The False Security of Eternal Security

[Ernest T. Bass]

It does say:

'...no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.'

(John 6.65-69)

And actually, passages such as the end of Romans 8 are a glorious declaration of the believer's security in Christ.

BornAgain has already shown from Jn 6:45 how God gives, grants man the power to come to Christ. It is by God's word, when men are taught, hear and learn God's word then they have the power to come to Christ.

Rom 8 does not teach one can quit coming to Christ, quit hearing and following Christ and still maintain salvation.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

It can be helpful to see the context of the words 'by grace are ye saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast', by looking at its context within Ephesians 2. We see that the Ephesians believers are described as having been dead 'in trespasses and sins' but it is by grace that they were made alive, when they exercised faith in the Lord Jesus.

What if they quit having faith in the Lord, Rev 2:1-7. Could the church at Ephesus not overcome, not keep Christ's works and yet still be saved, Rev 2:7,26?

 

[Eventide]

Re: Saved ONCE...

Are you suggesting the sheep, the coin, and the son were always lost until they were found??? How can it be said the son was alive AGAIN if he were always lost?

Paul was telling the church at Corinth in 1 Cor 5:5 to practice church discipline against this sinner, to have no more fellowship with him that he MAY be saved. The purpose of discipline is for the hope the sinner will repent and return.


Seals can be broken. Some 25 or so years later the church at Ephesus that was said to be "sealed" had by Rev 2 left their first love, fallen away and threatened to repent or else have their candlestick (church) removed.

I was ALIVE once without the LAW...

Ring any bells.

Regardless, why do you ignore the simple truth of Heb 6 ?

 

[farouk]

What if they quit having faith in the Lord, Rev 2:1-7. Could the church at Ephesus not overcome, not keep Christ's works and yet still be saved, Rev 2:7,26?

One can lose one's effectiveness in testimony yet be saved. But strictly speaking, if we apply the parable of the sower, for example, those who never had good ground upon which the seed should germinate and grow, weren't true believers in the first place.

 

[Eventide]

Maybe it's because you're catholic and sacrifice the Lord over and over again??? Who knows, you won't tell us what this one true church is that you attend.

 

[BornAgain]

Maybe it's because you're catholic and sacrifice the Lord over and over again??? Who knows, you won't tell us what this one true church is that you attend.

What church do you attend?

 

[BornAgain]

Re: Saved ONCE...

I was ALIVE once without the LAW...

Ring any bells.

Regardless, why do you ignore the simple truth of Heb 6 ?

Please explain grace through faith? What is the simple truth of Heb? Which verse are you applying this to?

 

[Eventide]

Re: Saved ONCE...

Please explain grace through faith? What is the simple truth of Heb? Which verse are you applying this to?

Why don't you explain GRACE through faith... ? ?

What kind of a request is that ?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Re: Saved ONCE...

I was ALIVE once without the LAW...

Ring any bells.

Regardless, why do you ignore the simple truth of Heb 6 ?

Rom 7:8,9 "...For without the law sin [was] dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."


These verse show the man-made idea of orginal sin is false. Paul here is talking about what some call the "age of accountability.

Paul ends verse 8 by saying if there is no law then sin is dead. Paul then says he was once alive without the law. That means there was one time in Paul's life sin was dead to him and that would have been when he was an innocent infant, a innocent child and not accountable to God's law. Paul then matured from a child and learned right from wrong, Isa 7:15,16 and then sin sprang up in him.


I gave you an explanation of Heb 6 that you have yet to respond to. You have yet to also explain how the son could be alive AGAIN. Why would Peter command Simon to repent to be forgiven if that were impossible?

 

[BornAgain]

Maybe it's because you're catholic and sacrifice the Lord over and over again??? Who knows, you won't tell us what this one true church is that you attend.

Eventide, I belive that you know what the truth is...you tip toe around every post and ride the fence. If you are a true believer in Christ, take a stance! Say what you mean. I am tired of everybody riding the fence and not proclaiming what the real truth is! Say it, just say it...hear the gospel, believe it! Repent of your sins, confess you are a believer and be baptized!

 

[BornAgain]

Re: Saved ONCE...

Why don't you explain GRACE through faith... ? ?

What kind of a request is that ?

Again, you avoid a direct answer.

 

[BornAgain]

What church do you attend?

Answer this Eventide...you want everybody else to be accountable for their beliefs and scriptures...it is time you step up and tell us.

 

[Eventide]

Answer this Eventide...you want everybody else to be accountable for their beliefs and scriptures...it is time you step up and tell us.

Sorry bornagain, I'm not your question and answer service..

And I'm not the one who claims to attend the ONE TRUE CHURCH.. that would be E..

 

[Eventide]

Re: Saved ONCE...

Rom 7:8,9 "...For without the law sin [was] dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."


These verse show the man-made idea of orginal sin is false. Paul here is talking about what some call the "age of accountability.

Paul ends verse 8 by saying if there is no law then sin is dead. Paul then says he was once alive without the law. That means there was one time in Paul's life sin was dead to him and that would have been when he was an innocent infant, a innocent child and not accountable to God's law. Paul then matured from a child and learned right from wrong, Isa 7:15,16 and then sin sprang up in him.

I completely agree E.. and that's the point isn't it... we were once alive and then we were LOST... and then we were saved by the grace of God through faith... trusting in Him for the forgiveness of our sins.

I gave you an explanation of Heb 6 that you have yet to respond to. You have yet to also explain how the son could be alive AGAIN. Why would Peter command Simon to repent to be forgiven if that were impossible?

I'm sorry E, what post #

I'm a tad busy today...

 

[BornAgain]

Sorry bornagain, I'm not your question and answer service..

And I'm not the one who claims to attend the ONE TRUE CHURCH.. that would be E..

There is but one church...if you stick your neck out then you better be ready to answer. There is One Church...The Church of Christ.

16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.
Romans 16:16 (KJV)

 

[BornAgain]

Sorry bornagain, I'm not your question and answer service..

And I'm not the one who claims to attend the ONE TRUE CHURCH.. that would be E..

Do you want more scripture to prove there is One Church?

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

One can lose one's effectiveness in testimony yet be saved. But strictly speaking, if we apply the parable of the sower, for example, those who never had good ground upon which the seed should germinate and grow, weren't true believers in the first place.

First, I asked could the church at Ephesus not overcome, not keep Christ's works and yet still be saved, Rev 2:7,26?

I did not ask about their "effectiveness in testimony"

Secondly some do hear the word and do not believe it so they are never believers and they do not prove eternal security to be true. But there are those that "receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away."


So there are those that do believe but can fall away later.

If you argue they never really believed then you are arguing against Luke for he said they believed. If they did not really believe then how did they fall away? An unbeliever is already a fallen person.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Re: Saved ONCE...

I completely agree E.. and that's the point isn't it... we were once alive and then we were LOST... and then we were saved by the grace of God through faith... trusting in Him for the forgiveness of our sins.




I'm sorry E, what post #

I'm a tad busy today...

He was alive once, sin sprang up and he died, then could he be alive again after being alive once?





Reply #5.

 

[farouk]

First, I asked could the church at Ephesus not overcome, not keep Christ's works and yet still be saved, Rev 2:7,26?

I did not ask about their "effectiveness in testimony"

Secondly some do hear the word and do not believe it so they are never believers and they do not prove eternal security to be true. But there are those that "receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away."


So there are those that do believe but can fall away later.

If you argue they never really believed then you are arguing against Luke for he said they believed. If they did not really believe then how did they fall away? An unbeliever is already a fallen person.

The point is that it's not permanent, genuine faith that is in question there.

 

[farouk]

Do you want more scripture to prove there is One Church?

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

...and it's a spiritual entity, not an earthly organization. Acts 20 speaks of local elders in the congregation at Ephesus being raised directly by the Holy Ghost.