The False Security of Eternal Security

[smaller]

You can call it legalistic, you have to so as to make it fit your man made doctrine...

Call it what you want. As a practice of self justifications to ones self and condemnations required to other believers in faith, I reject.

Why? Because such practices FORCE condemnations of believers into the practitioners hearts.

Did they do themselves a favor in that external action? Uh, no. You yourself have been forced by your view to walk in condemnation.

The very opposite of the path of Life.

All the while thinking it life. Odd how that works, isn't it?

s

 

[rrowell]

Call it what you want. As a practice of self justifications to ones self and condemnations required to other believers in faith, I reject.

Why? Because such practices FORCE condemnations of believers into the practitioners hearts.

Did they do themselves a favor in that external action? Uh, no. You yourself have been forced by your view to walk in condemnation.

The very opposite of the path of Life.

All the while thinking it life. Odd how that works, isn't it?

s

What I find "odd" is people that follow the "commandments" of our Lord are called "legalistic" and you think its a bad thing. you can call me a legalistic and I will say your correct.

We are given the Law of Christ, the word Law by virtue implies wright and wrong, you can use the word "right" and "legal" or "wrong" and "illegal" interchangeably, does it matter?

I do my best to Obey the Law (am I or anyone else perfect? NO, Thank Jesus when I repent for his ever cleansing blood).

When I fall short, I repent and ask his forgiveness because I do not want to be a transgressor of that Law. (the law you think you need to comply with only part of).

1 John 3:4 (KJV)
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

[smaller]

What I find "odd" is people that follow the "commandments" of our Lord are called "legalistic" and you think its a bad thing. you can call me a legalistic and I will say your correct.

I find it even odder that those who promote other believers to be burned alive forever or eternally killed think they have perfect vision and perfect obedience, never once seeing their own shortcomings or imperfections. Not to mention the fact that exactly NO ONE put them on the 'eternal judgment of damnation throne.'

We are given the Law of Christ, the word Law by virtue implies wright and wrong, you can use the word "right" and "legal" or "wrong" and "illegal" interchangeably, does it matter?

Are you going to tell me that you are totally obedient to every Law and Command in the entire text? That should be fun.

I do my best to Obey the Law (am I or anyone else perfect? NO, Thank Jesus when I repent for his ever cleansing blood).

Oh, I think I see a glimmer of fact.

When I fall short, I repent and ask his forgiveness because I do not want to be a transgressor of that Law. (the law you think you need to comply with only part of).

Oh, I'm quite certain that in your own mind of exercises you have immediately available instant formulas ready to enact at a moments notice to re-save yourself, since you obviously believe you at least 'might not' be saved at any given moment of lapse, right?

s

 

[rrowell]

I find it even odder that those who promote other believers to be burned alive forever or eternally killed think they have perfect vision and perfect obedience, never once seeing their own shortcomings or imperfections. Not to mention the fact that exactly NO ONE put them on the 'eternal judgment of damnation throne.'

I or nobody else "promotes" believers to be burned alive forever, nor does the Bible...

But the Bible does the promoting of the burning alive forever of the non believer (the ones who don't believe they have to obey all His commandments)

God is a loving God, but he also will wrath:

Colossians 3:6 (KJV)
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

Are you going to tell me that you are totally obedient to every Law and Command in the entire text? That should be fun.

No, and you being you totally missed it when I said exactly, quoting myself here:

"I do my best to Obey the Law (am I or anyone else perfect? NO, Thank Jesus when I repent for his ever cleansing blood).

When I fall short, I repent and ask his forgiveness because I do not want to be a transgressor of that Law. (the law you think you need to comply with only part of)."

Now chop it up again like you did last time...

 

[smaller]

I or nobody else "promotes" believers to be burned alive forever, nor does the Bible...

Of course you do. You are here presenting that believers MAY not be or ARE NOT saved. Do the math.

But the Bible does the promoting of the burning alive forever of the non believer

That is not the topic of discussion.

(the ones who don't believe they have to obey all His commandments)

Oh, you mean 'every believer' who does not believe and do like 'imperfect' YOU is not a believer? Is this what you mean?

?

s

 

[rrowell]

Of course you do. You are here presenting that believers MAY not be or ARE NOT saved. Do the math.

I don't have a mathematical problem with equation, it is you my friend, lets look at it again:

Acts 15:11 (KJV)
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Mark 16:16 (KJV)
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The first verse says if we "believe" we shall be saved, the second verse say's if we "believe and are baptized" we shall be saved.

Therefore you can conclude from this equation that you have a misunderstanding of what it is to be a believer...

A believer does all that he commands... do the math:

John 14:15 (KJV)
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Evil just happens to be way down on the scale of things created by God.

You create a contradiction in the nature of God by saying this, a contradiction you have not yet resolved.

 

[smaller]

I don't have a mathematical problem with equation, it is you my friend, lets look at it again:

Acts 15:11 (KJV)
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Mark 16:16 (KJV)
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The first verse says if we "believe" we shall be saved, the second verse say's if we "believe and are baptized" we shall be saved.

And of course you reject this fact as well:

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body

You seem to understand that the 'full water immersions' are quite meaningless without The Spirit. Yet you will diminish Spirit baptism in favor of water, knowing that the water means nothing without the other.

I fail to see the point in trying to diminish the 'fact' of Spirit Baptism by use of the external action.

If you say The Spirit did not act, move or place in and by Spirit or is removed by not dipping in water I would only say that you have no basis as YOU are not the Spirit.

Therefore you can conclude from this equation that you have a misunderstanding of what it is to be a believer...

Obviously taking a dunk in water does not constitute belief via faith.

A believer does all that he commands... do the math:

John 14:15 (KJV)
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Oh, you mean like admittedly 'imperfect you?'

I'm really not interested in riding on your merry go round, fall off the horse and be damned, and jump back on type of salvation quite frankly. It is obviously only needed to be exercised by your admitted and continual imperfections, which were not the basis of your salvation to begin with.

s

 

[smaller]

You create a contradiction in the nature of God by saying this, a contradiction you have not yet resolved.

EB, we've already done this and you don't seem to be able to 'get the picture.'

God can create any 'thing' and NOT be that 'thing' created.

Is this a difficult concept to you? You think if God creates a big round ball called the earth that God is then the earth?

Uh, no. That is obviously not the case. God is not 'the same as' any 'thing' or 'power' that He creates and uses.

If you believe God is the same as multiple various things in creation, that is aka PANTHEISM. That is in fact the view you are espousing, being that if God 'creates' somethings, anythings, that means God IS those things.

PANTHEISM.

If you present that things and powers 'create' themselves that is POLYTHEISM. Multiple self creators.

It would appear that many freewillers suffer under both of these conflicts.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

God can create any 'thing' and NOT be that 'thing' created.

Prove it.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally Posted By Ernest T. Bass,

Originally Posted by smaller,
God can create any 'thing' and NOT be that 'thing' created.

Prove it.

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light and CREATE DARKNESS,
I make peace and CREATE EVIL;
I, the Lord, do ALL these things."


Proverbs 16:4 "The Lord has made ALL for Himself,
Yes, EVEN THE WICKED for the day of evil."

 

[rrowell]

And of course you reject this fact as well:

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body

You seem to understand that the 'full water immersions' are quite meaningless without The Spirit. Yet you will diminish Spirit baptism in favor of water, knowing that the water means nothing without the other.

I have asked you and anyone else on this forum to show me one example of anyone being baptized "with" the Holy Spirit other than an Apostle or the house of Cornelius... you cannot do it...

There is a difference in being baptized "with" the Holy Spirit Acts 10:44-45 (of which you some how claim to have been, but cannot provide biblical proof of), and being baptized "by" the Holy Spirit such as Acts 2:38

I fail to see the point in trying to diminish the 'fact' of Spirit Baptism by use of the external action.

Only Jesus can baptize with the Holy Spirit.
You fail to show it ever documented in the Holy Writ other than an Apostle or the house of Cornelius.

If you say The Spirit did not act, move or place in and by Spirit or is removed by not dipping in water I would only say that you have no basis as YOU are not the Spirit.

The Spirit did for me the same he does for every non believer, its called guidance. then when I obeyed (became a believer, the part you don't quite understand yet) I recieved a larger portion called "indwelling" (note the word "received") Acts 2:38

He never gave me (or you) any miraculous gifts, those died with the Apostles.

Obviously taking a dunk in water does not constitute belief via faith.

Taking a dunk in the water will just get you wet, this is where you fall short in your understanding of what it is meant to be a believer, water baptism is just one of the commandments that lead to salvation.

Hearing wont do it alone (its a command)
Believing what you heard won't do it alone (its a command)
Repenting from your evil ways won't do it alone (its a command)
Confessing Christ is the son of God wont do it alone (its a command)
Being baptized wont do it alone (its a command)
Trying to live faithful the rest of your life wont do it alone (its a command)

But if you do all the above, you are in fact a biblical believer... (the part you cannot grasp)

1 John 2:4 (KJV)
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Oh, you mean like admittedly 'imperfect you?'

I'm really not interested in riding on your merry go round, fall off the horse and be damned, and jump back on type of salvation quite frankly. It is obviously only needed to be exercised by your admitted and continual imperfections, which were not the basis of your salvation to begin with.

s

You can stay off the merry go round, but I will try to stay on, because I know I will fall short, and as long as I keep repenting, he will keep forgiving and keep me washed with his ever cleansing blood...

If you think because you believe you remain in a saved condition (you have as this thread is called), "the false security of eternal security".

1 John 1:8 (KJV)
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

[rrowell]

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light and CREATE DARKNESS,
I make peace and CREATE EVIL;
I, the Lord, do ALL these things."


Proverbs 16:4 "The Lord has made ALL for Himself,
Yes, EVEN THE WICKED for the day of evil."

This is not worth responding to so Ill let Adam Clark do it:

The Lord hath made all things for himself—He has so framed and executed every part of his creation, that it manifests his wisdom, power, goodness, and truth.
Even the wicked for the day of evil—‏וגם רשע ליום רעה‎ vegam rasha leyom raah. The whole verse is translated by the Chaldee thus: "All the works of the LORD are for those who obey him; and the wicked is reserved for the evil day." As ‏רעה‎ raah literally signifies to feed, it has been conjectured that the clause might be read, yea, even the wicked he feeds by the day, or daily.
If we take the words as they stand in our present version, they mean no more than what is expressed by the Chaldee and Spriac: and as far as we can learn from their present confused state, by the Septuagint and Arabic, that "the wicked are reserved for the day of punishment." Coverdale has given, as he generally does, a good sense: "The Lorde dotll all thinges for his owne sake; yea, and when he kepeth the ungodly for the daye of wrath." He does not make the wicked or ungodly man; but when man has made himself such, even then God bears with him. But if he repent not, when the measure of his iniquity is filled up, he shall fall under the wrath of God his Maker.
A Commentary and Critical Notes.

 

[smaller]

I have asked you and anyone else on this forum to show me one example of anyone being baptized "with" the Holy Spirit other than an Apostle or the house of Cornelius... you cannot do it...

It's not a matter of that not being done repeatedly. It's a matter of the fact being set before people's eyes and they still can't see it:

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body

The auto response syndrome that many take as soon as they hear baptized by Spirit is "I must speak mumbo jumbo"

There is a difference in being baptized "with" the Holy Spirit Acts 10:44-45 (of which you some how claim to have been, but cannot provide biblical proof of), and being baptized "by" the Holy Spirit such as Acts 2:38

Only Jesus can baptize with the Holy Spirit.

Never said otherwise. Obviously spiritual matters are not matters we see tangibly.

You fail to show it ever documented in the Holy Writ other than an Apostle or the house of Cornelius.

There is no amount of ink on paper that are able to formulate matters of Spirit.

2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

He never gave me (or you) any miraculous gifts, those died with the Apostles.

Luke 15:10
Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

s

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by rrowell,

Originally Posted by Osgiliath,

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light and CREATE DARKNESS,
I make peace and CREATE EVIL;
I, the Lord, do ALL these things."


Proverbs 16:4 "The Lord has made ALL for Himself,
Yes, EVEN THE WICKED for the day of evil."

This is not worth responding to so Ill let Adam Clark do it:

The Lord hath made all things for himself—He has so framed and executed every part of his creation, that it manifests his wisdom, power, goodness, and truth.

Even the wicked for the day of evil—‏וגם רשע ליום רעה‎ vegam rasha leyom raah. The whole verse is translated by the Chaldee thus: "All the works of the LORD are for those who obey him; and the wicked is reserved for the evil day." As ‏רעה‎ raah literally signifies to feed, it has been conjectured that the clause might be read, yea, even the wicked he feeds by the day, or daily.
If we take the words as they stand in our present version, they mean no more than what is expressed by the Chaldee and Spriac: and as far as we can learn from their present confused state, by the Septuagint and Arabic, that "the wicked are reserved for the day of punishment." Coverdale has given, as he generally does, a good sense: "The Lorde dotll all thinges for his owne sake; yea, and when he kepeth the ungodly for the daye of wrath." He does not make the wicked or ungodly man; but when man has made himself such, even then God bears with him. But if he repent not, when the measure of his iniquity is filled up, he shall fall under the wrath of God his Maker.
A Commentary and Critical Notes.

That is an indefensible exegesis of the Hebrew word ‏רעה‎ raah. Unbelievable.


Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (‏רעה‎ raah): I the Lord do ALL these things."


It is clear that in the Bible this word does mean evil. Am I going to listen to a man trying to promote a false doctrine, or am I going to "test the spirits to see if they are of God" and observe how this word (‏רעה‎ raah) is used in the Scriptures themselves?


In Genesis 2:17, God instructs Adam and Eve not to eat from "the tree of the knowledge of good and EVIL" ‏רעה‎ raah.
The tree of the knowledge of good and disaster?
The tree of the knowledge of good and calamity?
The tree of the knowledge of good and "to feed." (as Adam Clark says it should be?)

(Good Lord :help - anything to promote their heinous doctrines)

Clearly not: it is the tree of the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL.


In Genesis 6:5, God resolves to destroy humankind in the great flood because "the wickedness (‏רעה‎ raah) of man was great in the earth".

In Genesis 13:13, the men of Sodom were "wicked (‏רעה‎ raah), and sinners before the Lord exceedingly".

In Deuteronomy 1:35, God threatens the Israelites, "Surely there shall not one of these men of this evil (‏רעה‎ raah) generation see that good land, which I sware to give unto your fathers."

In Judges 2:11, "the children of Israel did evil (‏רעה‎ raah) in the sight of the Lord, and served Baalim".

In 1 Kings 16:30, the wicked king Ahab (husband of the infamous Jezebel) "did evil (‏רעה‎ raah) in the sight of the Lord above all that were before him".

These and many other references make it clear that the primary meaning of ‏רעה‎ raah is indeed evil in the sense of wickedness or sin. In the context of what is being said in Isaiah 45:7, there is no choice but to admit that God created evil. And of course this is how it MUST be. If an all-powerful, all-knowing God created everything, what other explanation for evil could there be, other than it was from God?

And there are many Scriptures that confirm this fact; such as:

Proverbs 16:4 "The Lord has made ALL for Himself,
Yes, EVEN THE WICKED for the day of evil."

Also, as the Scripture declares, "light and darkness" are God's creations, and from His perspective, which is an overall perspective, they are both the same, and He tells us this is so.

Psalms 139:12 "Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee."

 

[rrowell]

It's not a matter of that not being done repeatedly. It's a matter of the fact being set before people's eyes and they still can't see it:

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body

The auto response syndrome that many take as soon as they hear baptized by Spirit is "I must speak mumbo jumbo"

We are all baptized by one baptism by "one Spirit", the same baptism of Acts 2:38, receiving the same "gift of the Holy Ghost" as in Acts 2:38 and the same Spirit as the saints in the Roman Church Romans 8:11, the same Spirit that Stephen had as saint in Acts 6:5 before he received the power from the Apostles when they laid hands on him in the next verse Acts 6:6.

All Baptized into the "one body" the one Church in Acts 2:47

2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

This is the promise of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the Gift of Him after baptism Acts 2:38, the same sealed promise Paul told the Ephesians they had when he addressed the saints in Ephesus Ephesians 1:13.

This is no spiritual miraculous power, but the promise given to all who obey the Gospel and are baptized "into Christ".

 

[smaller]

This is no spiritual miraculous power,.

Apparently not in your world. It is mental ascent to an external exercise.

About as connected to faith as reading a stop sign compared to loving our fellow believers.

s

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by rrowell,

This is the promise of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the Gift of Him after baptism Acts 2:38, the same sealed promise Paul told the Ephesians they had when he addressed the saints in Ephesus Ephesians 1:13.

Don't evade the question, its strait forward:


Acts 15:11 (KJV)
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Mark 16:16 (KJV)
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Evading the question? The question is: "Is the outward, carnal religious ritual of 'water baptism' necessary for Salvation?"

The short answer is, merely considering the predicament of the thief on the cross, NO (Luke 23:43).

Just as "physical" Circumcision was a "shadow" of true Circumcision - which is "of the heart" (Romans 2:28-29) - Baptism with water was a "shadow" of true baptism, which is baptism with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Matthew 3:11 "I [John the water baptizer] indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire."


Is baptism necessary. YES - but it is NOT the physical ritual of baptism with water that is necessary!


Do the experiences of the twelve apostles teach us anything concerning HOW WE FIRST SEE CHRIST? Do we not first know Christ only "after the flesh?" (2 Corinthians 5:16) ...though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet NOW HENCEFORTH know we Him no more."


The apostles had been baptized and were baptizing others. They had been called and commissioned by Christ Himself to go preach... heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils... (Matthew 10:7 and 8), and as yet, their calling and gifts not withstanding, they were not even converted (Luke 22:32)!! Baptized, but NOT converted!


Water baptism is the shadow of the Good thing to come spoken of in Hebrews 10:1. Ephesians 5:26-27 shows the "washing of water" that really is essential for salvation is "by the word," not physical water:

Ephesians 5:26 "That he might sanctify and cleanse it [the church] with the washing of water by the word"

1 Corinthians 1:17 "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel"

Hebrews 9:21-23 - "Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry [both types of the Christian]. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood: and without shedding of blood is no remission. It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these (water baptism-the passover experience); but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these (the baptism of the Holy Spirit).


This is what "sanctifies and cleanses." This agrees with our Lord's words of John 6:63 - It is the Spirit that gives life. The words that I speak unto you THEY ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE."



Having said that, what is the apostle's attitude toward those who still feel that they personally must adhere to the scriptures which do clearly teach outward circumcision and baptism?


Notice: "Let no man judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon or of the sabbath days: WHICH ARE A SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME, but the body (which casts those shadows) is of Christ (Colossians 2:16-17)."

So anyone who does happen to enjoy the "good things to come" (Hebrews 10:1), who realizes that true baptism is the baptism Christ was baptized with (Matthew 20:23), realizes he is "baptized into his (Christ's) death" (Romans 6:3), is up on the cross with Christ and doesn't need the outward sign of water baptism, but neither does he condemn those who still feel they need it.

 

[rrowell]

Evading the question? The question is: "Is the outward, carnal religious ritual of 'water baptism' necessary for Salvation?"

The short answer is, merely considering the predicament of the thief on the cross, NO (Luke 23:43).

Your short answer is not valid, the thief died under the old law, Jesus could save someone by his word, after the death and enactment of the Law of Christ, water baptism became a requirement. your time and space is off...

Just as "physical" Circumcision was a "shadow" of true Circumcision - which is "of the heart" (Romans 2:28-29) - Baptism with water was a "shadow" of true baptism, which is baptism with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Matthew 3:11 "I [John the water baptizer] indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire."

Yes, you need to go back and catch up, we covered this already, ONLY JESUS can baptize with the Holy Ghost (once with the Apostles, once with the house of Cornelius), now show me one other example of anyone getting baptized with the Holy Ghost aside from an Apostle or the house of Cornelius, nobody else has...

Is baptism necessary. YES - but it is NOT the physical ritual of baptism with water that is necessary!

Again, prove it, show me one person in the Bible PERIOD that has been SAVED by baptism of the Holy Spirit, just show me one...

Do the experiences of the twelve apostles teach us anything concerning HOW WE FIRST SEE CHRIST? Do we not first know Christ only "after the flesh?" (2 Corinthians 5:16) ...though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet NOW HENCEFORTH know we Him no more."

I have no clue of the point your trying to make here.

The apostles had been baptized and were baptizing others. They had been called and commissioned by Christ Himself to go preach... heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils... (Matthew 10:7 and 8), and as yet, their calling and gifts not withstanding, they were not even converted (Luke 22:32)!! Baptized, but NOT converted!

I said all along, the Apostles were baptized "with" the Holy Spirit, this is why they could do miracles.... but at the time of Luke 22:32 how could they be converted to the Law of Christ when there was not yet a "Law of Christ" (A testament to be in effect requires the death of the testator):

Hebrews 9:16-17 (KJV)
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Water baptism is the shadow of the Good thing to come spoken of in Hebrews 10:1. Ephesians 5:26-27 shows the "washing of water" that really is essential for salvation is "by the word," not physical water:

the "shadow" was the old law (Mosaic Law), Acts 2:38 was under the new law... and Peter begs to differ:

1 Peter 3:20-21 (KJV)
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 5:26 "That he might sanctify and cleanse it [the church] with the washing of water by the word"

I am surprised you would even use this scripture, it is the Word of God that brings forth regeneration, and what does it teach? water baptism...

1 Corinthians 1:17 "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel"

This is one of the most obvious attempts to take scripture out of context to make a point, Paul here is scolding the Corinthians for boasting of who baptized them, they felt one baptism by (to make an example) Peter, was better than to be baptized by John, Paul scolded them saying I am glad I baptized none of you... but look too at verse 16, Paul DID baptize.

Next time look at the rest of the scripture:

1 Corinthians 1:11-16 (KJV)
11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; 15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. 16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

It is sad when one has to go to this length of twisting and taking scripture out of context to support their man made doctrine.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by rowell,

It is sad when one has to go to this length of twisting and taking scripture out of context to support their man made doctrine.

What man made doctrine is that? That TRUE BAPTISM is to be baptized with THE HOLY SPIRIT?




Jesus never commanded us to be water baptized. He commanded us to baptize people in his name.

Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the NAME of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."



The name of Jesus is the ONLY NAME by which we must be saved.

Acts 4:12 "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other NAME under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."



The name of Jesus is the Word of God

Revelation 19:13 "He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His NAME is called The Word of God."



Therefore, to baptize people in his name is to immerse them in the Word of God.

Ephesians 5:26 "That He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word"



Circumcision and Baptism are both carnal, outward forms of the same spiritual reality.

Acts 1:5 "For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence."




I realize this scriptural truth will not please any person who has attached himself, his pride and his flesh to some divisive partisan doctrine of men.