Strange Fire conference - Anyone followed?

[ravindran_eee]

I have huge respect for John MacArthur and one of the preachers to whom I listen very regularly. Recently he held a conference by the title Strange Fire. It was against the charismatic practices. It has triggered lot of heat from pentecostal/charismatic side. The issue is, did he paint with a too broad brush.

I personally believe that gifts of the Holy Spirit are very much active today. I don't they ceased by the time apostolic period got over.

Did anyone else follow the conference? What is your take on that? I am interested in hearing from both side of the fences! I am sure there are both cessationists and continuationists in this forum!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

There is a problem with classifying Christians as either one or the other.
As Dr. MacArthur stated, "one side has to be right and the other wrong".
I disagree.
I received the gift of the Holy Spirit and I then spoke in tongues and I still do today.
This event changed my life.
I am closer to God now than ever before.
I know this gift came from God.

Now Dr. MacArthur has never experienced what I have experienced.
He cannot know how God has worked in my life.
All he can say to me is, "what you have is not from God".

And yet, who is he to make such a statement?

On the other hand, the charismatic movement has taken the gifts to such an extreme that it's actually scary.
There are many movements out there that I would run away from, but that's another story.

I believe Apostles no longer exist.
Paul passed the baton onto Timothy and others, naming them overseers and elders, not calling any of them to succeed him as an Apostle.

 

[JLB]

There is a problem with classifying Christians as either one or the other.
As Dr. MacArthur stated, "one side has to be right and the other wrong".
I disagree.
I received the gift of the Holy Spirit and I then spoke in tongues and I still do today.
This event changed my life.
I am closer to God now than ever before.
I know this gift came from God.

Now Dr. MacArthur has never experienced what I have experienced.
He cannot know how God has worked in my life.
All he can say to me is, "what you have is not from God".

And yet, who is he to make such a statement?

On the other hand, the charismatic movement has taken the gifts to such an extreme that it's actually scary.
There are many movements out there that I would run away from, but that's another story.

I believe Apostles no longer exist.
Paul passed the baton onto Timothy and others, naming them overseers and elders, not calling any of them to succeed him as an Apostle.

I believe Apostles no longer exist.
Paul passed the baton onto Timothy and others, naming them overseers and elders, not calling any of them to succeed him as an Apostle

I have never heard this remark from a Spirit Filled Christian.

How do you come to this conclusion?


Everything else you posted I agree with.

Run from.....!!!


JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I can't think of any Christian since Bible times that called himself an Apostle that should have that title.

 

[JLB]

I can't think of any Christian since Bible times that called himself an Apostle that should have that title.

So, the criteria is; Someone has to "call them self" an Apostle.

There are many that do.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

So, the criteria is; Someone has to "call them self" an Apostle.

There are many that do.

Who claims that God called them an Apostle.
Rev. Moon?
Joseph Smith?
Mike Bickle?
Mary Baker Eddy?

I don't believe them.

 

[JLB]

Who claims that God called them an Apostle.
Rev. Moon?
Joseph Smith?
Mike Bickle?
Mary Baker Eddy?

I don't believe them.

That's your choice.

Who laid hands on you for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Deborah13]

That's your choice.

Who laid hands on you for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I don't know if there is/were apostles in the church after the original 12 plus Paul. I can't find a clear scripture on that, but they are listed in the 5 fold ministry of the church.
However, I don't think one must have hands laid on them at all because of this scripture.

Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

So at least in this scripture it appears that they were hearing the Gospel message when they were baptized by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Deborah13]

That's your choice.

Who laid hands on you for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Opps....
I am wrong. I just remembered a few others called apostles.

Act 14:14Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
Rom 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

 

[AirDancer]

After the establishment of the Roman Church in Rome as the absolute head of Christians, the role of apostle died away from line up of titles and duties. Every so often, in each century, someone has referred to another or to himself as 'apostle'. In the past couple of decades, the title has been revived in stronger numbers by people such as C. Peter Wagner, Rick Joyner, Chuck Pierce, and more.

You, too, can be an apostle. Just pay your money & sign up at:

http://www.coalitionofapostles.com/...&mode=catalog&parent=25&CatalogSetSortBy=date

 

[reba]

G652
ἀπόστολος
apostolos
ap-os'-tol-os
From G649; a delegate; specifically an ambassador of the Gospel; officially a commissioner of Christ (“apostle”), (with miraculous powers): - apostle, messenger, he that is sent.

Mat 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

Mat 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Mat 10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
Mat 10:4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.


Do we take these words of Jesus as if He is speaking to us?
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

We know because of Paul apostles are not just sent to the Lost sheep of Israel.....

Could it be that because the way we (rightly imo ) look at St. Paul we have elevated the word apostle to a higher standard.?..

 

[ravindran_eee]

Well well.. I never thought the discussion would take this direction! would appreciate if we can get back to the original intent of the thread.. What do you people think about the conference? The first comment was pretty much what I was expecting to hear.. I also know that there are many "open but cautious" people. This is a term used by Wayne Grudem. Don't know if others use it!! I also know that there are many pentecostals who follow John MacArthur sincerely. How do you feel him throwing everyone off guard?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Well well.. I never thought the discussion would take this direction! would appreciate if we can get back to the original intent of the thread.. What do you people think about the conference? The first comment was pretty much what I was expecting to hear.. I also know that there are many "open but cautious" people. This is a term used by Wayne Grudem. Don't know if others use it!! I also know that there are many pentecostals who follow John MacArthur sincerely. How do you feel him throwing everyone off guard?

Sounded like a big promotion for his book and it was successful.

 

[ravindran_eee]

Sounded like a big promotion for his book and it was successful.

What is your opinion on the abuse by charismatic preachers? I feel like there is more abuse than genuine gospel preaching.. Emotional experience is not what is required.. Willful conviction to follow Christ is what is needed.. That is the work of Holy Spirit.. It is not to make a person cry like animals.. But rather to convict a person in the image of Christ.. I watched a few clips of Strange Fire.. This is what was highlighted.. I had no problems with that.. I keep hearing he painted with a broad brush.. I have to see the entire conference video to understand more about that..

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Hi Ravin, I would like to answer this as best I can, but I need to go off line now.
I will respond sometime tomorrow morning.

 

[ravindran_eee]

Hi Ravin, I would like to answer this as best I can, but I need to go off line now.
I will respond sometime tomorrow morning.

Good night! You can call me Ravi.. A lot of people call me Ravin. But there is no such name Sorry, not trying to be offensive.. I think it is better to let others know rather than keeping it in my mind wondering why people are not calling me by the right name Talk to you tomorrow.. Have a good night..

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Hi Ravi, there are so many different directions this can go.
I'll talk one point at a time and keep it simple.
"If Pastor John says it then I believe it".
I've heard this type of phrase way too often.
There are a group of pastors today that have joined ministries and are huge as a group.
They call themselves apostles and prophets and claim direct access to heaven through the Holy Spirit, side stepping Jesus.
"In the name of Jesus" becomes a phrase used at the end of a sentence.
Healing is a big deal, the sensation and the experience being the main attraction.
Through this, false doctrine steps in and we start seeing some crazy things going on.

How about this: "if you give money today I will cast out the spirit of poverty from you and your family".
Such a statement is very appealing to a lot of people.
People who don't even know what poverty is but they just want more.
But why cast it out only to those that give?
Why didn't Jesus make such claims?
He said the poor will always be with us.

Sound doctrine is not taught.
Reading the Bible to test the spirits of what they are saying is not taught.

Everything is all about their ministries and what they do.
Now they have schools where you can learn to be just like them.
It is like a pyramid scheme where they are on top and every else is on the bottom.

The biggest problem I have seen is how Jesus is so little and how big they are.

 

[Deborah13]

Hi Ravi, there are so many different directions this can go.
I'll talk one point at a time and keep it simple.
"If Pastor John says it then I believe it".
I've heard this type of phrase way too often.
There are a group of pastors today that have joined ministries and are huge as a group.
They call themselves apostles and prophets and claim direct access to heaven through the Holy Spirit, side stepping Jesus.
"In the name of Jesus" becomes a phrase used at the end of a sentence.
Healing is a big deal, the sensation and the experience being the main attraction.
Through this, false doctrine steps in and we start seeing some crazy things going on.

How about this: "if you give money today I will cast out the spirit of poverty from you and your family".
Such a statement is very appealing to a lot of people.
People who don't even know what poverty is but they just want more.
But why cast it out only to those that give?
Why didn't Jesus make such claims?
He said the poor will always be with us.

Sound doctrine is not taught.
Reading the Bible to test the spirits of what they are saying is not taught.

Everything is all about their ministries and what they do.
Now they have schools where you can learn to be just like them.
It is like a pyramid scheme where they are on top and every else is on the bottom.

The biggest problem I have seen is how Jesus is so little and how big they are.

I agree with what you have said. Another thing I have seen is this, send so much money and we'll send you a handkerchief with so and so sweat on it for healing and for tubes of holy water or olive oil.....the list goes on.

I listened to one of the videos of the conference "Testing the Spirits" and I think MacArthur made some very good points. At about 54 mins. he talks about prosperity teaching and I agree with some of what he says, in fact most.

If someone else watches it I would like to know what their understanding is of what he says about the teaching in the Bible where Jesus talks about the woman giving all that she had. I think MacArthur was saying that Jesus wasn't saying that she was doing a good thing. That she was actually trying to buy her way to God?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I agree with what you have said. Another thing I have seen is this, send so much money and we'll send you a handkerchief with so and so sweat on it for healing and for tubes of holy water or olive oil.....the list goes on.

I listened to one of the videos of the conference "Testing the Spirits" and I think MacArthur made some very good points. At about 54 mins. he talks about prosperity teaching and I agree with some of what he says, in fact most.

If someone else watches it I would like to know what their understanding is of what he says about the teaching in the Bible where Jesus talks about the woman giving all that she had. I think MacArthur was saying that Jesus wasn't saying that she was doing a good thing. That she was actually trying to buy her way to God?

I think that is a far stretch and it seems that MacArthur is trying to get people to "buy" into his way of thinking.
To take a positive passage as the poor widow and make it negative is just not right.

 

[Deborah13]

I think that is a far stretch and it seems that MacArthur is trying to get people to "buy" into his way of thinking.
To take a positive passage as the poor widow and make it negative is just not right.

This is the one I listened to posted by his ministry, Grace to You. You should listen for yourself because I may have misunderstood what he said. It begins just before the 54 mins. point in the video.