a war against women, it is an example of another woman that was deceived that a group of believers could understand.

These words were for a specific place in time for a specific situation.

There were so many amazing women in The Holy Bible that had Biblical authority. Miriam, Deborah the judge and prophetess, Priscilla, Phoebe the deaconess (whom Paul commended/stood with - why would Paul stand with Phoebe if this was wrong in God's eyes?), etc. etc. Why would God have place them in The Holy Bible in the positions he did if this was solely against God's word? There's no better way for a church to be vulnerable for spiritual attack than to mute all the women of the congregation.

Further where Phoebe is concerned, the Corinthians seemed to have a status obsession and Paul was refusing to play their game. Paul rebuked those who commend themselves and said it is the Lord who commends. Paul stood with Phoebe. This is a pretty clear sign that Phoebe had spiritual authority. It's hard to believe that Paul would contradict himself.

I understand this is a traditional belief for many churches and a lot of them still stick beside it, but in my personal experience and belief, it's spiritually unsound to believe that women shouldn't teach in a church or have any spiritual authority.

---------------------------------

Paul didn't stand there and say, "Women can't teach in church." If that was the case then why would he be in partnership with Priscilla and Aquila? It is interesting that Priscilla's name would even come first as this is contradictory to Roman custom. Roman custom was to always put the man's name first. Paul was an educated, Roman citizen so why would he do that if she didn't have some kind of spiritual authority?

Paul took Chloe's assessment of God's people seriously in 1 Corinthians. Why would he take her so seriously if she didn't have any spiritual authority?

Paul said he "commended" Phoebe. The Greek word for "commend" literally says, "to stand with." Why would he stand with Phoebe and endorse her if it was wrong for her to have such authority? He wouldn't have. Corinthians seemed to have a status obsession and Paul was refusing to play their game. Paul rebuked those who commend themselves and said it is the Lord who commends. Paul stood with Phoebe. This is a pretty clear sign that Phoebe had spiritual authority.

It's hard to believe that Paul would contradict himself.

 

[electedbyhim]

You did not answer my questions in the previous reply. What did you think of those and the relationships Paul had with women and how he referred to them.

Concerning 1 Timothy. The entire passage hasn't been taken into consideration here. We need to real the full thing to understand and not only nitpick verses:

1 Timothy 2:9-14 NIV:

I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

----------------------------

(Remember that Paul was an educated Roman citizen and wrote like the philosopher's did. His format of writing is very much an A1, B1, C1, C2, B2, A2 type of format. Meaning, he'd make a point, make another point, then another, and then circle back around to those add to the previous points.)

In the first paragraph, it is referencing all people. Peace and "quietness" can mean to be in compliance with the law rather than in rebellion against it. It isn't only the physical act of not talking.

Next paragraph, it mentions men specifically. It is possible that men of this time were arguing with one another rather than praising and worshiping God. Some people of this time also worshiped other god's by shouting loudly and wailing. It's possible that could also be why silence was encouraged.

Then, down to women (see that this is plural - women), to dress modestly. Keep in mind, this is talking about churches that were surrounded by cultures of those worshiping gods and goddesses and some would adorn themselves to go to the temples or worship gods/goddesses. Such cults like that of Dionysus with cross dressing, drunkenness, orgies, and the like weren't uncommon. Some prostitutes of the time would also adorn their hair ornaments of some kind and this could possibly send a confusing message coming to a Christian congregation in this type of dress.

What gets more interesting is that further in the scripture, it's not women anymore, it's "a woman," so who is this talking about? This woman was said to be the woman of Ephesus. Women in this day, culture, and age were not privileged enough to have an education. Women were often looked down upon as less than human, basically worthless, like an animal, and were not often taught.

This is discouraging a false teacher within the church - a woman that may not even fully understood that she was saying things that weren't correct and possibly leading others astray. Many pastors would discourage that kind of thing in their own congregations today as I'm sure we can agree that false teaching is harmful.

Instead, Paul does something awesome! He gives this woman an opportunity to learn, but in order to do so, she needs to be quiet in order to learn and that way isn't spreading more false teaching.

This was gracious of Paul considering others like Philetus, Alexander, and Hymenaeus (men that were knowingly doing what was considered wrong).

A little further on, it makes an interesting mention of Adam and Eve, which is a story that most Christians easily understand. However, this isn't a war against women, it is an example of another woman that was deceived that a group of believers could understand.

These words were for a specific place in time for a specific situation.

There were so many amazing women in The Holy Bible that had Biblical authority. Miriam, Deborah the judge and prophetess, Priscilla, Phoebe the deaconess (whom Paul commended/stood with - why would Paul stand with Phoebe if this was wrong in God's eyes?), etc. etc. Why would God have place them in The Holy Bible in the positions he did if this was solely against God's word? There's no better way for a church to be vulnerable for spiritual attack than to mute all the women of the congregation.

Further where Phoebe is concerned, the Corinthians seemed to have a status obsession and Paul was refusing to play their game. Paul rebuked those who commend themselves and said it is the Lord who commends. Paul stood with Phoebe. This is a pretty clear sign that Phoebe had spiritual authority. It's hard to believe that Paul would contradict himself.

I understand this is a traditional belief for many churches and a lot of them still stick beside it, but in my personal experience and belief, it's spiritually unsound to believe that women shouldn't teach in a church or have any spiritual authority.

---------------------------------

Paul didn't stand there and say, "Women can't teach in church." If that was the case then why would he be in partnership with Priscilla and Aquila? It is interesting that Priscilla's name would even come first as this is contradictory to Roman custom. Roman custom was to always put the man's name first. Paul was an educated, Roman citizen so why would he do that if she didn't have some kind of spiritual authority?

Paul took Chloe's assessment of God's people seriously in 1 Corinthians. Why would he take her so seriously if she didn't have any spiritual authority?

Paul said he "commended" Phoebe. The Greek word for "commend" literally says, "to stand with." Why would he stand with Phoebe and endorse her if it was wrong for her to have such authority? He wouldn't have. Corinthians seemed to have a status obsession and Paul was refusing to play their game. Paul rebuked those who commend themselves and said it is the Lord who commends. Paul stood with Phoebe. This is a pretty clear sign that Phoebe had spiritual authority.

It's hard to believe that Paul would contradict himself.

You did not answer my questions in the previous reply. What did you think of those and the relationships Paul had with women and how he referred to them.

What I think is not important. Actually I did answer your question with a quote from a commentary.

As to the rest of your posts, I am not nitpicking verses. I am going by what the Bible teaches. It is straight forward.

Woman can teach woman and children, that is all Scripture teaches. I have read many angles and opinions on what Paul was writing, in the end God created man first and created woman for the man, a suitable helper. I have read many commentaries and articles twisting Scripture to advance the agenda of woman to be leaders in the church. It is just not Biblical and church history proves this.

I suppose all the church fathers, great pastors and theologians have gotten this wrong as well.

 

[jerry63935]

i said this in another forum along the same subject manner . were Not going to stop women preachers .they will interrupt scriptures differently i also stated i know churches that do not allow the women of the Church any say in votes.. That is not Bible..

 

[Cooper]

You did not answer my questions in the previous reply. What did you think of those and the relationships Paul had with women and how he referred to them.

Concerning 1 Timothy. The entire passage hasn't been taken into consideration here. We need to real the full thing to understand and not only nitpick verses:

1 Timothy 2:9-14 NIV:

I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

----------------------------

(Remember that Paul was an educated Roman citizen and wrote like the philosopher's did. His format of writing is very much an A1, B1, C1, C2, B2, A2 type of format. Meaning, he'd make a point, make another point, then another, and then circle back around to those add to the previous points.)

In the first paragraph, it is referencing all people. Peace and "quietness" can mean to be in compliance with the law rather than in rebellion against it. It isn't only the physical act of not talking.

Next paragraph, it mentions men specifically. It is possible that men of this time were arguing with one another rather than praising and worshiping God. Some people of this time also worshiped other god's by shouting loudly and wailing. It's possible that could also be why silence was encouraged.

Then, down to women (see that this is plural - women), to dress modestly. Keep in mind, this is talking about churches that were surrounded by cultures of those worshiping gods and goddesses and some would adorn themselves to go to the temples or worship gods/goddesses. Such cults like that of Dionysus with cross dressing, drunkenness, orgies, and the like weren't uncommon. Some prostitutes of the time would also adorn their hair ornaments of some kind and this could possibly send a confusing message coming to a Christian congregation in this type of dress.

What gets more interesting is that further in the scripture, it's not women anymore, it's "a woman," so who is this talking about? This woman was said to be the woman of Ephesus. Women in this day, culture, and age were not privileged enough to have an education. Women were often looked down upon as less than human, basically worthless, like an animal, and were not often taught.

This is discouraging a false teacher within the church - a woman that may not even fully understood that she was saying things that weren't correct and possibly leading others astray. Many pastors would discourage that kind of thing in their own congregations today as I'm sure we can agree that false teaching is harmful.

Instead, Paul does something awesome! He gives this woman an opportunity to learn, but in order to do so, she needs to be quiet in order to learn and that way isn't spreading more false teaching.

This was gracious of Paul considering others like Philetus, Alexander, and Hymenaeus (men that were knowingly doing what was considered wrong).

A little further on, it makes an interesting mention of Adam and Eve, which is a story that most Christians easily understand. However, this isn't a war against women, it is an example of another woman that was deceived that a group of believers could understand.

These words were for a specific place in time for a specific situation.

There were so many amazing women in The Holy Bible that had Biblical authority. Miriam, Deborah the judge and prophetess, Priscilla, Phoebe the deaconess (whom Paul commended/stood with - why would Paul stand with Phoebe if this was wrong in God's eyes?), etc. etc. Why would God have place them in The Holy Bible in the positions he did if this was solely against God's word? There's no better way for a church to be vulnerable for spiritual attack than to mute all the women of the congregation.

Further where Phoebe is concerned, the Corinthians seemed to have a status obsession and Paul was refusing to play their game. Paul rebuked those who commend themselves and said it is the Lord who commends. Paul stood with Phoebe. This is a pretty clear sign that Phoebe had spiritual authority. It's hard to believe that Paul would contradict himself.

I understand this is a traditional belief for many churches and a lot of them still stick beside it, but in my personal experience and belief, it's spiritually unsound to believe that women shouldn't teach in a church or have any spiritual authority.

---------------------------------

Paul didn't stand there and say, "Women can't teach in church." If that was the case then why would he be in partnership with Priscilla and Aquila? It is interesting that Priscilla's name would even come first as this is contradictory to Roman custom. Roman custom was to always put the man's name first. Paul was an educated, Roman citizen so why would he do that if she didn't have some kind of spiritual authority?

Paul took Chloe's assessment of God's people seriously in 1 Corinthians. Why would he take her so seriously if she didn't have any spiritual authority?

Paul said he "commended" Phoebe. The Greek word for "commend" literally says, "to stand with." Why would he stand with Phoebe and endorse her if it was wrong for her to have such authority? He wouldn't have. Corinthians seemed to have a status obsession and Paul was refusing to play their game. Paul rebuked those who commend themselves and said it is the Lord who commends. Paul stood with Phoebe. This is a pretty clear sign that Phoebe had spiritual authority.

It's hard to believe that Paul would contradict himself.

Paul had many cultural issued to contend with in the early church, for example, he writes about a woman's hair being a glory to her. This was due to the custom in Corinth of shaving a prostitute's head. He was not saying Christian women today should wear their hair long.

When he told them to remain silent in church, he was not insulting their intelligence, but instead it was due to them not understanding the language of the Synagogue. It would be the same for me if I went to a church where the service was held in Latin, and I began whispering to my neighbour. I might well be told to 'shut up' and rightly so.
.

 

[Hopeful]

I just posted this on another Christian forum and decided it should also be posted here...

Let's discuss this: women are without question equal to men in all matters mental, emotional, and spiritual. What reason can there possibly be for a woman not to hold any and every position in the church? Women are as much a part of the body of Christ as men; there can't be any debate about that. So, unless people are putting themselves back under some new form of the law, there cannot be any discrimination in the body of Christ based on gender.

I see no reason that women can't perform any role in the Body of Christ, as it's only extreme physical tasks that (most) women can't do as well as men. Mental and spiritual tasks are within the ability and reach of all regardless of gender.

You might want to ponder this part of John's gospel...

"Jesus said to her, “Mary.”

She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”).

Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them that he had said these things to her." John 20:16-18

This is one of the most important tasks ever given to any person in all of history! Jesus chose one particular person to announce His resurrection: a woman!!! A WOMAN!!! How could the principle of a woman's role in the body of Christ be any clearer???

It is time to drop the false idea that women can't perform any and every role in the church. If Jesus trusted a woman to deliver the most important message ever given in history, the issue is resolved.

It is OK for them to teach...other women.
It is written..."The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed." (Titus 2:3-5)

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Paul encouraged a disciple to drink wine. Should we take this personal expression as a rule that we all ought to drink wine? Paul wrote, „I don’t permit.”

Personally I think it would be optimum if the church would not permit men and women who teach self promoting doctrines (send me money and God will bless you) any more.

 

[Cooper]

Paul encouraged a disciple to drink wine. Should we take this personal expression as a rule that we all ought to drink wine? Paul wrote, „I don’t permit.”

Personally I think it would be optimum if the church would not permit men and women who teach self promoting doctrines (send me money and God will bless you) any more.

True. It seems to me such people worship mammon.

A beggar can give their whole life to Jesus, and a paralysed person can give their heart to God.

No 'works' needed.

Jesus gave his life for you and me, and not our money, as if!
.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

True. It seems to me such people worship mammon.

A beggar can give their whole life to Jesus, and a paralysed person can give their heart to God.

No 'works' needed.

Jesus gave his life for you and me, and not our money, as if!
.

the Bible warns us of those who would come and make a business ("make merchandize") out of the church. Seems to be acceptable today.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Women are more emotional than men. Or so I have found, during the course of my life. But this is not necessarily a bad thing. I, a man, can no longer handle a church service, being too apt to cry at the beauty and sentiment of it. Instead, I content myself with with the study of the philosophy of religion, in the Christian tradition. But should women have a role in the church, and hold leadership positions therein, as the OP asks? Absolutely, in my opinion.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Them's fighting words, but nevertheless true. When a child falls down and is hurt, they know that Mama will be more sympathetic. I have worked for men and women and with few exceptions, I prefer men. They are less likely to be vengeful and emotion motivated in their decisions. A hard man is scary but a hard woman is more scary.