The battle of Ezekiel 38 and it's timing.

[Adstar]

Hello all

I thought i would give some thoughts on the Battle fortold in Ezekiel 38. And as to why i see it as happening 1000 years after the return of the Messiah.

Enjoy.

Revelation 20
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are.

Now Gog Magog is mentioned once in the OT in Ezekiel 38 and again in the Revelation 20. In Revelation 20 this great battle and slaughter happens After the 1000 year reign of the Messiah Jesus. But the naming of Gog Magog is not the only interesting fact that leads me to believe that Ezekiel 38 happens at the end of the 1000 years. Lets read:

Ezekiel 38
1 Now the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3 and say, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal. 4 I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out, with all your army, horses, and horsemen, all splendidly clothed, a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords. 5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya are with them, all of them with shield and helmet; 6 Gomer and all its troops; the house of Togarmah from the far north and all its troops—many people are with you.

Stop there. Now it mentions the troops from Persia Ethiopia and Libya. Why does the prophecy not mention the Egyptians? Where are they Syrians? or Sinar/Iraq? Where are all these peoples? Are the Libyans going to march through Egypt to attack Israel while the whole Egyptian nation sits quietly as the tanks roll by? Are the Iraqi's going to be doing the same when the Persians head west to Israel? And likewise is Syria and Lebanon going to take no part with the armies of the north? What has happened to these nations like Egypt and Syria? Could it be at the time of this war that these nations no longer exist? that they where destroyed 1000 years before and their lands where incorporated into the Messianic Kingdom? Take the time now to read Ezekiel 32 starting from verse 11 to the end.

God promised to the descendants of Abraham a promised land that was far bigger than the one that He established for them in the time of Moses. lets read about it.

Genesis 15
17 And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. 18 On the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying:
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates

So God has promised the descendants of Abraham will have a Land that includes the Nile and the Euphrates. Now Persia borders the land of the Euphrates to the east and Libya borders the land of the Nile to the west and Ethiopia borders the land of the Nile to the south. So at the time of Ezekiel the nations of Libya Ethiopia and Persia will border the greater Messianic Kingdom of the Messiah Jesus.

So the reason that the nations like Egypt and Syria are not mentioned in Ezekiel 38 is because they will have long been destroyed 1000 years before the battle detailed in Ezekiel 38.

Now let us continue to read Ezekiel 38:

7 “Prepare yourself and be ready, you and all your companies that are gathered about you; and be a guard for them. 8 After many days you will be visited. In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate; they were brought out of the nations, and now all of them dwell safely.

Now stop."visited". Who is going to visit them in the latter years? lets read Revelation 20 again:

Revelation 20
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them

Also note how Ezekiel describes the condition of safety of the people dwelling in Israel: "now all of them dwell safely." Does that describe the state of affairs of Israel today?? No not in the slightest. But to make the distinction more clear read on for the next 2 verses that more clearly describe the idyllic situation that will prevail in Israel at this time:

Ezekiel38
9 You will ascend, coming like a storm, covering the land like a cloud, you and all your troops and many peoples with you.â€
10 ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “On that day it shall come to pass that thoughts will arise in your mind, and you will make an evil plan: 11 You will say, ‘I will go up against a land of unwalled villages; I will go to a peaceful people, who dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates’

With no walls? no bars nor gates? Look at Israel today look at the walls, the barbed wire, the compounds, the bars, the perilous state of security. Do the people of Israel dwell in peace and safety? Or in a state of siege and under threat of terror?

What kind of society needs no walls no bars or even gates? Israel today or Israel during the Reign of The Messiah Jesus? Come to think of it does any society today live in peace and safety with no need for security walls or bars or gates?

Ezekiel 38
12 to take plunder and to take booty, to stretch out your hand against the waste places that are again inhabited, and against a people gathered from the nations, who have acquired livestock and goods, who dwell in the midst of the land. 13 Sheba, Dedan, the merchants of Tarshish, and all their young lions will say to you, ‘Have you come to take plunder? Have you gathered your army to take booty, to carry away silver and gold, to take away livestock and goods, to take great plunder?’â€â€™

During the 1000 year rule of the Messiah Jesus, we are told that many of the nations will give up their precious things and make great offering of the wealth of the nations to the Messianic kingdom. Will it be all this wealth that they will be seeking to plunder, great plunder?


I believe most people have got the timing of this Ezekiel 38 battle wrong. It is not soon at all but fore tells of the final satanic rebellion that will happen at the end of the 1000 year reign of the Messiah Jesus.



[FONT=&quot]All Praise The Ancient Of Days[/FONT]

 

[Shilohsfoal]

That is well written.

 

[johnny botwright]

many believe the battle in Ezekiel takes place before Jesus returns? and is a different battle, to that of revelations.

For me, what does not tally, why if the saints are in the beloved city, with Jesus for 1000 years, then satan being loosened, gathers Magog and Gog, for this final battle.

After the battle in Ezekiel chapter 39 it states after God had delivered them, their hearts turned to God and from that day forth, they believed the Lord is their God.

how could this be the case, the saints with Jesus for a thousand years, and only after this battle, they believe the Lord is their God,???

And the walls come tumbling down.

No, they are not, and that's a point of dispute I have with people over the timing of this battle.

God specifically added the wording of "unwalled" in there for a reason. I've been told time and time again that its a sign of living in days where villages no longer need walls (such as now), but I disagree. There are lots of places in scripture that describes event to take place at or near the very end of the age and the tern "unwalled" is used in none of them, which makes this particular requirement of this battle unique.

It's telling that Israel is indeed currently a "walled" land, with a 400+ mile wall running through it, making it rather unique in the world today, and also making the requirement of an "unwalled" land even more relevant.

The term "unwalled" is not just some extra throw-away fact in the scriptures, it has a real purpose, and unwalled means just that, unwalled.

The Bill Salus book, Isralestine, is really onto something, I believe, when it explores the other unfulfilled prophecies which foretell the destruction of Damascus, parts of Syria, Lebanon, lower half of Jordan, the Palestinian people, etc.

When that occurs, Israel will have no immediate enemies and will no longer have use of that wall. Not to mention they will then have full control of the Dead Sea and its recently-discovered vast gold reserves underneath, combined with its natural gas and vast oil reserves they currently have as well as those they will capture in the Psalms 83 and Isaiah 17 conflicts. Israel will be come extremely wealthy.

In fact, wealth is the hook that causes the Ezekiel 38-39 war, (38:12) they come to "to seize spoil and carry off plunder". A motivation far different then what we see today, which is to rid the earth of the state of Israel, which is the exact motivation of the Psalms 83 conflict, (v4) "let us wipe them out as a nation; let the name of Israel be remembered no more!"

For these reasons, and some more, I do not believe the Gog and Magog battle is imminent, and cannot be until other requirements are met, and it also does not meet the requirements of the battle at the end of the trib either, partly of the reasons I've mentioned before.

I could be wrong of course. johnny

 

[Elvispelvis]

You are describing to different battles that is why you can not make them fit.

Many people mix Gog And Magog with Ezk 38 when they are misled, because they do not know what Gog And Magog means.
To say Ezk 38 is in the future you have to deny Ezk 35, 36 37 38 39 40 etc that tell the complete
story of the restoration of Israel from Zech chaapter 14 which is the same battle with ps 83 and then to say all of them with Armageddon and the judgment seat of christ are all 1,000 years in the future.

When time permits I will try to start at Ezk 35 and look at the complete prophecy as one, from the destruction
of Israel and the remnant excepting Yeshua as King ,to the temple being built, by the Christ and the KIgdom Of God
coming on the earth with peace on earth and good will toward man.
To be contd.............................

 

[Strangelove]

God promised to the descendants of Abraham a promised land that was far bigger than the one that He established for them in the time of Moses. lets read about it.

Hey Adstar. Interesting thread. Not sure about the timing of the war but....

The descendents of Abraham. We are taught in the NT that believers in Christ are counted for the seed.

So wouldn't that mean that the land promised to those would be New Jerusalem?.....on the New Earth?

21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the
breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand
furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.​

12 thousand furlongs is about 2,400 Km.

The northern most point of the Euphrates = Elazig, Turkey

The southern most point of the Nile = Khartoum, Sudan

Distance between those 2 points?

Approx 12 thousand furlongs.

Just thinkin aloud.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I think the timing is dead on.
It wasnt that long ago that I had brought up the fact about the walls in another thread.My studies show the Little horn in the pleasant land(Daniel 8;9).His kingdom(the land of Israel)will be destroyed and consumed-(Daniel 7;26).
Then that land shall be given to the saints-(Daniel 7;27)

When his kingdom is consumed-down come the walls.

 

[Adstar]

I looked at the continuation of the scripture on the battle in Ezekiel 39. (and i do not understand why it has been placed in another chapter when it should all be in one chapter) I noted this portion of scripture.

Ezekiel 39
9 “Then those who dwell in the cities of Israel will go out and set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and bucklers, the bows and arrows, the javelins and spears; and they will make fires with them for seven years.


How many armies of today are armed with Shields, Bucklers, bows, arrows, javelins and spears? Note how specific the passage is about these types of weapons.

Look at most mass-produced weapons of today. Most do not even have any wood in them.

But think.. What kind of world will people be living in after the return of Jesus. Do you think it is going to be a techno/industrial society? Or will it be a pastoral agricultural society that will not learn or have war for 1000 years? So that at the end of these 1000 years they will only be able to fashion basic weapons out of wood.

Clearly this is another reason why this battle is not going to be a modern day battle before the coming of the Messiah.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Hey Adstar. Interesting thread. Not sure about the timing of the war but....

The descendents of Abraham. We are taught in the NT that believers in Christ are counted for the seed.

I have a slightly varied belief and i have posted to you before about the 144,000 innocents of the tribes of Israel that will be preserved during the time of the tribulation and wrath of the Day of the Lord. The book of Revelation clearly points out how they are made up of 12,000 from each tribe. Gods preservation of this Remnant does not undermine His saving of us the seed of the faith of Abraham. For being innocents He can preserve them. Being innocents they will be without sin at the time of the return of the Messiah and will therefore not be in need of the blood of the Messiah at that moment in time.

So both the Spiritual seeds of Abraham, us, and a remnant of the Physical seed of Abraham can both have a beginning in the 1000 year kingdom. The difference being that they will grow up have children and grow old and die. While we shall exist in the kingdom in eternal bodies and will always be with Jesus. We take part in the first resurrection. The 144.000 are not transformed or resurrected but live lives under the perfect rule of the Messiah and His resurrected/transformed Saints.


At the end of the 1000 years when the armies of Gog and Magog attack the saints are shown to be living in a separated location from Jerusalem.


Revelation 20
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city.


So the camp of the saints is mentioned separate to the beloved city.

So wouldn't that mean that the land promised to those would be New Jerusalem?.....on the New Earth?

21:16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the
breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand
furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

12 thousand furlongs is about 2,400 Km.

The northern most point of the Euphrates = Elazig, Turkey

The southern most point of the Nile = Khartoum, Sudan

Distance between those 2 points?

Approx 12 thousand furlongs.

Just thinkin aloud.

The New Jerusalem does not come down out of heaven until the end of the 1000 year reagin of the Messiah. (not that the reign of the Messiah will ever end but I am talking about the specific 1000 years before the final judgement) This happens between the battle of Armageddon and the final satan lead Gog magog rebellion.

Also i have looked into "furlong" It seem that there may have been different measurements for a furlong. Roman furlongs. Jewish furlongs and modern English furlongs are different. I am not sure they will total to 2400km i have seen the figure of 1000 km.

And also another stand out fact about the New Jerusalem it is 12,000 furlongs HIGH. Many people seem unable to take that in. The New Jerusalem is astoundingly Massive. If it sits on the surface of the earth it's top will be in outer space.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Joel 2 seems more like a description of a modern army and the Day of the Lord. Not Ezekiel 38,39

Joel 2
1 Blow the trumpet in Zion,
And sound an alarm in My holy mountain!
Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble;
For the day of the LORD is coming,
For it is at hand:
2 A day of darkness and gloominess,
A day of clouds and thick darkness,
Like the morning clouds spread over the mountains.
A people come, great and strong,
The like of whom has never been;
Nor will there ever be any such after them,
Even for many successive generations.
3 A fire devours before them,
And behind them a flame burns;
The land is like the Garden of Eden before them,
And behind them a desolate wilderness;
Surely nothing shall escape them.
4 Their appearance is like the appearance of horses;
And like swift steeds, so they run.
5 With a noise like chariots
Over mountaintops they leap,
Like the noise of a flaming fire that devours the stubble,
Like a strong people set in battle array.
6 Before them the people writhe in pain;
All faces are drained of color.
7 They run like mighty men,
They climb the wall like men of war;
Every one marches in formation,
And they do not break ranks.
8 They do not push one another;
Every one marches in his own column.
Though they lunge between the weapons,
They are not cut down.
9 They run to and fro in the city,
They run on the wall;
They climb into the houses,
They enter at the windows like a thief.
10 The earth quakes before them,
The heavens tremble;
The sun and moon grow dark,
And the stars diminish their brightness.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[johnny botwright]

i to like your self, have pondered the use of weapons, this was written along time ago, Ezekiel would have no concept of modern war fare, the instruments of war,
some say what some scripture describes, looks like a nuclear exchange.
like wise some decriptions of things like hornets flying,scorpoins, ect sptting fire, how would you have descripted a fighter jet, helicopter gun ship,firing missiles. if you had seen this in a vision, a few thousand years ago.

was Ezekiel adding this to portray the scale of the battle, or is it literel. ?

like wise as ive mentioned before does it really take a thousand years and this battle, for the people hearts to be turned to God, Ezekiel 39 to declare after this event, from this day forward, the people believed the Lord is God?

johnny

 

[Sinthesis]

I have a slightly varied belief and i have posted to you before about the 144,000 innocents of the tribes of Israel that will be preserved during the time of the tribulation and wrath of the Day of the Lord. The book of Revelation clearly points out how they are made up of 12,000 from each tribe. Gods preservation of this Remnant does not undermine His saving of us the seed of the faith of Abraham. For being innocents He can preserve them. Being innocents they will be without sin at the time of the return of the Messiah and will therefore not be in need of the blood of the Messiah at that moment in time.

I am against your interpretation O Adstar! 2

But seriously, it seems rather benign other than the part I've underlined. Where in the world did you get the idea that there are people who don't need the atonement of Christ from conception?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

i to like your self, have pondered the use of weapons, this was written along time ago, Ezekiel would have no concept of modern war fare, the instruments of war,
some say what some scripture describes, looks like a nuclear exchange.
like wise some decriptions of things like hornets flying,scorpoins, ect sptting fire, how would you have descripted a fighter jet, helicopter gun ship,firing missiles. if you had seen this in a vision, a few thousand years ago.

was Ezekiel adding this to portray the scale of the battle, or is it literel. ?

like wise as ive mentioned before does it really take a thousand years and this battle, for the people hearts to be turned to God, Ezekiel 39 to declare after this event, from this day forward, the people believed the Lord is God?

johnny

Johnny.It says when God gathers them into thier own land,he will not hide his face from them.Then they would know.
This happens before the Gog magog war.They would have been gatherd 1000 years before the Gog Magog war.What is written only proves the Gog Magog war takes place after God has gatherd Israel from the nations.And when he gathers them they will know he is God.

The problem you have is you dont know who Israel is.
You believe the beast is Israel because he calls himself by that name.
The antichrists in the land of Israel today were not gatherd by God nor do they know God.The only thing they claim is Christ has not come and they claim Jesus is a false prophet.They dont know God.When Jesus gathers Israel into thier own land ,they will come from the east and west.But the children who are in the kingdom when Jesus comes will be cast out.You need to listen to Jesus concerning this.



Mt 8;11-12
And I say unto you,That many shall come from the east and west,and shall sit down with Abraham,and Issac,and Jacob,in the kingdom of heaven.
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness;there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

The 144,000 are in need of the blood of the Lamb.
If Jesus doesnt wash them,they can have no part with him,just as Jesus told Peter.

 

[Elvispelvis]

Eze 38:1 ¶ And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

Eze 38:2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,

And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

Just because Gog is mentioned here you can not say this is the battle in Revelations. Revelelations is a book of signs and symbols, metaphors, ambiguity , enigmas only understood by a very few in the whole world.
The land of Magog is also mentioned here not Magog but the land of Magog it is a land not a person.
What does Gog mean look it up in Hebrew.
the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal.
Thus saith The Mighty Ruler, YHWH I am against Meshech, not Magog.
Thus saith The Mighty Ruler YHWH I a, agianst thee Tubal, not Magog.
This is a totally different battle than Revelations just some words are the same because of the Hebrew
words for Gog And the Land Of Magog tell us who is attacking Israel and when.

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.

So if we compare the two we see ther is no mention of Meshech or Tubal or The Land of Magog.
Gog and Magog are cast into the lake of fire in Revelations.
Meshech and Tubal and the chief prince are destroyed on the mountains of Israel and it takes 7 months to bury the dead we are told in Ekzekiel 39 which is a contiuation of 38 which is a continuation of 37 etc.

Whether or not you called it unwalled villages or not wheather they dwell in safety or not has nothing to do with God's timetable. We are told when we see Israel become a nation then this geneeration is the one that
see the Lord Yeshua touch His foot on the mount old Olives and the great earthquake destroys His
enemies. The nation that attacks Israel is from the utter most part sof the North so draw a line due north
and you go through the land of Rosh=Russia with its capital city Meshech= Moscow
Presently Persia and Lybia And Ethiopia have special treaties with Moscow= Meshech.

nd say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

] Eze 38:4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts [of armour, even] a great company [with] bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

Eze 38:5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

Eze 38:6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: [and] many people with thee.

Presently Russia has special treaties with Europe, Gomer = France , Togarmah = Germany the European Economic Community and they are against Israel all together with The Pope blessing from the Treaty Of Rome.
They want to control Jerusalem and all the holy sites.

The battle is soon .

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Whether or not you called it unwalled villages or not wheather they dwell in safety or not has nothing to do with God's timetable. We are told when we see Israel become a nation then this geneeration is the one that

Unwalled villages ids describing the land.People who are at rest and dwell safely is describing the peoiple who dwell in that land.

Both these are not describing the people who dwell in the land of Israel nor is it describing the land as it is today.
No it is not very near.Jesus hasnt even gatherd Israel into his own land yet.

Does anyone on this board beside myself know who Israel is?
Ill give you a hint.Out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword.

 

[smaller]

Eze 38:1 ¶ And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

Eze 38:2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,

And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

Just because Gog is mentioned here you can not say this is the battle in Revelations. Revelelations is a book of signs and symbols, metaphors, ambiguity , enigmas only understood by a very few in the whole world.

Another foul.

1 Corinthians 10:11
Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

The land of Magog is also mentioned here not Magog but the land of Magog it is a land not a person.
What does Gog mean look it up in Hebrew.
the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal.

It means LAND OF MOUNTAINS.

The people of Israel are ALSO referred to as MOUNTAINS.

There are COMPETING MOUNTAINS.

Meshech and Tubal means they will be brought and DRAWN OUT, very similar to the workings described in Revelation.

These are indicitive of EVIL THOUGHTS in the MINDS of MANKIND.

Nothing overly mysterious about it if one is used to study by associations.

Thus saith The Mighty Ruler, YHWH I am against Meshech, not Magog.
Thus saith The Mighty Ruler YHWH I a, agianst thee Tubal, not Magog.
This is a totally different battle than Revelations just some words are the same because of the Hebrew
words for Gog And the Land Of Magog tell us who is attacking Israel and when.

ISRAEL has always been under THIS ATTACK. The physical attack in the Old Testament is a physical array of the SPIRITUAL REALITY of these matters.

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.

So if we compare the two we see ther is no mention of Meshech or Tubal or The Land of Magog.

Gathering them together surely is just as the terms MESHECH and TUBAL indicate.

They will be brought DOWN and OUT to the VALLEY OF DECISION where those THOUGHTS will be DESTROYED by THE LORD of the TEMPLE, The King of Kings.

Gog and Magog are cast into the lake of fire in Revelations.
Meshech and Tubal and the chief prince are destroyed on the mountains of Israel and it takes 7 months to bury the dead we are told in Ekzekiel 39 which is a contiuation of 38 which is a continuation of 37 etc.

Part of the cleansing. These matters point DIRECTLY to the DEVIL and his EVIL MESSENGERS in the MINDS of all mankind.

Whether or not you called it unwalled villages or not wheather they dwell in safety or not has nothing to do with God's timetable. We are told when we see Israel become a nation then this geneeration is the one that
see the Lord Yeshua touch His foot on the mount old Olives and the great earthquake destroys His
enemies. The nation that attacks Israel is from the utter most part sof the North so draw a line due north
and you go through the land of Rosh=Russia with its capital city Meshech= Moscow
Presently Persia and Lybia And Ethiopia have special treaties with Moscow= Meshech.

nd say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

] Eze 38:4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts [of armour, even] a great company [with] bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

Eze 38:5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

Eze 38:6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: [and] many people with thee.

Presently Russia has special treaties with Europe, Gomer = France , Togarmah = Germany the European Economic Community and they are against Israel all together with The Pope blessing from the Treaty Of Rome.
They want to control Jerusalem and all the holy sites.

The battle is soon .

Your understanding is really quite pathetic.

IF you want to see THE ENEMIES OF ISRAEL one only needs to turn to ROMANS 11 and see that the SPIRIT OF STUPOR was placed upon THEIR MINDS by God Himself in OUR behalves.

That SPIRIT will be REMOVED and DESTROYED by God in Christ.

That spirit is SATAN, THE GREAT DRAGON, THE DEVIL...

Whom you do not even ACCEPT as an anti-spiritual working, and instead you like many other so called 'believers' BLINDLY blame and accuse our fellow man.

Israel and mankind has been carrying OUR OWN ENEMIES for quite some time. Since the GARDEN in the form of the TEMPTER who is also connected to EVERY SIN done in EVERY MAN.

That working WILL COME TO A COMPLETE ENDING as depicted in REVELATION.

enjoy yer new glasses.

smaller

 

[Strangelove]

I have a slightly varied belief and i have posted to you before about the 144,000 innocents of the tribes of Israel that will be preserved during the time of the tribulation and wrath of the Day of the Lord. The book of Revelation clearly points out how they are made up of 12,000 from each tribe. Gods preservation of this Remnant does not undermine His saving of us the seed of the faith of Abraham. For being innocents He can preserve them.

I got no probs with God saving a remnant of racial Hebrews. It's my personal belief that these 144k will be what you say.

Being innocents they will be without sin at the time of the return of the Messiah and will therefore not be in need of the blood of the Messiah at that moment in time.

Um.....not quite sure what you mean there. They will have to look upon Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. If your just saying they are sinless and don't NEED the blood of Christ at that time then fair enough.

So both the Spiritual seeds of Abraham, us, and a remnant of the Physical seed of Abraham can both have a beginning in the 1000 year kingdom. The difference being that they will grow up have children and grow old and die. While we shall exist in the kingdom in eternal bodies and will always be with Jesus. We take part in the first resurrection. The 144.000 are not transformed or resurrected but live lives under the perfect rule of the Messiah and His resurrected/transformed Saints.


At the end of the 1000 years when the armies of Gog and Magog attack the saints are shown to be living in a separated location from Jerusalem.


Revelation 20
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city.


So the camp of the saints is mentioned separate to the beloved city.





The New Jerusalem does not come down out of heaven until the end of the 1000 year reagin of the Messiah. (not that the reign of the Messiah will ever end but I am talking about the specific 1000 years before the final judgement) This happens between the battle of Armageddon and the final satan lead Gog magog rebellion.

I still dont see how this gives any kind of land rights that can be attributed to the nation state of isreal?

Also i have looked into "furlong" It seem that there may have been different measurements for a furlong. Roman furlongs. Jewish furlongs and modern English furlongs are different. I am not sure they will total to 2400km i have seen the figure of 1000 km.

1000KM would fit quite nicely too actually as that is approx the shortest distance between the two rivers. (granted you could pick just about any distance and I could fit it to the two rivers...lolz). But 1000 and 2,500km do fit nicely.

And also another stand out fact about the New Jerusalem it is 12,000 furlongs HIGH. Many people seem unable to take that in. The New Jerusalem is astoundingly Massive. If it sits on the surface of the earth it's top will be in outer space.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I KNOW!! It's gonna be a sight to behold eh?

 

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[/SIZE][/FONT] I got no probs with God saving a remnant of racial Hebrews. It's my personal belief that these 144k will be what you say.

Cool.

Um.....not quite sure what you mean there. They will have to look upon Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. If your just saying they are sinless and don't NEED the blood of Christ at that time then fair enough.

Yes during their lives just like us they will need to accept the atonement of the Messiah Jesus just like us. But being innocents at the time of the Messiah's return they have not taken part in the rebellious and violent rejection of the Messiah as their pairents will do. They will not have taken part in the tribulation of the saints and they will not have taken part in the rejoicing at the death of the two witnesses who will lie in the streets of the city where our Messiah Jesus was crucified.

I still dont see how this gives any kind of land rights that can be attributed to the nation state of isreal?

I am not a supporter of the modern state of Israel. To me it is both a deception manufactured by agents of satan to decieve Christians in the end times and is also the final and biggest Jewish concentration camp ever set up. The same people who supported and financed Hitler also supported and financed the set up of Israel. Classical carrot and stick approach to get the Jews to work for the final deception and get them all in a fish bowel so that the beast can finaly wipe them out.

1000KM would fit quite nicely too actually as that is approx the shortest distance between the two rivers. (granted you could pick just about any distance and I could fit it to the two rivers...lolz). But 1000 and 2,500km do fit nicely.



I KNOW!! It's gonna be a sight to behold eh?

Sure is. The final word in Awesomeness If thats a word at all


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Strangelove]

I am not a supporter of the modern state of Israel. To me it is both a deception manufactured by agents of satan to decieve Christians in the end times and is also the final and biggest Jewish concentration camp ever set up. The same people who supported and financed Hitler also supported and financed the set up of Israel. Classical carrot and stick approach to get the Jews to work for the final deception and get them all in a fish bowel so that the beast can finaly wipe them out.

I knew that was your position, and glad to hear it, but I was confused I thought that the following paragraph in your post...

So God has promised the descendants of Abraham will have a Land that includes the Nile and the Euphrates. Now Persia borders the land of the Euphrates to the east and Libya borders the land of the Nile to the west and Ethiopia borders the land of the Nile to the south. So at the time of Ezekiel the nations of Libya Ethiopia and Persia will border the greater Messianic Kingdom of the Messiah Jesus.

....was describing the future advanced borders of the state of isreal which will be Jesus' Kingdom.

I think the problem I have is that...um....I don't think the 1000 year rule is literal. I think it will be a few months.

 

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I am against your interpretation O Adstar! 2

But seriously, it seems rather benign other than the part I've underlined. Where in the world did you get the idea that there are people who don't need the atonement of Christ from conception?

Directly from the Word of God himself to the people of Israel upon the occasion of their rebellion against His will when they initially refused to go into the promised land.

Taking about a shadow of the future in the OT, and clearly a shadow of this very topic we are talking about now. This incident also included in it two truthful witnesses to the promised land, Joshua the son of Nun and Caleb the son of Jephunneh. And just like the final two witnesses prophesised in the book of Revelation their witness was also rejected.

Read Numbers 14 for the full story if you want now and come back and read the following:



Deuteronomy 1:39
34 “And the LORD heard the sound of your words, and was angry, and took an oath, saying, 35 ‘Surely not one of these men of this evil generation shall see that good land of which I swore to give to your fathers, 36 except Caleb the son of Jephunneh; he shall see it, and to him and his children I am giving the land on which he walked, because he wholly followed the LORD.’ 37 The LORD was also angry with me for your sakes, saying, ‘Even you shall not go in there. 38 Joshua the son of Nun, who stands before you, he shall go in there. Encourage him, for he shall cause Israel to inherit it.
39 ‘Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it.

This is when the tribes of Israel where in the desert and refused to go into the Promised Land because of fear of it's inhabitants. God decided to punish the people by forcing them to wonder in the desert for 40 years so that all of the generation that had refused to enter the Promised Land would die and never enter it. But as He says above about the little ones

"WHO TODAY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL"

This is the crucial statement from God about the little ones (BABIES) they are innocent. Think of Adam and eve before they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, where they not Good. Did not the coming of the knowledge of Good and Evil to them cause them to fall from their state of goodness?
When did Adam and Eve come to need the Atoning blood of the Messiah Jesus... That’s right, After they came to have the knowledge of Good and Evil. And now here we hear God Himself says about the little ones "WHO TODAY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL".

That’s why they where spared from the judgment against their parents. All their parents died in the wilderness and never entered the promised land, But the little ones who where innocent where preserved through the 40 years trek in the wilderness to enter into the promised land. And that is a shadow of the 144,000 innocents whom will likewise be preserved through the tribulation and the wrath to also enter the promised Kingdom of the Messiah Jesus.

Don't you just love it when things just fall into place.





All Praise The Ancient Of Days