Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

Bible Study Should women teach?

Donations

Total amount
$1,592.00
Goal
$5,080.00
G

gimlisgrl

Guest
1 TIM 2:11&12 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. -NIV
So here Paul is talking about the church. But are we to take this literal? Are women never to be allowed to teach? What about teaching Sunday School for children/adults? Can women ever lead a sermon? Even if it's only now and then?
 
Titus 2:3-5
3 the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things--
4 that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed.
(NKJ)
 
The keyword in the verse is "I" This is Paul's own opinion. Paul's opinion can be wrong, and in this case it is.
 
But if it's in the bible, how can it be wrong? You are saying that it's his opinion. Just like Genesis is someone elses opinion?
 
It's not wrong. It is quite correct in asserting what Paul does. However, Paul saying "I do something" is not the same as him saying "You have to do something"
 
cubedbee said:
The keyword in the verse is "I" This is Paul's own opinion. Paul's opinion can be wrong, and in this case it is.

I believe that, as Paul himself stated, 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: .

It may be Paul's opinion, however, the very fact that this statement is contained within the canon of scripture means that it is the inspired Word of God!

Women should only teach children and other women!
 
Paul did not consider his own letters as Scripture. Neither do I.
 
so you dont belive all the word of God is scripture if your disregaurding paul then i would suggest that you burn your bible becouse it will do you no good.
 
re to re

I at first thought that this was just Pauls opinion; this is what he did in his church, but he was inspired by God and one of the greatest leaders; should we not follo his example? :-? God put it in the Bible for a reason, and you can not say this is an error otherwise you are doubting God and the authority of the Bible.
So is it God, or Paul?
 
Even the apostle Peter stated that Paul's writings were Scripture!
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Many fall into the error of rejecting the Pauline Epistles.

Remove them from the Bible at your peril!! They are the Word of God!
1Th 2:13 ¶ For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
 
The Bible never claims that it is the Word of God. The Bible is a book, written by inspired, but fallible men. It is a book that contains the truth about God's Word and which should be respected and studied. Paul, however inspired by God he was, was not perfect. Paul has a lot of great spiritual truth to share and he was included in the New Testament canon for good reason. Paul's opinion on women is not spiritual truth, and I freely reject his opinion as wrong. I don't worship a sexist God--Adam and Eve, not just Adam, were both created in God's image. Spiritually, there is no male or female.
 
I don't think the issue is even what Paul wrote but how it is read and interpreted. I am pretty sure that Paul is not saying what most think he is saying. I don't see where Paul is against women being teachers or leaders over men.
 
This is not paul this is the old testiment.

ok then look at Isa 3:12  As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

Prov 6:20; 2 Tim 1:5; 3:15  My son, keep thy father’s commandment, and forsake not the law of thy mother: … When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also. … And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [The person teaching becomes the authority; since the parent is already the authority, as God intended it to be from creation, there is no problem in women teaching doctrine to their own children.

Prov 12:4; 14:1  A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones. ... Every wise woman buildeth her house: but the foolish plucketh it down with her hands.

Prov 31:10-31  Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies. The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil. [/u]She will do him good and not evil[/u] all the days of her life. She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands. She is like the merchants’ ships; she bringeth her food from afar. She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens. She considereth a field, and buyeth it [in order to plant and grow food for her family]: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard. [providing wine part of the provisions of the home, just as is providing of the food; i.e., she was not a “real estate lady†as the so-called Biblical feminists teach todayâ€â€she barters food, wine, garments, and sashes (vs. 24)] She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms. She perceiveth that her merchandise is good [bartering food and drink, not real estate speculation]: her candle goeth not out by night. She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff. She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy. She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet. She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple [a wealthy household, yet she works hardâ€â€no idleness]. Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land. [Her faithfulness in the home and with the home is very significant in her husband’s success.] She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant. [The issue of working women is not income; the focus must be the home, and income generated through the home, not outside of it.] Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come. [She has made provision for the future.] She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness. She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness. Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her. Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all. [The real credit comes to a woman from her children and from her husband.] Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised. Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.
___________________________________________________________

New testiment scriptures.

This is what I personally believe and i will explain in this statement this is my own veiw and like other`s who also agree as paul said.

1 Tim (But I Paul, as an Apostle of Jesus Christ, with full authority of one inspired by God)

Eph 5:18, 22-24  And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; ... Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. [Can’t submit to husband if don’t submit to Christ.] For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

1 Tim 2:8-11  I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. Men are to lead; women are to be modest, learning quietly, and in submission; in this way, they prove their claim to godliness.

1 Tim 3:14,15; 2:11-15  These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

What follows are God’s instructions for a woman’s functioning in the formal services of the local church, which would include Sunday School ... Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

But I Paul, as an Apostle of Jesus Christ, with full authority of one inspired by God suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

I believe that a woman cannot teach with authority; e.g., in Sunday School classes, Bible conferences, etc. When a woman stands before a mixed crowd that includes men and opens the Bible and preaches or teaches, she is taking authority.

For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

The woman was created after the man to be his helpmeet, not his head. Obviously, this is NOT a cultural matter, but is based upon the order of creation; this establishment of the principle of order transcends culture!

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived “quite deceived†(NASBâ€â€Gen. 3:13) was in the transgression.

Therefore, the woman was not spiritually qualified to teach because of

(1) the order of creation, and

(2) the facts of the Fall.

Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, i.e., she will be occupying herself with the duties of the home and family (as evidence of her salvation given through the birth of the Messiah), and will receive her fulfillment/purpose in life in that arena if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety “self-restraint†(NASB).

1 Tim 5:9,10,14  Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man, Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints’ feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

Faithful service in “home-related†activities necessary to qualify widows to receive church support. … I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, be the “ruler†or “despot†of the home, but under the leadership of her husband give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

Titus 2:3-5 â€â€The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; See further: women teaching “home-related†activities to younger women, not Biblical doctrine. That they may teach “encourage†NASB

The young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children agape love, since a person can not be “taught†to have “feelingsâ€Â, To be discreet, chaste, keepers “workers†NASB at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, this alone would preclude a married woman from working outside the home, because outside work necessitates her to be under someone else’s authority, man or woman, other than her own husband that the word of God be not blasphemed.

1 Cor 14:33b-35,37  As in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. Not a cultural factor, but established by God thousands of years ago. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame “improper†(NASB) for women to speak in the church.

Women are to look for input and leadership from the man. … If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Eph 5:18, 22-24  And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; ... Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. Can’t submit to husband if don’t submit to Christ.

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

1 Pet 3:1-6  Likewise, ye wives, same as in submissiveness to government authorities (1 Pe 2:13-17) be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

God is saying that even for an unbeliever, submissiveness to God-supported authority is a hard and fast rule, not situational, circumstantial, or cultural. ...

Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

For after this manner in the old time i.e., not “cultural†the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, Outward adornment should not be the focal point of a woman’s lifeâ€â€rather her life is to emphasize godliness. being in subjection unto their own husbands: Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord (Gen. 18:12)

2000 years earlier; therefore, not cultural: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

1 Cor 11:3-10  But I would have you know, that the head i.e., authority (Jdg. 11:10; Eph. 1:22) of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Therefore, no inferiority is implied in submissiveness, only different God-ordained roles.

Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth direct revelation (which is no longer an active gift for anyone, men or women), not normal preaching/teaching (prophesying and teaching were two distinct giftsâ€â€Eph. 4:11)

With her head uncovered dishonoureth her head an abnormal situation for woman to pray or prophesy in public, and therefore, she must have a visible sign of authority over her:

for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause the created order ought the woman to have pwer on her head because of the angels. Paul again refers back to the order of creation, and that the angels are watching (Eph, 3:10), for his authority, not because of the curse of the Fall as some so-called “Biblical feminists†contend.

Paul is speaking here of conduct in meetings outside the church; he doesn’t speak to church conduct until verse 18; 1 Cor. 6:12-11:17 deals with personal conduct outside of corporate church meetings.
 
Should a Woman Teach?

It saddens my heart that we can accept women in so many positions - lawyers, doctors, judges, in politics and so forth but when it comes to the Word she has to sit by silently as though she is stupid except when it comes to teaching children. This debate will never end.

If the woman is leading people to Christ leave her alone. If she is teaching gospel truth and has been commissioned to go, leave her alone!

Is she going to hell because she is teaching the Word of God? Surely if she is teaching in a mixed congregation then the men present have no problem with it. When it comes to spiritual things I don't believe that God is looking at the flesh. He is looking at the spirit of the person.

What happens if the woman is not married and has been given permission to teach/preach by her pastor? We dont' think it's okay for a woman to preach because we consider it emotional but what about people who become emotional at sporting events?

If a female says that God called her to bring His Word who are we to say He did not. We are so busy putting God in a box. The world is going to hell while we argue over who should bring the Word to the people.
 
Re: Should a Woman Teach?

Prison Chaplain said:
It saddens my heart that we can accept women in so many positions - lawyers, doctors, judges, in politics and so forth but when it comes to the Word she has to sit by silently as though she is stupid except when it comes to teaching children. This debate will never end....
Hi there and welcome, Chaplain. Here is the original post. How do you reconcile what Paul is saying here?
gimlisgrl said:
1 TIM 2:11&12 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. -NIV
So here Paul is talking about the church. But are we to take this literal? Are women never to be allowed to teach? What about teaching Sunday School for children/adults? Can women ever lead a sermon? Even if it's only now and then?
 
Should a Woman Teach?

I think we need to research why Paul said for women to keep silent in the church. This is what my reference in the Spirit Filled Life Bible says:

Positively Paul exhorts women to be disciples and to maintain a conduct that would not discredit the church. The prohibition of v. 12 refers to the authoritative office of apostolic teacher in the church. It does not forbid women to educate, proclaim truth or exhort (prophesy). See Acts 2:17; 18:26; 21:9, I Cor. 11:5; Phil 4:3: 2 Tim. 1:5; 3:14, 15, Titus 2:3-5.

I did not take time to read these scripture passages. They were references in the note for I Tim. 2:12.

In the last days God said He was going to pour out His Spirit on all flesh and His sons and daughters would prophesy. This is not teaching or preaching, but it is done inside the church.

I think that we are stuck on what goes on in the church. We are all supposed to be witnesses. I think what we do outside of the church is very important. We can all be witnesses about the goodness of the Lord and compel men and women to come to the Lord.

The Word tells us to go into the highway and hedges and compel them to come into the kingdom of God. I think the most important thing is to get souls saved.
 
Re: Should a Woman Teach?

Prison Chaplain said:
I think we need to research why Paul said for women to keep silent in the church. This is what my reference in the Spirit Filled Life Bible says:

Positively Paul exhorts women to be disciples and to maintain a conduct that would not discredit the church. The prohibition of v. 12 refers to the authoritative office of apostolic teacher in the church. It does not forbid women to educate, proclaim truth or exhort (prophesy). See Acts 2:17; 18:26; 21:9, I Cor. 11:5; Phil 4:3: 2 Tim. 1:5; 3:14, 15, Titus 2:3-5.

I did not take time to read these scripture passages. They were references in the note for I Tim. 2:12....

...I think the most important thing is to get souls saved.
Excellent. I will provide the verses (KJV) in the hopes that this provokes more research and dialog. Yes, saving souls...God is in the business of saving souls. But I believe it must be done in the Spirit of sound Biblical doctrine.

Here are the verses...

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Acts 18:25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

Acts 21:8 And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him.

1 Cor 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

Phil 4:3 And I entreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

2 Tim 1:5 When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also.


2 Tim 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2 Tim 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Titus 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
Titus 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
Titus 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

:angel:
 

Donations

Total amount
$1,592.00
Goal
$5,080.00
Back
Top