Bible Study Speaking in Tongues

[Julian Pyke]

I am curious to know everyones views on Speaking in Tongues then provide some scriptures on it. I will be elaving to work at camp again in a week so hopefully this topic will be hot before I leave.

 

[Julian Pyke]

If you vote please respond... lol

 

[Free]

Yes, it is real and is for today.

 

[Drew]

I somewhat reluctantly voted no - among those Christians whose integrity and commitment to truthfulness I most respect (as demonstrated by the general quality of their lives), this gift has simply not appeared. And when I have heard people speaking in tongues, the flow and cadence is frankly suggestive of gibberish - random noises. I may not understand Mandarin but I can recognize pattern and structure. Not so in my experience with listening to tongues.

On the other hand, I my exposure to others speaking in tongues has not been that significant - so I maintain an open mind....

 

[Sara929]

I voted yes. Yes, I believe that people to this day have been gifted with speaking with their tongues! :angel:

Honestly though, yes, I do believe that the gift of tongues is still in manifestation today. However I believe its often faked whether intentionally or not, and occasionally maybe even the work of other spirits.

 

[Free]

I may not understand Mandarin but I can recognize pattern and structure.

Have you heard those 'bush people' (sorry if it isn't PC, I don't know the proper term) that use clicks and other sounds in their speach? Do you think you could recognize pattern and structure in those types of languages?

I am curious Drew: have you heard the 'original' tongues and are able to make the comparison to tell the 'true' from the 'false'? ;)

I'm not trying to be mean or start anything, just trying to give some food for thought.

 

[Blazin Bones]

It is very real, and very much for today. However, I don't think very many people know how to use this gift if they have it. There are specific instructions that few follow today.

 

[Drew]

Have you heard those 'bush people' (sorry if it isn't PC, I don't know the proper term) that use clicks and other sounds in their speach? Do you think you could recognize pattern and structure in those types of languages?

I would have to hear such speech. However, your general point is well taken - it is unlikely that all structure would be discernable by me

I am curious Drew: have you heard the 'original' tongues and are able to make the comparison to tell the 'true' from the 'false'? ;)

No I have not - again perhaps I might not be able to recognize structure.

I'm not trying to be mean or start anything, just trying to give some food for thought.

I do not doubt your intentions - in my opinion, your posts always are delivered in a polite, respectful and and constructive manner.

 

[Julian Pyke]

I think there are two kinds of tongues in the Bible. One where you may be speaking in tongues and have no idea what you are saying but those you are speaking to do. (like witnessing to a different culture of language)

The tongues I am refering to is this:

1 Corinthians 14:2 - For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

I have been taught... and this verse pretty much sums it up (along with other verses) that speaking in tongues is your spirit man talking to God. Anyone can do it... the Holy Spirit is inside all who chose Jesus Chris as their savior. This verse says just that (out of the King James Version Bible)

Someone else can interpret the meaning by God telling them what it meant. But really its you praying or talking to God. (Your spirit man)

 

[SputnikBoy]

I believe, from my understanding of the scriptures, that today's Pentecostal form of 'tongues' (is there any other?) are one of the biggest delusions of ....? ever perpetrated on the Christian Church.

 

[Julian Pyke]

sorry I'm not familiar with the Penacostal view on tongues. Can you let me know what they believe on that issue or whatever?

 

[SputnikBoy]

sorry I'm not familiar with the Penacostal view on tongues. Can you let me know what they believe on that issue or whatever?

Sputnik: Biblical tongues were simply 'known languages' that were unlearned by the speaker. They were given to a select few for preaching the gospel of Jesus (the good news of salvation) to the Gentiles. While a supernatural gift, this is solely why they were given by the Holy Spirit and the purpose for which they were to be used.

I'm rather surprised that you are not familiar with 'Pentecostal tongues' since you're the one who started the discussion. What kind of 'tongues', pray tell, did you intend to discuss if not present-day Pentecostal ones?

Early in the last century, the Pentecostal Movement 'resurrected' what it believed, either through ignorance or design, to be scriptural 'tongues'. This practice had been long dormant prior to this new phenomenon that took place at the Azuza Street Revival. People began to utter strange sounds in their meetings that became popularly known as 'speaking in tongues'. It all came about through a misinterpretation of scriptures that are found only in one book ...that of 1 Corinthians 13 and 14. Elsewhere the Bible is silent on this entire issue. The references in Acts that pertain to the original and genuine infilling of the Holy Spirit are NOT those that are used in defense of today's 'tongues'. Paul's letter to the Church of Corinth (a letter that condemns a number of the church' practices INCLUDING MISUSE OF TONGUES!) is that which is used by Pentecostals to support this practice.

From this erroneous belief brought about through misrepresentation of the scriptures spawned an ungodly practice that is sweeping the world today. Today, generally speaking, 'tongues' come FIRST and very soon become a learned habit. Most people can fake 'tongues' if they have a mind to. Gibberish doesn't take extraordinary vocal skills to achieve. A number of pagan tribes of today become similarly worked up with euphoric fervor and also 'speak in tongues'. So, the practice of 'tongues' need not be attributed to the Holy Spirit at all. The demons can achieve a similar delusion quite nicely. And, while not every Pentecostal or charismatic member 'speaks in tongues', it IS expected that they WILL do so at some point in time.

SECONDLY comes the 'defence' phase of those 'tongues' taken from the same misrepresented source (1 Corinthians) that started the whole thing in the first place back in the early 1900s. This is what we see continually occurring on these forums. The facts are that whoever claims to 'speak in tongues' will RARELY back down and concede their error ...no matter how many times the scriptures in question are accurately interpreted and brought to their attention. And they CAN be accurately interpreted quite easily. So, this whole issue becomes 'non-debatable' from the very start. The 'experience' of 'tongue-speaking' is far greater than the accuracy of the scriptural texts that might condemn the practice. Is there any point continuing?

 

[dcookcan]

Well said sputnik.

I have been involved in many different churches in my life, almost all of them were of the charismatic persuasion. The beginnings of my questioning church doctrine altogether came when I was on the road for work. I was searching for a radio station to listen to and came across a song in tongues. I immediately turned up the radio and listened, because it was exactly like the tongues my pastor spoke. When the song was over, I found out that the song was a pagan-druidic chant. HORROR!

Next thing I know, the charismatics are trying to justify barking like a dog, roaring like a lion, clucking like a chicken, etc... as being from the holy spirit....Nuff sed.

Satan can appear as an angel of light. Do you really know the true tongues from the false ones?

 

[Julian Pyke]

Ok... but again.. the spricture I provided. I think there are two types of tongues mentioned in the Bible. One speaking in another language that other people know but you never elarned that language and the other your Spirit man talking to God.

 

[cj]

God always gives us the principle in a type through the creation around us.

Ever take notice of how a baby learns to speak, first manifested in unknown sounds, then familiar sounds, and finally understandable words, and when this level is reached the baby never returns to the former.

Paul said that it is far more profitable to speak with understanding, but Christianity has lost sight of this speaking of Paul's also.

And so many suffer in darkness.

Ask God to grow you all out of tongues saints, other than when we are hidden deep in our own closet perhaps.

In love,
cj

 

[lovely]

Blessings Everyone,

I voted, Yes, but they are not present today. I can not say this for sure, but I am not fully convinced that believers have this gift today.

I believe that Scripture teaches of those who spoke in other tongues. Others heard them, and believed on Christ. God used people to speak the Gospel to others in this way. I have never talked to anyone who could identify what language they are speaking in, or what they are saying. I have never heard anyone who has heard tongues, who could identify the language and interpret it.

I was in service with some Pentecostal friends, a ladies' conference, and someone began speaking in "tongues". Another woman across the chapel began to interpret. Her "interpretation" was not Scriptural, and did not make much sense, really. I found the entire service to be very emotion led, and full of error. I left, I was not going to stay and listen to such mockery.

Blessings.

 

[Free]

The facts are that whoever claims to 'speak in tongues' will RARELY back down and concede their error ...no matter how many times the scriptures in question are accurately interpreted and brought to their attention.

And don't forget the fact that those who are adamant that today's tongues are unscriptural will RARELY back down and concede their error...no matter how many times the scriptures in question are accurately interpreted and brought to their attention.

It goes both ways Sputnik.

One of the big problems with people who are adamant that tongues aren't for today and that they are unscriptural is that no one can be certain that every instance of tongues around the world since 1904(ish) is not of God. It simply is not a rational position to take.

At least there have been a couple who, although they don't think that tongues are for today, remain open to the possibility that it may have occurred or be occurring.

 

[Julian Pyke]

Again I say I think there are two "tongues" the Bible speaks of. 1) Where one witnesses to another about God but not in their language. 2) Where your Spirit Man talks to God.

1 Corinthians 14:2 - For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

It is plain here. He who speaks in an UNKNOWN TONGUE speaks NOT unto MAN but unto GOD. For no man understandeth him! Howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

The pentacostals have taken it a bit to far, but thats not to say some of them are true incidences. In the church I attend the pastor will ask who has a message in tongues then he will interpret. Or have someone interpret that he knows has the interpretation. And if at any time anything is wrong he WILL point it out (he has done it before) because it didn't match up with the Word of God.

You might ask yourself how they interpret if no man understands him. Well God tells them the interpretation.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Again I say I think there are two "tongues" the Bible speaks of. 1) Where one witnesses to another about God but not in their language. 2) Where your Spirit Man talks to God.

Sputnik: Thanks for the PM, by the way. No, there are not two types of tongues in the Bible. There are actually MANY. And, each tongue is an actual language spoken somewhere in the world by someone. But, of course, that isn't what you meant. You mean that there are two specific 'supernatural examples' of tongues that the Bible speaks of. Actually there are not. There is only one. This was first established in Acts and the definition of tongues never changed from then on.

Julian: 1 Corinthians 14:2 - For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

It is plain here. He who speaks in an UNKNOWN TONGUE speaks NOT unto MAN but unto GOD. For no man understandeth him! Howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Sputnik: It's only plain if one 'thinks' they understand what Paul is saying here ...does that make sense? In other words, a superficial or incorrect reading of it APPEARS to make the text plain. There was never any such thing as an 'unknown' tongue. Every tongue or language is spoken by someone, somewhere in the world. The language is only 'unknown' or 'mysterious' to one who doesn't understand the language. Let me give you an example:

Car Dieu a tant aime le monde qu'il a donne son Fils unique, afin que quiconque croit en lui ne perisse point, mais qu'il ait la vie eternelle.

Unknown to you? Is it a mystery to you? Yes. Unless you speak French, that is. Then you'll read that scriptural text as John 3:16.

One cannot pull out one scriptural text here and one scriptural text there and allow them to contradict an already established fact. Besides, and please take note, the word 'unknown' did NOT appear in the original manuscripts of the Bible. That word does not belong there and should therefore be ignored. 'Unknown' was placed there by those who actually copied from the original manuscripts. Even then I'm sure their intention was solely to draw attention to the fact that the languages being spoken supernaturally were merely 'unknown' to those not versed in those languages. Human error or addititions, hyperbole, opinions, cultural references, symbolisms in and of themselves, figurative language, need not be regarded as divine literal.

Julian: The pentacostals have taken it a bit to far, but thats not to say some of them are true incidences.

Sputnik: You fibber! You gave the impression a few posts back that you were not familiar with Pentecostal 'tongues'. :smt018

Julian: In the church I attend the pastor will ask who has a message in tongues then he will interpret. Or have someone interpret that he knows has the interpretation. And if at any time anything is wrong he WILL point it out (he has done it before) because it didn't match up with the Word of God.

Sputnik: If the 'tongue' was from the Holy Spirit, then why on earth would it NOT match up with the Word of God? And, as long as no one is 'ever really sure' that the 'tongue' is the Word of God anyway, then how can anyone EVER take this kind of thing seriously? Additionally, who has the authority in your church to interpret a 'tongue' that no one, including the speaker, understands? What is the criteria for determining the accuracy of either the content or the interpretation ...the word of your pastor or the individual doing the interpreting? Hmmm ..... !!

This is NOT an attack against you, Julian, understand? You're simply the messenger here, same as me. But, this 'who has a message in tongues?' is all a lot of hooey. This kind of thing implies that the Holy Spirit is just 'hanging around' in church waiting for the opportunity for someone to ask Him to put on a show for them. This is so unscriptural that I feel a need to make a stand. The intention of tongues was SERIOUS business. This is the Holy Spirit we're talking about here, NOT Casper the friendly ghost and his freaky buddies. The ability to speak in another language ('tongue'=Greek 'glossa'='known language') was never intended to make the 'tongue speaker' look good. It was never intended to make the 'tongue speaker' entranced or to experience 'euphoria'. It was never intended for any other purpose than witnessing to a foreigner in that foreigner's own language the message of the gospel. If there is no one in your church who requires the gospel in their own language, then just assume that there's something shady going on.

Julian: You might ask yourself how they interpret if no man understands him. Well God tells them the interpretation.

Sputnik: Sounds more than a bit suspicious, Julian. As a matter of interest, do any of the members of your church practice that other unscriptural practice, 'slaying in the Spirit'? And, how about ... well, I won't go into the 'how about' just yet. However, those who practice 'tongues' often participate in other interesting practices as well. Again, Julian, this is NOT a personal attack ...okay?

 

[cj]

You might ask yourself how they interpret if no man understands him. Well God tells them the interpretation.

You know, the funny thing is, when the Spirit revealed to Jesus the mind of the Pharisees, He simple told them what they were thinking, in a language they understood.

Where's the pattern, in Christ or in some Pastor that is conducting himself in a completely unscriptural manner. For where in scripture do we see this Pastor's actions being declared as a pattern for believers to follow?

Julian, what do you gain from observing this, that you would not gain if people just spoke the message in an understandable way in the first place.

In other words, if someone simply prophesied (not in the "Thus says the Lord" way, but in speaking a word of encouragement or such) without any tongue speaking, would it not profit the same? Or do you profit from hearing tongues being spoken by someone?

According to the bible, the profit come with the interpretation and not with the tongue.

And you know what else Julian, the bible tells us that all should prophesy, that all members of a local church should come to a meeting to speak their portion.

What then, do all these prophesies need tongues spoken before them?

No.

The truth is, like most things, Christianity has simply institutionalized "tongue speaking", making it into an altar of worship and a false teaching.

Its actually very sad to see saints jabbering away in unintelligible utterings, when they could be profitably redeeming the precious time God has given them by praying, praising, and calling on the Name of our Lord in an understandable manner, which is the scriptural way to conduct all meeting of the saints.

In love,
cj