[_ Old Earth _] The Age of the Earth – The Helium Clock

[Tri Unity]

What you posted is not exactly correct either...

I was particularly referring to the moment of inflation - not the period of expansion since the Big Bang. This "inflation" period - in which the universe expanded to its adolescent size within a split second - is found within the explanations presented on NASA'a website:

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/starsgalaxies/wmap_pol.html

View attachment 2774

The time period of 13.7 billion years is dependant on redshift observations - which are not universally accepted. Ridicule is part of our culture - they ridiculed Christ and called Him Beelzebub! God had ordained that this must be so, so it doesn't particularly matter that we go through this - it is what helps crystallize our faith. God had determined and ordained this to occur, so we do not need to try and escape it (IMO). It allows us to re-examine our faith in light of common perceptions that are held by the world at large. Plato, Aristotle, Aristarchus and Ptolemy all lived before the apostles... the apostles were also living in a world where scientific views were supreme and christian views were ridiculed as unintelligent. There is nothing new under the sun...

God Bless

 

[cupid dave]

Ridicule is part of our culture - they ridiculed Christ and called Him Beelzebub! God had ordained that this must be so, so it doesn't particularly matter that we go through this - it is what helps crystallize our faith.
God had determined and ordained this to occur, so we do not need to try and escape it (IMO). It allows us to re-examine our faith in light of common perceptions that are held by the world at large. Plato, Aristotle, Aristarchus and Ptolemy all lived before the apostles... the apostles were also living in a world where scientific views were supreme and christian views were ridiculed as unintelligent. There is nothing new under the sun...

God Bless

Well certainly I am getting "crystalize" by both the christians and the atheists in that case.

What seems to be happening is that the church people insist that Genesis says what they have been erroneously saying it says for hundreds of years.
They will not reconsider their private denominational interpetations in light that science actually confirms the Bible, IMHO.

Already diverse from one another, these churches maintain their position on things which are clearly wrong, and will even do all in their power to silence discussions once they see they are wrong.
In the meantime, atheists and bible bashers and people like Bill Maher attack and ridicule the Bible indirectly, by mocking the erroneous teachings of the established churches on these rather innane and almost non-spiritual issues.

My position is that I defend what the Bible says as factually supportable and academically and scientifically true.

Consequencely, I have to be even handed in correcting the church people when they mis-state the Biboe and likewise, explain what the Bible actully says to the science critics.

 

[cupid dave]

I was particularly referring to the moment of inflation - not the period of expansion since the Big Bang.

This "inflation" period - in which the universe expanded to its adolescent size within a split second - is found within the explanations presented on NASA'a website:

Yes, the Big Bang refers to seven stages of events, the initial split second event was followed by an inflation according to science.
It is of little more importance to me that science people acknowledge that prior to 1940, they did not agree that the universe had a beginning.
They held out that the cosmos had always been there, was eternal and would remain eternal.
This contradicted Genesis.

Now, that their science supports Gen 1:1, christians need to acknowledge that wondeful truth and marvel that the Bible writers had signed that fact in stone with great confidence.

But I don;t hear that from the churches.
I heard agruments against science when we ought applaud the proof finally brought to the church door.

Then science says that the Earth was an accretion ring, still void as a sphere.
Those murky watery-like rocks, for a long time, spun around the early Sun, and on the face of that ring was darkness.
Pretty much exactly what we read in Gen 1:2.

Where is the applause from the churches????

Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form, (a spinning cloud of molten matter and gases), and void: (not valid as a sphere yet- i.e.; an accretion disk), and darkness: [choshek: obscurity] was upon the face (of the disk) of the deep: [tehowm: the deep primeval abyss of the thick ring].
And (the great Shechinah), the spirit, (the pan-en-theistic Natural Laws) of God moved upon the face: [paniym: presence] of the "waters" (i.e.; of these transitory things spinning counter clockwise around the Sun: [mayim: Hebrew])

 

[Tri Unity]

My position is that I defend what the Bible says as factually supportable and academically and scientifically true... Consequencely, I have to be even handed in correcting the church people when they mis-state the Biboe and likewise, explain what the Bible actully says to the science critics.

The reasons why any of us believe what we do is somewhat of a mystery. Even in science there are things that depend on faith... In The Infinite Cosmos, by Joseph Silk, he says: "We cannot prove the cosmological principal; it is a matter of philosophy or even faith, albeit faith that is highly motivated."

God has given us all different gifts and limitations that push us forward and pull us back. No one is the same. We struggle against laws and forces before we are born, and defeating gravity in our first steps is innate to us all. But how far do we go in our pursuit of grandeur? Is a high school education enough, or should we go further? Is the Lord's Prayer enough, or should we go further? Who gets to decide how far we take our education? Who decided when we have found the path of least resistance? The answer to these questions is (IMO) the reason why we are even alive in the first place. God has given us strengths and weaknesses so that we might discover our balance, or pendulum physics. We are gravitated and moved by physical as well as psychological forces that help groom us so that we might discover ourselves. What we settle for, ideologically or morally, is the net result of our development. This is why we are here... God judges all men on their net development, which is discovered and developed by our own motivations and desires. When we choose to crawl instead of walking or running, that is our choice that we become judged on. We must all go through this. God rewards people with truth or punishes people with error as we progress or digress. In the resurrection we will learn the wisdom of our choices. We cannot force a person to see things who has been blinded by God as a punishment. Many false doctrines are assigned to us by God, who sent upon us a "strong delusion" (2 Thess 2:11). All of us are blind in some way or another; which is designed to prevent us from judging others. We become qualified by what we practice, not by what we know. Anyway, as I said, it is all a bit mysterious of what leads us to believe what we do.

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:44) After we come to Christ we are given the rules of the Kingdom that help to identify us ready for the resurrection. God is mysterious!

 

[Adam]

This is interesting.

While you have enumerated only seven "stages", the graphic depicts at least nine.

The actual stages of the Big Bang to present day are more like 20, however, not your magic "7" number.

 

[cupid dave]

This is interesting.

While you have enumerated only seven "stages", the graphic depicts at least nine.

The actual stages of the Big Bang to present day are more like 20, however, not your magic "7" number.

LOL
Count between the eginnings and ends of events.

(1) marks the end of the Big Bang/unknown events.
(2) marks the end of unknown events/ubatomics

...so on....

Read the chart correctly.

The first Stage begins with the Big Bang and ends in 10^-43 sec. while the 2nd duration begins thereafter awith the formation of sub-atomic particles and ends with beginning of the next stage when electrons and positrons annihilate one another. so on s forth, equals seven durations.

The first day of the Hadean Era begins with the end of the formation of Galaxies, and takes us into the six geological eras which we Now can in the events marked by the major six layers of rocks.

 

[Adam]

Still nine.


And the Hadean era is in regard to the earth's formation, not any galaxies or any other cosmological events.


Please, if you are going to LOL, at least have something true or of value to follow it up with rather than one of your baseless assumptions that have already been disproven.

 

[cupid dave]

Still nine.


And the Hadean era is in regard to the earth's formation, not any galaxies or any other cosmological events.


Please, if you are going to LOL, at least have something true or of value to follow it up with rather than one of your baseless assumptions that have already been disproven.

I can't LOL now because you still can count the phases from that chart and arrive at seven BEFORE the morning of the Hadean Era.

Try this break down and compare the two charts so you get it straight:

 

[Adam]

Time magazine is sourcing a children's book image. This is not an academic chart. It is rudimentary and lacking in any specific breakdown of the stages of the expansion of the universe.

Here is a chart more suited for grownups:

 

[cupid dave]

Time magazine is sourcing a children's book image. This is not an academic chart. It is rudimentary and lacking in any specific breakdown of the stages of the expansion of the universe.

Here is a chart more suited for grownups:

Yes, simplicity is desirable so even a child might grasp the significance of this correspondence.
But the awareness of the Urim and Thummim influences Theistic Evolutionists in making a personal choice between different science reporters whoi divide the whole Era into seven and more or less.


You graphic pretty much agrees with the way the most scientists sum up the seven steps of the Formative Era, prior to the earth becoming a solid sphere:


Gen. 1:1 In the beginning, (theFormative/Cosmology Era), God, (the Uncaused First Cause, or the DarkEnergy which pre-existed the material Universe, perhaps), created...(all that which has followed the Big Bang from the singularity of Planck Timewhich consisted of



Seven Stages:

1) The Inflation Era

2) The Quark Era

3) Hadron Era

4) Lepton Era

5) Nucleosynthesis Era

6) Opaque Era

7) Matter Era,...

in an enormous Einsteinian energytransformation, E = mC^2),...

... the (matter composing the)heaven (beyond the Solar System) and the (accretion disk whichcongealed into the planet) earth.





(Gen 1:1)

http://kofh2u.tripod.com/id19.html


Some of the subjective ordering of the events do not appear to us the ordering system of the Urim and Thummim recommendtions, but nevertheless basically agree depending only upon the quirkiness of choosing to include or separate minor sub-events.





Here is another science reporter collecting the events arbitrarily into eight (8) Stages, which the Urim and Thummim could accomodate if one insisted.

 

[Adam]

There are 7 divisions before we even get to the photon epoch.

• 1 Very early universe
  • 1.1 Planck epoch
  • 1.2 Grand unification epoch
  • 1.3 Electroweak epoch
    • 1.3.1 Inflationary epoch
    • 1.3.2 Baryogenesis
• 2 Early universe
  • 2.1 Supersymmetry breaking
  • 2.2 Quark epoch
  • 2.3 Hadron epoch
  • 2.4 Lepton epoch
  • 2.5 Photon epoch
    • 2.5.1 Nucleosynthesis
    • 2.5.2 Matter domination
    • 2.5.3 Recombination
    • 2.5.4 Dark ages
• 3 Structure formation
  • 3.1 Reionization
  • 3.2 Formation of stars
  • 3.3 Formation of galaxies
  • 3.4 Formation of groups, clusters and superclusters
  • 3.5 Formation of the solar system
  • 3.6 Today

 

[wonby1]

Hi Grazer. Perhaps you should start your own thread to promote evolution. You are entitled to whatever opinion you want. For me personally, belief in evolution by christians is spiritual blindness. It is actually a punishment from God. When we make compromises in the name of religion by mixing church and state, or sport, music, pubs, clubs... all of this leads to a watered down liberalism - and this is our reward for what the bible calls being "luke-warm". This thread, however, is on helium diffusion in the atmosphere. If you want to start another thread to promote evolution that would be up to you. Thanks

Science does nothing but study the material universe.

Fact: God is a spirit and cannot be studied via the material universe.

Fact: Science has determined that the earth is billions of years old and the universe is about 15 billion years old. They have done so using a variety of unrelated tools.


I will conceed that belief is needed in science, much like it is for someone of faith. For you see, belief assigns value and importance to facts. It then connects the dots regarding other facts and tries to find correlations and interelationships that may exist. In short, we could not exist without a belief system. It is how we make sense of the world around us, in fact, I submit it is the only way. After all, very little can be proven in this world and the more we know the more we realize we don't know.

Jesus once said to not build your house on sandy ground. For me, this is a belief system in a nut shell. For you see, we all have a belief system and if we build our belief system on inherent falsehoods, the entire structure will someday fall. The kicker is that the more we build and invest in the structure, the more we have a vested interest in keeping that structure standing and the more time we spend defending that belief system. I see this from both established scientists and theologians. Examples of this are the Creation Museum in Kentucky and the God Delusion written by Dawkins. Both are laughable works that were created to defend a particular belief at all costs. Neither work was interested in finding the truth, rather, only defending their belief system. For you see, to threaten someones belief system is to threaten how they make sense of the world a crisis of sorts begins. It is then understandable why we avoid it at all costs.

 

[Tri Unity]

Fact: Science has determined that the earth is billions of years old and the universe is about 15 billion years old. They have done so using a variety of unrelated tools.

False.

Science has not proven the universe is 15 billion years old - science has simply found a "scientific" explanation that gives plausibility to this theory. They have found a complete array of science tricks to create this illusion. However, for as many explanations there are to "prove" evolution; there are twice as many to disprove it. Only the "evolution science" gets the coverage though. The alternate views are kept from the general public and are not discussed.

The establishment of governments and industry are at war against the overwhelming power and influence of religious institutions; so these two - government and industry - have a pact to keep religion at bay by using the theory of evolution to disarm religious power in the political and economic community. By controlling the community, media and learning institutions, the impression is given to the masses that the lie of evolution is true. This is similar to how Hitler had duped the masses.

God Bless

 

[lordkalvan]

False.

Science has not proven the universe is 15 billion years old - science has simply found a "scientific" explanation that gives plausibility to this theory. They have found a complete array of science tricks to create this illusion. However, for as many explanations there are to "prove" evolution; there are twice as many to disprove it. Only the "evolution science" gets the coverage though. The alternate views are kept from the general public and are not discussed.

The establishment of governments and industry are at war against the overwhelming power and influence of religious institutions; so these two - government and industry - have a pact to keep religion at bay by using the theory of evolution to disarm religious power in the political and economic community. By controlling the community, media and learning institutions, the impression is given to the masses that the lie of evolution is true. This is similar to how Hitler had duped the masses.

God Bless

Wow, way to go with the Evil Global Atheist Conspiracy thing. I particularly liked the bait'n'switch from denying cosmological evidence to asserting that this false evidence is used to 'prove' evolution.

 

[Tri Unity]

Wow, way to go with the Evil Global Atheist Conspiracy thing. I particularly liked the bait'n'switch from denying cosmological evidence to asserting that this false evidence is used to 'prove' evolution.

LOL.

God Bless

 

[lordkalvan]

LOL.

God Bless

Glad to provide a chuckle-break.

 

[Barbarian]

There are many evolutionists that will attempt to rebutt the bible, God, creation, or any science that is used to expose the errors of evolution.

You are not God, and helium concentrations are not the Bible. It helps to maintain a bit of humility when discussing such things.

Faith is the driving force of evolution and creation...

If you ask most Christians why we believe we say we have faith in God. If you ask most scientists why we accept evolution, we tell you about the evidence. If this seems like the same thing to you, you are in spiritual trouble.

you need faith to believe God and you need faith to disbelieve God.

That is a lack of faith.

Evolution and creation are in a faith war.

Nope. In fact, many important scientists who advanced evolutionary theory are and have been theists.

Learn about the subject and it will trouble you no more.

 

[Grazer]

Creation and evolution are not at war any more than Frank Wittle is at war with the laws of physics

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

 

[Arch Angle]

Just a minor point, when push comes to shove, we don't rebut the bible.

We rebut how people use the bible. There is a clear difference.

when I want to find out how to cook, I go to a cook book.

when I want to learn math, I got a math book.

when I want to see how god does things, I go to a chemistry, physics, and biologybook.

When I what to find out "what am I?", I go to the bible. When I try to be a better person, I try andfollow Christ.

 

[cupid dave]

Just a minor point, when push comes to shove, we don't rebut the bible.

We rebut how people use the bible. There is a clear difference.
]

EXACTLY...



There WERE seven long Cosmic"days" since that Big Bang, which we call the geological Eras.

1. Formative/Cosmologic Era-Hadean Era/ = First Day

2. Hadean Era-Archaean Era/ = Second Day

3. Archaean Era-Proterozoic Era/ = Third Day

4. Proterozoic Era-Paleozoic Era/ = Fourth Day

5. Paleozoic Era-Mesozoic Era/ = Fifth Day

6. Mesozoic Era-Cenozoic Era/ = Six Day

7. Cenozoic Era-Common Era/ = Seventh Day