Bible Study "The Body of this Death" -NC

[netchaplain]

The above title is in reference to what Paul termed in the preceding chapter as “the body of sin†(Rom 6:6), having all its “members†(Col 3:5) within the Adamic nature and is the cause of both physical and spiritual death, which originated from Adams disobedience in his covenant with God (Gen 2:7). The “Dichotomy†between the believer’s new nature and the old is evidenced not only in Romans seven but also in Galatians 5:17. Paul’s contemplation of this internal conflict wasn’t just mere thought but an awareness of the co-existence of two natures or “lawsâ€.

The deliverance Paul speaks of in Romans 7:24 is, not from sin itself, but from the condemnation of sin (8:1); freedom “from the law of sin and death†(v 2). Before Christ, and after Adam broke his covenant, there was only one law -- the law of sin and death, which stipulates “The soul that sinneth, it shall die†(Eze 18:4, 20); which has been a perpetual law since Genesis 2:7 and will remain until Revelation 2:14.

Since Christ, a new law is in effect for the regenerate – “the law of the Spirit of life†(Rom 8:2).
This law “of life†is the only one to have ever procured eternal life because there is no other “law given which could have given life†(Gal 3:21). This new law has blotted “out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us . . . and took it out of te way, nailing it to His cross†(Col 2:14).

 

[Webers_Home]

.
The grammatical tense of "who shall deliver me" is future. In other words: Paul had not yet been liberated from the body of this death at the time of his writing Rom 7:9-25 but rather, anticipated liberation sometime in the future.

That's actually pretty good news because I would hate to think that believers have to struggle with evil thoughts and impulses even up in heaven.

The dead of Rev 20:11-15 are probably labeled "dead" because they won't be liberated from their bodies of death but will have to accompany them into the reservoir of liquefied flame to die all over again a second time; which you'd think would solve the problem, but according to Dan 12:2 and John 5:29, there's only one resurrection allotted per person; so nobody is coming back from the reservoir with a body of life because they will have used up their one resurrection to face justice at the Great White Throne.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Mitspa]

.
The grammatical tense of "who shall deliver me" is future. In other words: Paul had not yet been liberated from the body of this death at the time of his writing Rom 7:9-25 but rather, anticipated liberation sometime in the future.

That's actually pretty good news because I would hate to think that believers have to struggle with evil thoughts and impulses even up in heaven.

The dead of Rev 20:11-15 are probably labeled "dead" because they won't be liberated from their bodies of death but will have to accompany them into the reservoir of liquefied flame to die all over again a second time; which you'd think would solve the problem, but according to Dan 12:2 and John 5:29, there's only one resurrection allotted per person; so nobody is coming back from the reservoir with a body of life because they will have used up their one resurrection to face justice at the Great White Throne.

Buen Camino
/

I think Paul continued on in the epistle to say that we can be free from the bondage of sin, inasmuch as we yield to the "Spirit"
Rom 8:4

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10

And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 8:12

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Sorry Chaplain, hope I did not get in your way of teaching? your friend - Mitspa

 

[netchaplain]

Hi Web - I agree, when Paul said "shall" he intended it as a future event. He had already received deliverance from the "condemnation" (8:1) of "this body of death" and from its dominion (Rom 6:12, 14). My understanding of being free from its rule, or bondage as Mitspa indicated, means we're free from mandatory service to it, but not entirely free from its influence or urging, because we can still are tempted by it. Deliverance from the existence of this body of death will not occur until death or at the first resurrection.

One theologian wrote that "Philo the Jew represents this body as a burden to the soul, which "it carries about as a dead carcass," and never lays down from his birth till his death."

Our present deliverance is not freedom from sin and death, but freedom "from the law of sin and death" (8:2); which law is the curse of sin--eternal separation from God; which deliverance is evidenced by minding "the things of the Spirit" (8:5).

"Being then made free from sin" (Rom 6:18, 22). "Not from a sinful nature; nor from a corrupt heart; nor from vain thoughts; nor from sinful words; nor from sinful actions altogether; but from the damning power of sin: sin brought all men under a sentence of condemnation; Christ has bore the execution of this sentence in Himself for His people; hence, as considered in Him, they are free from it.

"Men are in a legal sense arraigned for sin, accused of it, and being convicted, are pronounced guilty before God; and such awakened souls have a sense of it in themselves, but the blood of Christ sprinkled on their consciences frees them from it, though fresh sins committed bring fresh guilt which requires the continual application of the blood of Jesus for pardon and cleansing." But what is chiefly designed here is freedom from the servitude of sin as appears from the context." - J Gill

Hi Mitspa and I already knew your reply wasn't intended to conflict but assist and thanks for mentioning it!

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

The above title is in reference to what Paul termed in the preceding chapter as “the body of sin†(Rom 6:6), having all its “members†(Col 3:5) within the Adamic nature and is the cause of both physical and spiritual death, which originated from Adams disobedience in his covenant with God (Gen 2:7). The “Dichotomy†between the believer’s new nature and the old is evidenced not only in Romans seven but also in Galatians 5:17. Paul’s contemplation of this internal conflict wasn’t just mere thought but an awareness of the co-existence of two natures or “lawsâ€.

The deliverance Paul speaks of in Romans 7:24 is, not from sin itself, but from the condemnation of sin (8:1); freedom “from the law of sin and death†(v 2). Before Christ, and after Adam broke his covenant, there was only one law -- the law of sin and death, which stipulates “The soul that sinneth, it shall die†(Eze 18:4, 20); which has been a perpetual law since Genesis 2:7 and will remain until Revelation 2:14.

Since Christ, a new law is in effect for the regenerate – “the law of the Spirit of life†(Rom 8:2).
This law “of life†is the only one to have ever procured eternal life because there is no other “law given which could have given life†(Gal 3:21). This new law has blotted “out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us . . . and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross†(Col 2:14).

The law of the Spirit is an actual artice of law. For those who refuse to or just negelect obeying it they will serve the penalty of eternal death.

 

[Mitspa]

The law of the Spirit is an actual artice of law. For those who refuse to or just negelect obeying it they will serve the penalty of eternal death.

Gal 2:21

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[Asyncritus]

There is a grave error being made in the interpretation of the verse in the OP.

I observe that the 'theologian' quoted also missed this very simple point.

The word 'body', in the Greek soma, does mean the physical body mostly, but it also means 'servant' in several places.

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body <4983> of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Note the definite connection being made here between 'body (= servant') of sin and 'that henceforth we should not serve sin'.

The verse is saying that the 'servant of sin is destroyed'.

Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body <4983>, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

The servant of sin obeys it's master who orders it to do wrong: and like any good servant, obeys the instructions given by the lusts.

Again note the figure of a mortal 'servant ' of sin, who is 'obeying ' it.

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body <4983> of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Meaning that you now are servants of Christ, and your allegiance is to another Master.

Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body <4983> of this death?

The 'body' of this death, is the servant of death, which comes because of 'sin' being served.

Who shall deliver me from being the servant of sin? Is the force of the statement - and the answer is 'Christ Jesus our Lord'. Notice the word 'Lord' which he inserts there - here is the new Master.

Additional confirmation of this comes from three very striking passages.

1 Genesis 12:5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother’s son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls (= servants) that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.

2 Revelation 18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls (= servants) of men

3 The oddest one of all comes from Hebrews 10:

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

As it stands there, it is almost entirely odd, and a very strange
verse indeed. Until we recognise that this is a quotation from Ps 45.

Ps 45: 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Which is just as strange, until we take note of the next verse:

6 ¶ Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened (= digged or pierced): burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

This refers to Ex.21, where the piercing of a slave's ear is prescribed if he did not want to leave his master's service.

6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

It is a declaration by the slave that he will remain as such forever, or as long as he lived, and would do the will of his master.

We could extend this further, but you can see that there is really very little problem in understanding the meaning of:

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

and finishes with:

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Remember too 6 v 23:

The wages (such as a servant receives) of (paid by the old master) sin is death...

 

[Eugene]

Your realization of the two natures is the key, the war of Amelek going forth from generation to generation, the battle within of flesh and the Spirit, and the solution; grace and its power to deliver from condemnation.

Condemnation is the factor keeping many from ever going forth in victory; conscience being the guilt holding us from appropriating all God's provision in Christ. As you brought forth in Colossians 2:14, that which was against us was nailed to the cross, but to realize that freedom we must believe it thus the utmost need of growing in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior.

 

[netchaplain]

Complete agreement with your reply Eugene! I like the way you explained it!!



Hi to Asyncritus and God's blessings to your Family! I'm going to continue to contemplate your reply because at present, I'm not understanding what issue you're trying to address.

Wishing you His best.

 

[Mitspa]

There is a grave error being made in the interpretation of the verse in the OP.

I observe that the 'theologian' quoted also missed this very simple point.

The word 'body', in the Greek soma, does mean the physical body mostly, but it also means 'servant' in several places.

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body <4983> of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Note the definite connection being made here between 'body (= servant') of sin and 'that henceforth we should not serve sin'.

The meaning of the word "soma" is clear! Its the physical body. Paul goes on in Roms 7, to discibe clearly the sinfulness that is in the "flesh". Now that which is born of the flesh "is flesh". And none of it can please God, no matter how one would twist words to mean what they dont mean.

God Bless you Chaplain! you keep posting truth and I am an old "prison preacher"
I am used to dealing with "jailhouse" prophets.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
When I was a young man of 24 years back in 1968; I began to think seriously about my future as regards heaven and hell. I reasoned that even if I were to manage to be a really good boy from then on until the day of my death, I seriously doubt I could keep it up for eternity. Sooner or later I would tire of so much self control and show my true colors; so I concluded that heaven was too far out of reach for someone like me. I thought to myself: If only I could please God just as naturally as I displease Him; that would be perfect.

I've always known that that this body of death is disposable and can be exchanged for a body of life. However; immortality would be quite useless for heavenly purposes unless the package included incorruption; in other words: unless along with the inability to die came also the inability to sin; and it does.

†. 1Cor 15:53-54 . . For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory.

That was pretty good news for a young guy who had given up on the possibility of heaven and resigned himself to spending eternity in hell.

Buen Camino
/

 

[netchaplain]

My big Brother Web, you got ten years on me and I too was 24 when I was preoccupied with Heaven and Hell, which is when I made the decision for Christ.

I like the way you included 1 Cor 15 because it leaves no wiggle room for gainsayers concerning eternity.

What I've learned recently and have been sharing is that God never intended man's fellowship with Him to be from any other source than His Son; which included from Adam's disobedience in his covenant with God (Gen 2:17), to Israel's disobedience in their Law covenant.

The covenants were to prove to man His holiness, which requires perfect obedience and scripture is not clear as to why He chose it this way, which is why the focus on Christ's righteousness is so paramount. It's not given as to why the carnality in man from creation, even before the fall (Gen 3:6), but 1 Cor 15:46 seems to ping the issue.

1 Cor 15:46