You have blatantly misrepresented me because you have presumed too much about what I have left unsaid. I have only been addressing one thing. And cut the personal attacks.
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Pizzaguy
Member
Come on Free, you started this, don't back down now.
Tell us where I am wrong, go ahead.
Or tell us what this really is about, your self-righteous attempt to elevate yourself above the crowd of pitch-fork carrying common folk who cant stand aside and do nothing (ok, ... do little) while evil destroys another life.
Face it, children are defenseless. The CHILD did not start this, the creep did.
He did this to himself, Free. And he can be forgiven, I am glad for that. I am only concentrating on the evil that would be done to another child later.
Ok, fine, and I am glad he got destroyed for what he did, too. What is wrong with that?
I am just a mirror here.
Tell us where I am wrong, go ahead.
Or tell us what this really is about, your self-righteous attempt to elevate yourself above the crowd of pitch-fork carrying common folk who cant stand aside and do nothing (ok, ... do little) while evil destroys another life.
Face it, children are defenseless. The CHILD did not start this, the creep did.
He did this to himself, Free. And he can be forgiven, I am glad for that. I am only concentrating on the evil that would be done to another child later.
Ok, fine, and I am glad he got destroyed for what he did, too. What is wrong with that?
I am just a mirror here.
Pizzaguy
Member
DarkHorseRising
Member
People justify killing him to protect the next victim due to the failure of the courts to take this sort of thing seriously and keep these people locked up forever.
What obfuscation?
Funny how everyone thinks their points are the ones that need addressing and not the other persons. :bigfrownPizzaguy said:
Regardless, that there will not be a next victim from this abuser does not justify killing the abuser. Now, I realize the father didn't mean it but my whole point this whole time has been that killing an abuser, much less celebrating or being glad that he is dead, is not a Christian response.
:bigfrown When you don't have an argument, attack the person....Please read what I write.
It is not an appropriate Christian response.Pizzaguy said:
D4Christ
Member
Will Christians not celebrate when the LORD sends his wrath against those who belong to this world. Will not His wrath result in the death of millions.
Rev 6
Are these not Christians asking for vengeance? Doesn't David ask in Psalms for the Lord to destroy our enemies? Doesn't scripture talk about having feasts in the presence one's enemies.
Rev 18
Sounds like a celebration over evil to me.
Blessings,
Dee
jasoncran
Member
i have pondered that verse a few times. i believe it to be a celebration of the lords "final solution" to sin and its full fruition rather then a rejoicing of the damnation of the sinners.
by this i mean we rejoice that he gets the glory over satan and his seed once and for all!
by this i mean we rejoice that he gets the glory over satan and his seed once and for all!
CalledToServe
Member
Dee,
In another thread I mentioned to you about the three greatest commandments. This thread is an extension of it. As Christians we are to be like Christ and to love others as Christ loves us. A few questions that should get you thinking okay? You do not have to answer them, but I ask them out of brotherly concern. I would like for you to avoid using Revelations since it is prophecy, but look at the historical section instead.
Would Christ celebrate the death of a sinner? The way that this father acted was it in accordance to what Christ did when confronted with sins just as equally bad as this one? Do you celebrate every time that you sin and fail in keeping God's commandments? Do you wish that you would be killed for your sin by another person? Would you celebrate your death if done in this manner? By celebrating this man's death are you showing and adhering to love your neighbor as Christ loves you?
Hey Dark i agree ! Rape a 7 year old girl for 2 years scare her to silence and do 9 months with 3 months off for good behavior yeah your right... very right...
D4Christ
Member
I get what you are saying but I think you might be missing the sentiment behind some of the remarks of the outraged so to speak on this thread. It isn't about celebrating the death of a sinner...it's about the celebration over evil. Unfortunately evil is going to be represented by someone. But as we know, everyone does not belong to the Lord. So when one of the ones that belong to the devil fall, I don't feel real bad about it.
It this man was to have a change of heart and repent and turn to the Lord, do you suspect that God would have him caught in the act and killed, putting him in a position where he could not ask for repentance? I feel that if he was meant to repent and change he would have...even if it was from prision. Imho, this man died when he was fully consumed by Satan. One less predator to attack God's children. I think Christ would have surely called a spade a spade in this instance.
But I don't think people are celebrating...that's the word that has been used to express the relief that many of us here feel...relief that this man can no longer harm another child.
E
Elijah674
Guest
You miss my point intirely 'i' think? Every day we make judgements. In this case it was one that needed no jury trial, or one or two witnesses. And if the justified executioner is tried & he himself were executed for murder, instead of this being an justified execution??? (which might be?) Then the point is that his conscience will still be clear. Acts 5:29
--Elijah
PS: And you say... 'There are those who are celebrating that he is dead'. Even that is a judgement call. And surely you can not back that up with being able to read anothers motives.
CalledToServe
Member
I understand the sentiment but I disapprove of it. I am a sexual abuse survivor and I know all too well what pedophiles are plus what they are capable of. However, I am able to put aside my personal feelings to be like Christ because that is what God demands of me and of all Christians.
One cannot celebrate the overcoming of evil through death and destruction. That is not what Christ taught. We can celebrate overcoming of evil by using love and being Christ-like. If this pedophile had lived he might have given his life to the Lord and overcome the evil that is in him. Now he does not have that chance. This is what I mean by celebrating the overcoming of evil through love. Now that this pedophile is dead he has no chance of being saved and so we should be saddened by this fact.
handy
Member
I don't rejoice in the death of the molester, I'm neither glad nor angry... I feel that his death is in God's hands.
As for the father, I don't believe in "justifiable homicide"... The police should always investigate cases like this, which they are and are handing all evidence over to the district attorney who will decide if it warrants investigating by a grand jury. If the police, district attorney and grand jury (if it gets that far) are all satisfied that the father acted out of defense of his little girl and the death was caused far more by the molester's actions... then I don't see a reason to take it any further. This is different than the Zimmerman case where there was no clear reason why someone was killed. The man wasn't just suspicious in someone's opinion... he was actively attacking a little girl.
The father certainly acted in defense of his helpless little girl and was justifiably angry. However, in his anger he did kill a man. We none of us can judge his heart that he wasn't out-of-control. God can, and if he did sin in his anger and did intend to kill the man, then God will judge that.
I say, as long as the authorities believe there is no reason to charge the father with anything, leave both the father and the molester in God's hand and He will judge rightly.
As for the father, I don't believe in "justifiable homicide"... The police should always investigate cases like this, which they are and are handing all evidence over to the district attorney who will decide if it warrants investigating by a grand jury. If the police, district attorney and grand jury (if it gets that far) are all satisfied that the father acted out of defense of his little girl and the death was caused far more by the molester's actions... then I don't see a reason to take it any further. This is different than the Zimmerman case where there was no clear reason why someone was killed. The man wasn't just suspicious in someone's opinion... he was actively attacking a little girl.
The father certainly acted in defense of his helpless little girl and was justifiably angry. However, in his anger he did kill a man. We none of us can judge his heart that he wasn't out-of-control. God can, and if he did sin in his anger and did intend to kill the man, then God will judge that.
I say, as long as the authorities believe there is no reason to charge the father with anything, leave both the father and the molester in God's hand and He will judge rightly.
CalledToServe
Member
I agree wholeheartedly with what you've said. I have no contention with this stance. I just took exception that Christians were celebrating a sinner's death and claiming they were reveling in overcoming evil.
handy
Member
I too am a survivor of sexual abuse and molestation as a young girl. I can say something for the power of being able to actively forgive one's abuser and the healing that brings.
However, living here in Idaho and hearing what my nephew who worked the Joseph Duncan case had to put up with with that monster, I also know that child molester's get very little jail time and go out to molest and do far, far worse to children over and over and over and over.
I really do believe that anyone who is convicted of molesting a child should get a minimum of 25 years in prison... minimum. And, if they are released, they need to be monitored for life and have life long probation.
As for celebrating over evil..... I have a hard time with that if it comes down to a person...
For instance, Hitler's suicide. Frankly, it was just as well that he killed himself. However, should I actively "celebrate" it? I don't think so. I would have celebrated the end of the war, certainly... hanging out on the street corners and kissing the sailors and soldiers that were finally able to come home... yes, that's a good thing to celebrate... celebrate that fighting has stopped or that evil can no longer be perpetrated... yep, that can be celebrated. But a person's suicide? That's best left in God's hands.
It sounds as if the father was anything but "celebrating"... he was extremely remorseful. And, I can understand why. I don't condemn him for what he did... but, I wouldn't "celebrate" it either.
However, I also understand the relief that people feel knowing that there is one less predator out after our kids.
Frankly, this is a very complicated subject... Feelings are going to run wild and everyone will need to bring their own thought's captive. Actions however need to be correct... and I believe that the police, DA, even the father are acting correctly.
However, living here in Idaho and hearing what my nephew who worked the Joseph Duncan case had to put up with with that monster, I also know that child molester's get very little jail time and go out to molest and do far, far worse to children over and over and over and over.
I really do believe that anyone who is convicted of molesting a child should get a minimum of 25 years in prison... minimum. And, if they are released, they need to be monitored for life and have life long probation.
As for celebrating over evil..... I have a hard time with that if it comes down to a person...
For instance, Hitler's suicide. Frankly, it was just as well that he killed himself. However, should I actively "celebrate" it? I don't think so. I would have celebrated the end of the war, certainly... hanging out on the street corners and kissing the sailors and soldiers that were finally able to come home... yes, that's a good thing to celebrate... celebrate that fighting has stopped or that evil can no longer be perpetrated... yep, that can be celebrated. But a person's suicide? That's best left in God's hands.
It sounds as if the father was anything but "celebrating"... he was extremely remorseful. And, I can understand why. I don't condemn him for what he did... but, I wouldn't "celebrate" it either.
However, I also understand the relief that people feel knowing that there is one less predator out after our kids.
Frankly, this is a very complicated subject... Feelings are going to run wild and everyone will need to bring their own thought's captive. Actions however need to be correct... and I believe that the police, DA, even the father are acting correctly.