Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation

[JLB]

What an important concept!
The NT becomes crystal clear when one understands this simple teaching.
Can't post verses,,,,so many.
John 3:3

I know this is a controversial subject, however I would like to commend everyone on this thread for having a good discussion and being respectful.


Thank you.

God bless you all.



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

this thread is going so far south so full of opinions both sides has good points... but yet neither will concede

What could the common ground be for eternal security?
Souls are at stake.
No one here is arguing.....were just talking.
You never know who could need to hear one specific idea...not even necessarily a poster.

 

[GodsGrace]

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


We must continue to remain connected to Christ, or be in danger of being cast into the fire and burned.


In Christ = Eternal life.


Removed from Christ, depart from Christ, disconnect from Christ = cast into the fire and burned.



This scripture alone demonstrates that OSAS is unbiblical.




JLB

Agreed. John 15 is so clear that no other scripture should be necessary.

And, it's Jesus saying it !

 

[ezra]

Only one could be right.
OSAS did NOT exist till 1,500....
Why?

1,500 ? neither one of us was around at that time . i will tell you this they as much right to believe osas as you do osnas .if you ask me the the false doctrine i have a problem with is speaking in tongues to prove you have the Holy Ghost or even those your not saved till you do speak in tongues . your dealing with interpretations of scripture .. would you or jlb be willing to walk into a southern Baptist church and stand up and say you teach false doctrine? facts are WE have NO authority to judge ones salvation heaven or hell.. if one errs from the truth we are to restore them.
Galatians 6
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.



if they become tares or are tares never saved God will separate them at judgment
the only thing i know is i have a know so salvation --i do good to take care of my self...

may be we should put a sign up that points toward the oil filling station --Jesus way truth life . yes we denounce sin

 

[lisa-in-FL]

Agreed. John 15 is so clear that no other scripture should be necessary.

And, it's Jesus saying it !

This is a verse about the difference between believers and unbelievers.

In Titus 3:5 - I am saved, regenerated and renewed. In John 3:3 I am born again. In Romans 8:9, the Holy Spirit dwells in me. Where are the verses where I am, un-born again, un-regenerated and un-renewed? Where is the verse where the Holy Spirit forsakes me and moves out?

In Romans 8:38-39 - Paul says that nothing will separate us from the love of Christ and the list covers everything . . things in the present and the future. . that's not just external forces, that's what you are doing now and what you do in the future.

Stop making God into a liar! 2 Corinth 1;22; 5:5; Ephesians 1: 13-14 - I am sealed with the Holy Spirit which is the guarantee of my inheritance.

 

[ezra]

No one here is arguing.....were just talking.

really is that what it is called ?

 

[Truthfrees]

So you and JLB both believe that the people Paul talked about in 1 Timothy 4:1-5 were never known by Jesus?

that is how it looked to me

 

[Truthfrees]

This is a verse about the difference between believers and unbelievers.

In Titus 3:5 - I am saved, regenerated and renewed. In John 3:3 I am born again. In Romans 8:9, the Holy Spirit dwells in me. Where are the verses where I am, un-born again, un-regenerated and un-renewed? Where is the verse where the Holy Spirit forsakes me and moves out?

In Romans 8:38-39 - Paul says that nothing will separate us from the love of Christ and the list covers everything . . things in the present and the future. . that's not just external forces, that's what you are doing now and what you do in the future.

2 Corinth 1;22; 5:5; Ephesians 1: 13-14 - I am sealed with the Holy Spirit which is the guarantee of my inheritance.

yes

 

[JLB]

In Romans 8:38-39 - Paul says that nothing will separate us from the love of Christ and the list covers everything . . things in the present and the future. . that's not just external forces, that's what you are doing now and what you do in the future.

Amen.

Nothing can separate us from God’s love.

Not even the depths of hell.




JLB

 

[Truthfrees]

1,500 ? neither one of us was around at that time . i will tell you this they as much right to believe osas as you do osnas .if you ask me the the false doctrine i have a problem with is speaking in tongues to prove you have the Holy Ghost or even those your not saved till you do speak in tongues . your dealing with interpretations of scripture .. would you or jlb be willing to walk into a southern Baptist church and stand up and say you teach false doctrine? facts are WE have NO authority to judge ones salvation heaven or hell.. if one errs from the truth we are to restore them.
Galatians 6
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

if they become tares or are tares never saved God will separate them at judgment
the only thing i know is i have a know so salvation --i do good to take care of my self...

may be we should put a sign up that points toward the oil filling station --Jesus way truth life . yes we denounce sin

good points - we all have reasons why we are convinced of the doctrines we hold - but we have no right to judge others based on their doctrines disagreeing with our doctrines

 

[JLB]

yes - when all the verses everyone has been quoting are put together it appears that there are people who:
1. dabble and later MAKE a commitment - aka get saved
2. dabble and later decide NOT to commit - aka fall away
3. pretend to have committed to Christ but later we find out they never did - they were just pretending and purposely fooling us - this group of pretenders is probably a small number but they are the ones we get warned about a lot because they cause the most trouble - pretenders hypocrites liars who love money and deceiving people sound like con artists playing a con game with christians - aka appear to fall away but really never were saved

I think you must be referring to tares.

Tares look like wheat but produce no fruit.

These are the sons of the wicked one.

We understand fully about tares.


What I am discussing and what this thread is about is not tares, or phony pretend Christians.


He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Matthew 13:37-39

• the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.

So I’m are not talking about tares but believers or sons of the kingdom.



And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:11-12

• But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

And in the parable of the shower it’s the same thing. The scripture is referring to believers, born again Christians who are being persecuted because they are in fact Christian.



Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


Jesus plainly said that the condition for being saved, (at least initially) is to believe.

• lest they should believe and be saved.

These who believed for a while, then later no longer believe, because they were being persecuted, did in fact believe.

Therefore they infact were saved.


Otherwise, not one single person can ever be sure if they are saved.



And like the sheep who became lost, we plainly see the sheep was indeed part of the flock of justified ones, then wandered away and became lost, in which he was declared to be a sinner, no longer reconciled to Christ, until he repented just like a sinner who has never believed is required to do.

He was lost.

That’s the plain, undeniable truth.

You and I both know what lost means and you and I know that lost people need salvation.


So when you put it all together there isn’t one single passage in the Bible that substantiates
OSAS.

Not one!


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6


again


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


again


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


again



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


again



There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


again


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21


again


He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire

JLB

 

[Truthfrees]

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

We must continue to remain connected to Christ, or be in danger of being cast into the fire and burned.

In Christ = Eternal life.

Removed from Christ, depart from Christ, disconnect from Christ = cast into the fire and burned.

This scripture alone demonstrates that OSAS is unbiblical.

JLB

Agreed. John 15 is so clear that no other scripture should be necessary.

And, it's Jesus saying it !

some versions of John 15:6 make it sound like unsaved people - not people who were once saved and then walked away -

 

[Truthfrees]

I think you must be referring to tares.

Tares look like wheat but produce no fruit.

These are the sons of the wicked one.

We understand fully about tares.

What I am discussing and what this thread is about is not tares, or phony pretend Christians.

He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Matthew 13:37-39

• the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.

So I’m are not talking about tares but believers or sons of the kingdom.

And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:11-12

• But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

And in the parable of the shower it’s the same thing. The scripture is referring to believers, born again Christians who are being persecuted because they are in fact Christian.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

Jesus plainly said that the condition for being saved, (at least initially) is to believe.

• lest they should believe and be saved.

These who believed for a while, then later no longer believe, because they were being persecuted, did in fact believe.

Therefore they infact were saved.

Otherwise, not one single person can ever be sure if they are saved.

And like the sheep who became lost, we plainly see the sheep was indeed part of the flock of justified ones, then wandered away and became lost, in which he was declared to be a sinner, no longer reconciled to Christ, until he repented just like a sinner who has never believed is required to do.

He was lost.

That’s the plain, undeniable truth.

You and I both know what lost means and you and I know that lost people need salvation.

So when you put it all together there isn’t one single passage in the Bible that substantiates
OSAS.

Not one!

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6

again

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

again

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

again

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

again

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

again

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21

again

He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

• all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire

JLB

i do see what you are saying but there is another way to look at it - it makes more scriptural sense to me that they were dabbling and decided not to commit

 

[ezra]

Romans 6:14-23 King James Version (KJV)
14 For sin shall not have "dominion over you: ' for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
if sin has fully taken over chances are were not saved to start with

 

[chessman]

This is a verse about the difference between believers and unbelievers.

Good point, let’s see if it sticks. That’s exactly what the passage is saying in reality. And just think, it makes the top of the list of the ‘best verses ...’

It’s simply the difference between “you” (believers) and “them” (unbelievers), right there in the Text.

If anyone is not abiding in Me— he was thrown outside like the branch, and was dried-up. And they gather them together, and throw them into the fire. And they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you want, and it will be done for you.​

John 15:6-7 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 15:6-7&version=DLNT

Do you have any idea how Jesus could truthfully say “I never knew you” to anyone who has abided in Him and His word in that someone?

 

[JLB]

some versions of John 15:6 make it sound like unsaved people - not people who were once saved and then walked away - iow Jesus could be saying a person who walks away is PROVEN to be someone He never knew - and a person who remains is PROVEN to be a believer

John 15:1-6 refers to those “in Christ”.


I think we all agree that someone “in Christ”, is a reference to someone who is joined to Christ.


But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6




JLB

 

[JLB]

but what if God is saying not everyone who goes to church is saved

God never said that, but I certainly have.


Not everyone who goes to church is saved.

Not everyone who claims to be Christian is saved.

Not every born again Christian who is saved right now, will continue to be saved on the Day of Judgement.



Hopefully that covers any misconceptions.




JLB

 

[JLB]

and any who depart never were a part of the church

I don’t find any place in the Bible where the phrase go to Church is even mentioned.


That’s a man made idea.


Furthermore, the scripture says “depart from the faith”.


How can someone continue to be saved, if they depart from the faith by which they are saved?




JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

1,500 ? neither one of us was around at that time . i will tell you this they as much right to believe osas as you do osnas .if you ask me the the false doctrine i have a problem with is speaking in tongues to prove you have the Holy Ghost or even those your not saved till you do speak in tongues . your dealing with interpretations of scripture .. would you or jlb be willing to walk into a southern Baptist church and stand up and say you teach false doctrine? facts are WE have NO authority to judge ones salvation heaven or hell.. if one errs from the truth we are to restore them.
Galatians 6
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.


if they become tares or are tares never saved God will separate them at judgment
the only thing i know is i have a know so salvation --i do good to take care of my self...

may be we should put a sign up that points toward the oil filling station --Jesus way truth life . yes we denounce sin

I have to disagree with you Ezra, and here's why:

Whether or not I believe in speaking in tongues has no effect on my salvation. Whether or not I speak in tongues has no effect on my salvation. It's one of the gifts. I do not believe that it's a sign of salvation as some may....I don't even think the tongue speaking churches believe this...I know the Assembly of God churches don't. They say that one is saved, but is not FILLED with the Holy Spirit (or words to that effect).

However, with OSAS, our salvation COULD be at stake.
Why?
Because God has always demanded obedience from us and those that believe in OSAS do not teach this. They say that we are saved once and for all time when we come to believe.

IOW, they believe that a person could abandon God, sin all they want to, act in a way that is not pleasing to God, and STILL be saved.

Does God agree with this?
If all Jesus did was teach us how to behave, will He forgive those who have not obeyed His teachings?
You may say we cannot know ---- but why take the chance?

Jesus Himself, and Paul, and others have made it clear that we can lose our salvation...I think it would be a good idea to teach what God expects from us ...

Instead of giving us a false sense of security.

If you need scripture, I'll post it AGAIN and AGAIN.....

 

[GodsGrace]

1,500 ? neither one of us was around at that time . i will tell you this they as much right to believe osas as you do osnas .if you ask me the the false doctrine i have a problem with is speaking in tongues to prove you have the Holy Ghost or even those your not saved till you do speak in tongues . your dealing with interpretations of scripture .. would you or jlb be willing to walk into a southern Baptist church and stand up and say you teach false doctrine? facts are WE have NO authority to judge ones salvation heaven or hell.. if one errs from the truth we are to restore them.
Galatians 6
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.



if they become tares or are tares never saved God will separate them at judgment
the only thing i know is i have a know so salvation --i do good to take care of my self...

may be we should put a sign up that points toward the oil filling station --Jesus way truth life . yes we denounce sin

P.S.
Regarding our not being around in 1,500 AD...
what does that have to do with anything?

We were not around when Jesus died either.

The year 1,500 AD is when the concept of OSAS was invented.

Were all the previous theologians before this dumb?
Don't you think that if OSAS was true, everyone would have taught it from the beginning of Christianity and not have to have waited till the year 1,500 AD??