The Gates of hell shall not prevail...

[bartdanr]

I would like to get everyone's thoughts on this passage in Scripture, found in Matthew 16:18:

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:18, KJV)

I'd like to focus specifically on what Jesus meant when he said "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (There's already plenty of discussion about Peter/the rock). Specifically, do you believe that this means that there would be a visible body identified as the Church that will survive and never die out? Or do you think it means something else?

Often, I hear the RCC and OC quote this as evidence that their Church is the True Church that did not die out. I have a different understanding on the text, but I'd like to hear others.

God bless!

 

[stranger]

I would like to get everyone's thoughts on this passage in Scripture, found in Matthew 16:18:

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matthew 16:18, KJV)

I'd like to focus specifically on what Jesus meant when he said "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (There's already plenty of discussion about Peter/the rock). Specifically, do you believe that this means that there would be a visible body identified as the Church that will survive and never die out? Or do you think it means something else?

Often, I hear the RCC and OC quote this as evidence that their Church is the True Church that did not die out. I have a different understanding on the text, but I'd like to hear others.

God bless!

Hi bartdanr,

Matt 16:18 is certainly interesting. On another tread I have been developing an argument based on this text. What I find interesting is that eg the seven letters to the churches in the book of Revelation. Another text that is of interest is: a house divided against itself cannot stand. So these sources taken together would appear to suggest that the gates of hell can prevail against a church that is not a true church or a true church that has had its candlestick removed.

I will be interested to see what folks come up with.

 

[bartdanr]

Hi bartdanr,

Matt 16:18 is certainly interesting. On another tread I have been developing an argument based on this text. What I find interesting is that eg the seven letters to the churches in the book of Revelation. Another text that is of interest is: a house divided against itself cannot stand. So these sources taken together would appear to suggest that the gates of hell can prevail against a church that is not a true church or a true church that has had its candlestick removed.

I will be interested to see what folks come up with.

Hi stranger,

Thanks for your reply. I like bringing up the seven letters to the Churches in Revelation! I hadn't thought of that connection before.

I agree that the gates of hell can prevail against a false Church...but the real question in my mind is what does it mean for them not to prevail against the true Church?

I can think of two ways:
(1) As long as the Church is true (in word and deed) to Peter's good confession (in Matt 16:16), it shall never cease to be on this earth.
(2) The gates of hell (really, hades) cannot prevail against the Church with the resurrection power. See John 11:25-26; even if throughout all the earth every single true believer were to die, the gates of hell will have not prevailed against the Church. Our God can bring life back from the dead.

It is the second aspect that I think is often ignored--or just plain disagreed with. Some believe that if every single believer were to die and there was not a person of faith found alive in the world, it would invalidate Jesus' statement.

God bless!

 

[unred typo]

Excellent! Thanks for the eureka moment! I had not really thought about your question before but when I read your post I was puzzled as to what the real meaning was and read some scriptures about gates and what that might mean to prevail against the gate of a place like hell. :smt027
Duh. The answer was so obvious, like we were standing on it…literally,… in a figurative sense. :-D We stand on the promise of eternal life! Hell and death cannot prevail against that promise. Whether we believe that we go directly from this body to our heavenly home or if we believe we will be resurrected to it, death will have no victory and it’s sting will have no effect on the true church, the true believers in Christ.
More than eureka, it’s a hallelujah moment! :smt041

 

[Robert Cragg]

What Jesus is refering to is the statment Peter made back in verse 16 when Jesus said to him back in 15 He said to them, " but who do you say I am?'
Peter answered in verse 16" You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God." This is the statement
Jesus built the statment on, meaning the fact That He Jesus is the Son of God.
To understand fully You need to read from Verse 13-18. Also Peter's name really means pebble.
Why the Catholics say the rock is Peter I don't know and to be honest I don't care.

 

[nadab]

The King James Bible renders Matthew 16:18 as Jesus saying: "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell (Greek hai´des) shall not prevail against it." A modern English translation reads: "Also, I say to you, You are Peter, and on this rock-mass I will build my congregation, and the gates of Ha´des (the common grave of mankind) will not overpower it."(New World Translation)

Jesus did not tell Peter that the "congregation"(Greek ek·kle·si´a) would be built upon him, but that it would have as it's foundation himself as the Christ.(Greek Khri·stos´ ) The apostle Peter, some thirty years later, wrote: "Coming to him as to a living stone (Ps 118:22), rejected, it is true, by men, but chosen, precious, with God, you yourselves also as living stones are being built up a spiritual house for the purpose of a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." He then quotes from Isaiah 28:16: " For it is contained in Scripture: “Look! I am laying in Zion a stone, chosen, a foundation cornerstone, precious; and no one exercising faith in it will by any means come to disappointment.â€Â(1 Pet 2:4-6)

The apostle Paul wrote, in speaking to the Ephesians, said that “you have been built up upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, while Christ Jesus himself is the foundation cornerstone.â€Â(Eph 2:20) Thus, Jesus is the "rock-mass" upon which he built his "congregation".

The apostle Peter’s name means “piece of rockâ€Â(Greek pe´tros) whereas “rock-mass†is from the Greek word pe´tra. That the apostles did not understand Jesus’ statement to signify that Peter was the rock-mass is evident from the fact that they later disputed about who seemed to be the greatest among them. (Mr 9:33-35; Lu 22:24-26) There would have been no basis for such disputing had Peter been given the primacy as the rock-mass on which the congregation was to be built. The Scriptures clearly show that as foundation stones, all the apostles are equal. All of them, including Peter, rest upon Christ Jesus as the foundation cornerstone. (Eph 2:19-22; Re 21:2, 9-14)

The “congregation†that Jesus was speaking of is not the “church†as many consider it, with all it's various sects. Rather, Jesus was focused on those who would make up the “kingdom of Godâ€Â, for this was the “congregationâ€Â. The apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians: “to the congregation of God that is in Corinth, to you who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones.â€Â(1 Cor 1:2) Paul also wrote to the Corinthians: “For I am the least of the apostles, and I am not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the congregation of God.â€Â(1 Cor 15:9) He further wrote to the Hebrews that “you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of [the] living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels, in general assembly, and the congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens.â€Â(Heb 12:22,23)

This "congregation of the firstborn" is made up of only a small number of individuals chosen by God, for Jesus said: "Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom."(Luke 12:32) These are the ones spoken of at Daniel 7:21,22, in which Daniel saw in vision this: "I kept on beholding when that very horn made war upon the holy ones, and it was prevailing against them, until the Ancient of Days came and judgment itself was given in favor of the holy ones of the Supreme One, and the definite time arrived that the holy ones took possession of the kingdom itself."

This "congregation" forms the "kingdom" that Jesus taught all to pray for in the "Lord's Prayer" at Matthew 6:9,10. Jesus, on the night before his death, told his eleven faithful apostles: "I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom."(Luke 22:29) This "kingdom" was created by God to restore what Adam lost in the Garden of Eden, life on a Paradise earth in perfect health among those who have genuine love for God and neighbor (Matt 22:37-39) and are called "meek ones".(Ps 37:11,29; Matt 5:5) It is a heavenly government made up of individuals "bought (with Jesusshed blood)...for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.â€Â(Rev 5:9,10)