The image and likeness of God, physical, spiritual or both?

[stranger]

Hello Fembot,

You suggested another tread be started on the image and likeness of God. The OP would be something like this: Can the image and likeness of God in man be considered to be physical, spiritual or both?

At the creation of man we have at once a being with both physical and spiritual attributes. Yet God is Spirit without physical parts and for this reason some believe the image and likeness of God refers ONLY to the spiritual attributes. There is a certain logic to this - if God is Spirit then the image and likeness of God in man must also be spirit(ual).

In saying that the image and likeness of God ALSO has a physical dimension does not negate the spiritual aspect. The scriptural grounds for this assertion is based on the incarnation. Since the first Adam is covered by the text Gen1:26 an equivalent expression is sought for the second Adam:

Col 1: 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.

The difference between the two Adams is this - the first Adam was created in the image and likeness of God, the second Adam was born of a woman and WAS the image of the invisible God. This is the reason why I believe the image and likeness of God is BOTH physical and spiritual and not ONLY spiritual.

Is this what you had in mind?

blessings

 

[Benoni]

Both Adam's were God’s sons; one born innocent and ordain to fall, the other was God manifested in the flesh; his purpose was to reverse the curse. Adam (first Adam) was made in God’s image on the sixth day, God is a spirit, on the seventh day (totally new day), God lowered/formed man into the dust of the earth and made him a living soul. God set up Adam to fall; God does not want a robot, He desires fully manture manifested sons.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

My point being that which is spiritual is far more real then that which is flesh. We speak of a physical body; God forbid I live in this lump of clay more then my time on this earth. The body God has prepared for us is not a physical body, but a glorious body which I am sure is far more real then this dust body I live in now.

It was God who caused the fall Adam had no choice.

 

[follower of Christ]

We cant possibly have been created in Gods PHYSICAL image as God is spirit.

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
(John 4:24 KJV)

Jesus was not yet born into His PHYSICAL form when Adam was created. It is frankly not even reasonable to claim that Adam was created in Gods PHYSICAL image when God did not have kidneys, or a liver, or a prostrate when Adam was created.

 

[Benoni]

We cant possibly have been created in Gods PHYSICAL image as God is spirit.

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
(John 4:24 KJV)

Jesus was not yet born into His PHYSICAL form when Adam was created. It is frankly not even reasonable to claim that Adam was created in Gods PHYSICAL image when God did not have kidneys, or a liver, or a prostrate when Adam was created.

Amen.

The problem is we cannot really know what spirit means. Or concept of spirit is a ghost. Seeing God is som much more then we are; I am sure the problem is with our understanding.

 

[handy]

We cant possibly have been created in Gods PHYSICAL image as God is spirit.

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
(John 4:24 KJV)

Jesus was not yet born into His PHYSICAL form when Adam was created. It is frankly not even reasonable to claim that Adam was created in Gods PHYSICAL image when God did not have kidneys, or a liver, or a prostrate when Adam was created.

Amen.

The problem is we cannot really know what spirit means. Or concept of spirit is a ghost. Seeing God is so much more then we are; I am sure the problem is with our understanding.

I agree, Benoni. I think we have a very limited understanding of what is meant by the statement God is Spirit. Some have taken this to mean that God cannot possibly have any physical attributes. And yet, descriptions of God having physical attributes are all over the Scriptures. The bible talks of God's face, His hands, His eyes, and so on.

Yes, the Scriptures tells us that God is Spirit. The Scriptures also tell us that God is love and yet we know that God being love doesn't mean that does not also God hate. God's capacity for hatred must cause us to re-examine what is meant by love. And I believe that the many description of God's physical attributes must cause us to re-examine what is meant by spirit.

Frankly, I've never been sure as to why "physical" and "spiritual" were set up to be defined as opposites, unable to occupy the same place and time.

 

[Benoni]

I think the spiritual and the phyical are total opposites; the spiritual plane far exceeds the natural realm to a point where the natural realm cannot even comphend its spendor.

Adam and Eve walked in the garden and found them selves naked.

Adam and Eve were both…NAKED! Among all the creatures which God made, man stands out unique…stark naked…which means devoid of true wisdom and knowledge, with his inner nature revealed, opened up, exhibited, and made bare. Oh, that God may give us understanding to see that to be naked means to have THE FLESH UNCOVERED AND EXPOSED! In the typology of scripture "the flesh" is the name by which the Holy Spirit designates our outer life of soul and body, our earthly and carnal human nature, literally speaking of that nature which is earthly minded, with its lusts and self-centeredness, its ego and I-will which are in rebellion to the spirit. Thus, the flesh is not the outward, visible man of meat, muscle, and bones, but the nature of the soulical and bodily man. This nature was in man from the beginning, else Eve (who was of the man) could not have been tempted, nor could they have sinned! This nature could be seen to be in them from the time God lowered them out of their pure spirit existence, in the image and likeness of God, investing them with a body of earth so that man became a living soul. But as long as man was caught up in God he was not aware of it  for he was naked and was not ashamed (Gen. 2:25). Have we not all experienced the same thing?

JEby

 

[Fembot]

Hello Fembot,

You suggested another tread be started on the image and likeness of God. The OP would be something like this: Can the image and likeness of God in man be considered to be physical, spiritual or both?

At the creation of man we have at once a being with both physical and spiritual attributes. Yet God is Spirit without physical parts and for this reason some believe the image and likeness of God refers ONLY to the spiritual attributes. There is a certain logic to this - if God is Spirit then the image and likeness of God in man must also be spirit(ual).

In saying that the image and likeness of God ALSO has a physical dimension does not negate the spiritual aspect. The scriptural grounds for this assertion is based on the incarnation. Since the first Adam is covered by the text Gen1:26 an equivalent expression is sought for the second Adam:

Col 1: 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.

The difference between the two Adams is this - the first Adam was created in the image and likeness of God, the second Adam was born of a woman and WAS the image of the invisible God. This is the reason why I believe the image and likeness of God is BOTH physical and spiritual and not ONLY spiritual.

Is this what you had in mind?

blessings

Stranger,

I said I'd be gain for this discussion which was actually requested by Vic C in How Does Pork Kill You?

Stranger, you will have to prove of course, that admixture is transferred to the reproductive genes. Until someone can prove without shadow of a doubt this is cause for concern and somehow can lead to human mutations, I stand on what I believe and posted. Separating the physical from the spiritual, nothing can affect the spiritual likeness between man and God. That is the essence of Gen 1:26.

I believe that the spiritual aspect of our being is what parallels God's image. If we become unholy spiritually then we can not make it to heaven. That we all agree on. However, the Bible says we were made in HIS IMAGE. Doesn't mention kidneys or organs. Just that we are His image. This is why I would disagree with the practice of admixture. When this becomes a widespread practice, genetically modified humans will be the result. This is not God's plan. These surgeries use animal parts to replace those of a human (pig's heart valves). The image Gd created is being changed, willfully:

Genetically Modified Humans

 

[Benoni]

If God did not want something to happen it would not happen. Nothing happens outside of God's will.

Hello Fembot,

You suggested another tread be started on the image and likeness of God. The OP would be something like this: Can the image and likeness of God in man be considered to be physical, spiritual or both?

At the creation of man we have at once a being with both physical and spiritual attributes. Yet God is Spirit without physical parts and for this reason some believe the image and likeness of God refers ONLY to the spiritual attributes. There is a certain logic to this - if God is Spirit then the image and likeness of God in man must also be spirit(ual).

In saying that the image and likeness of God ALSO has a physical dimension does not negate the spiritual aspect. The scriptural grounds for this assertion is based on the incarnation. Since the first Adam is covered by the text Gen1:26 an equivalent expression is sought for the second Adam:

Col 1: 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.

The difference between the two Adams is this - the first Adam was created in the image and likeness of God, the second Adam was born of a woman and WAS the image of the invisible God. This is the reason why I believe the image and likeness of God is BOTH physical and spiritual and not ONLY spiritual.

Is this what you had in mind?

blessings

Stranger,

I said I'd be gain for this discussion which was actually requested by Vic C in How Does Pork Kill You?

Stranger, you will have to prove of course, that admixture is transferred to the reproductive genes. Until someone can prove without shadow of a doubt this is cause for concern and somehow can lead to human mutations, I stand on what I believe and posted. Separating the physical from the spiritual, nothing can affect the spiritual likeness between man and God. That is the essence of Gen 1:26.

I believe that the spiritual aspect of our being is what parallels God's image. If we become unholy spiritually then we can not make it to heaven. That we all agree on. However, the Bible says we were made in HIS IMAGE. Doesn't mention kidneys or organs. Just that we are His image. This is why I would disagree with the practice of admixture. When this becomes a widespread practice, genetically modified humans will be the result. This is not God's plan. These surgeries use animal parts to replace those of a human (pig's heart valves). The image Gd created is being changed, willfully:

Genetically Modified Humans

 

[Relic]

.

...But as long as man was caught up in God he was not aware of it  for he was naked and was not ashamed (Gen. 2:25). Have we not all experienced the same thing?

Well, having given birth to two children and having remembrance of my own innocence when I was a child up to about 7 years old when it came about that I didn't want anyone to see me naked and at that age nor did I want anyone telling me I was being bad .... I would say, yes we all have experienced being completely caught up in God.

Matthew 18:3
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Praise God our fleshly being is not without the indwelling HOLY SPIRIT OF CHRIST JESUS.


2 Corinthians 5: 14-17
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


And of course, in marriage, IF each are completely open with each other and not inhibited, they will be not ashamed of any nakedness, be it physical or emotional... With the grace of the Lord IF they obey and abide, they will be saved FROM the sins of the world. Jesus didn't die on the cross, rise from the dead and ascend into heaven for us to be of no avail.

Praise God we are redeemed. We need not dwell on the sins and ineficiencies of the past so as to stifle us from our forward walk. Yes, it is a sad thing from which we came out of... the carnality, and yet still the pull towards temptations. No all is not lost! We need not think we are without a means to an end. Jesus our example, our covering... We are not to walk as being naked nor be ashamed any longer, even if people try to inflict that upon you. Jesus didn’t die for us to walk in nakedness or shame. We have the full armour of God to wear daily.


Ephesians 6:10-20
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

Revelation 22:13-14
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


.

 

[Benoni]

Being clothed with God's righteousness instead of our own righteousness is where we need to be.

What was the first religious act in the Bible?
My answer would be the fig leaf. You see that was man's attempt to cover his nakedness with something other than the glory of the Lord.

Joseph coat of many color's but if you look at the Hebrew the word pieces is also used. In other words His garment is made up of many pieces. Line upon line, precept upon precept here a little there a little

In the OT the priest could wool… Wool is symbolic of man’s works (sweat)

.

...But as long as man was caught up in God he was not aware of it  for he was naked and was not ashamed (Gen. 2:25). Have we not all experienced the same thing?

Well, having given birth to two children and having remembrance of my own innocence when I was a child up to about 7 years old when it came about that I didn't want anyone to see me naked and at that age nor did I want anyone telling me I was being bad .... I would say, yes we all have experienced being completely caught up in God.

Matthew 18:3
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Praise God our fleshly being is not without the indwelling HOLY SPIRIT OF CHRIST JESUS.

And of course, in marriage, IF each are completely open with each other and not inhibited, they will be not ashamed of any nakedness, be it physical or emotional... With the grace of the Lord IF they obey and abide, they will be saved FROM the sins of the world. Jesus didn't die on the cross, rise from the dead and ascend into heaven for us to be of no avail.

Praise God we are redeemed. We need not dwell on the sins and ineficiencies of the past so as to stifle us from our forward walk. Yes, it is a sad thing from which we came out of... the carnality, and yet still the pull towards temptations. No all is not lost! We need not think we are without a means to an end. Jesus our example, our covering... We are not to walk as being naked nor be ashamed any longer, even if people try to inflict that upon you. Jesus didn’t die for us to walk in nakedness or shame. We have the full armour of God to wear daily.


Ephesians 6:10-20
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

Revelation 22:13-14
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


.

 

[Vic C.]

Since Fem quoted me, let me modify the quote so it doesn't just address Stranger.

(Someone) will have to prove of course, that admixture is transferred to the reproductive genes. Until someone can prove without shadow of a doubt this is cause for concern and somehow can lead to human mutations and somehow affect our (God given) spirit, I stand on what I believe and posted. Separating the physical from the spiritual, nothing can affect the spiritual likeness between man and God. That is the essence of Gen 1:26.

Find us concrete evidence that replacing a human heart valve with one from a pig can and will directly change the human reproductive genes and make us less human; that was my challenge.

Do you all realize that until technology and chemistry advanced to the point where we can now produce Insulin, the most widely distributed Insulin came from pigs. We used it for years and the number of Diabetes sufferers who have benefited from it is astounding. They still look and act like humans to me. Some of them are Christians too! ;)

 

[Fembot]

Our disobedience happens out of God's will, no?

If God did not want something to happen it would not happen. Nothing happens outside of God's will.

 

[Benoni]

Psalm 90: 1 Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations 2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. 3Thou turnest man to destruction; (It was God who ordained Adams fall) and sayest, Return, ye children of men.

Our disobedience happens out of God's will, no?

 

[Benoni]

Jeremiah 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.


The Children of Israel could of taken 9 days to cross the wilderness. BUT No God led them for forty years. Now we are walking in this wilderness of life for the same reason:
Deut 8:1-2

All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers. 2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments. (KJV)

It was God who ask Satan about Job.
It was God who hardened Pharoah's heart six times and it still was not hard enough to do his purpose, so God hardened it a seventh time.
It was an evil spirit from God who came upon Saul. This is called the left hand of God.

 

[Relic]

Jeremiah 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.


The Children of Israel could of taken 9 days to cross the wilderness. BUT No God led them for forty years. Now we are walking in this wilderness of life for the same reason:
Deut 8:1-2

All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers. 2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments. (KJV)

It was God who ask Satan about Job.
It was God who hardened Pharoah's heart six times and it still was not hard enough to do his purpose, so God hardened it a seventh time.
It was an evil spirit from God who came upon Saul. This is called the left hand of God.

God gives people over to what is in their heart. He makes it so as their behavior is, God makes it so as to what is in the heart of a man. The evil spirit from god because Saul's heart was evil. God gave Saul what was in his heart. If you will to be like the devil God will give you the evil that is in your heart....All things are granted from God by your will, your choice. You ask for it, you get it.... That is freedom of choice at work... IT's from God, granted to you as you willed it to be. God allows you to have an evil heart if you want. He allowed Lucifer to choose, and he'll allow others to choose.... Yep, it's all from God giving us over to what we will to be. Jesus knew that and preached it.

Read the beginnings of Job, you will see where jobs fear was. God knew Job had fear in his heart and that he was thinking constantly "worried" about this family looking to protect them rather than completely resting in God's provision of protection. That is why God asked Satan about Job. The test was now on Job because of his fear. Fear is of Satan, Job gave himself over to the testing of Satan because he harbored fear.

God hardened Pharoh's heart because Pharoh had a hard heart to begin with (God gives th eperson over to what is in the heart of the person) God hardened it because he was stubborn hard hearted. God gives the person over to what he is in his heart (He makes it so as the person is so stuck on God allows it.. It's like, Okay, you asked for it, now you got it. The Lord God makes it so) People make their own beds, so to speak. You have to read the persons behavior before hand and you will see that God gave them over to what what they were being.

Saul was evil in his heart. God gave him over to his own behavior. God gives what people ask for! He makes it so. Read the behavior of each of these people before you read about God these things being "from" God or, God "made"

The people were in the wilderness for forty years because they were a stubborn griping people. If they relied on trusting God without harboring their fears and worries, they wouldn't have taken so long. they hindered themselves! You read in the bible that they did not make it into the promised land because of their own behavior. It was the next generation that made it. God knew what was in their hearts and that their own stinking thinking was their delay. God gives people over to their own behaviors. If they refuse to completely rely on God they get exactly what they are holding onto in their hearts. God makes it so because they acted so in their heart - stubbornly. God makes what they ask for. He gives them over to their own demise. Their own selfishness got them exactly what they asked for! If they ask amiss, that's what they get. God allows the freedom of choice. Nothing happens without God "allowing" it to happen, but if someone has a direction that is perverse from the Holy Path of God, they will get the perverse rather than the righteousness. They ask amiss.

James knew this all too well about people who draw nigh to the devil and that's what they get. he also knew all to well that if they resist the devil and draw nigh to God that God will draw nigh to them.

James 4:1- 7
1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? 2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. 3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. 4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. 5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? 6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. 7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.


Jesus knew that whatever a man thinks in his heart and believes that so it will be, that God makes it so as the man is in his heart.

Mark 11:23
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Jeremiah 17:10
I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

God gives us over to what we hold onto! God makes it so. He allows us to choose whatever we wear, that's what we are. It's about the type of cloth we place over our heart. What we hold onto, what we put on... that is what God makes (allows) to be. what we ask is what we will to become, even when we ask amiss, that is what we will be. .

We all need to be very careful of what we allow to come into our lives.... God will give us over to it. as He did Pharoah, as He did Job, as He did Saul, as He did David in all the good and the evil David had in his heart! as He did Lucifer, as He did Eve, as He did Judas, as He did Samson, as He did so many others. God made it as they were in their hearts. He also granted redemption to the repentant heart. God gives us over to our will, it is his allowance to us to have freedom of will. It greives Holy Spirit when we draw away from Him. It bring Joy when we draw towards Him.

.

 

[Fembot]

Relic: He also granted redemption to the repentant heart. God gives us over to our will, it is his allowance to us to have freedom of will. It greives Holy Spirit when we draw away from Him. It bring Joy when we draw towards Him.

 

[Benoni]

We have no will or freewill to draw unto God, the word freewill or choice are non-scriptural words; in fact the Bible declares the total opposite. You are right in using the word draw.



John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Gk(drag) him: and I will raise him up at the last day. and John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw (Gk(drag) all men unto me.

The word draw is the Greek word from Strong’s 1670: helkuo (hel-koo'-o);or helko (hel'-ko); probably akin to 138; to drag (literally or figuratively): There is no choice for the person when God draws you, drags you or forces you to come; it is God choice not little man.


The Bible does not teach freewill, does not use the word freewill or man having a choice in the context of salvation, in fact what the Bible does show us is totally contrary to the religious word freewill. I see no free mortal agent or choice when it comes to salvation in its pages. I have searched the scriptures; a word that comes from the mind of man or the traditions of religion and not the scriptures; except the Freewill Offering in the OT. Now there are a few verses in the OT the hint towards free will and even the gospels towards following Jesus; but that has nothing to do with salvation; salvation is a NT revelation only after Christ death and resurrection. What I see is God drawing/dragging people


Notice look at Ephesians 2

Notice the order, God must quicken us be we are dead in sins; then He saves us by grace; then and only then do we have faith and I will add once this has happen we had no choice or freewill.


Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

(Eph. 6:17). Then the writer to the Hebrews declares that the sword of God’s word is "QUICK ."Quick means living and active  LIFE-GIVING! "For the word of God that speaks is alive and full of power  making it active, operative, energizing and effective; it is sharper than any two-edged sword" (Heb. 4:12, Amplified).

2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast

 

[stranger]

Vic C wrote:

(Someone) will have to prove of course, that admixture is transferred to the reproductive genes. Until someone can prove without shadow of a doubt this is cause for concern and somehow can lead to human mutations and somehow affect our (God given) spirit, I stand on what I believe and posted. . .

Find us concrete evidence that replacing a human heart valve with one from a pig can and will directly change the human reproductive genes and make us less human; that was my challenge.

Hi Vic,

Forensically, if a man's physical body is examined a verdict can be given to each constituent part: bones human, skin human, kidneys human, brain human, .... and eventually if we arrive the pig's heart valve the verdict is 'animal'. This is an argument in degree insofar as percentages are concerned, percentage human versus percentage animal. The natural and absolute standard is 100% human. The pig's heart valve does not contribute to man's physical humanity, indeed it cannot, and conversely, must in some degree, decrease it. I am not talking about other things - only the physical body.

Interestingly enough in 1 Cor 15 Paul speaks about the natural body and the heavenly body and the composition of living things by saying there is one flesh for man, another for animals, another for fish etc. As a type of physical flesh 'animal part transplants' fall outside what is naturally one flesh for man.

As to affects upon the human reproductive genes animal part transplants require 'pharmaceutical products' to prevent the body from rejecting the transplant. This rejection is what I would call natural and has to be artifically suppressed by unnatural means. Though there are problems with human to human organ tranplants and I have no objection to these.

Separating the physical from the spiritual, nothing can affect the spiritual likeness between man and God. That is the essence of Gen 1:26.

Still not the clearest sentence you have ever written - what do you mean by separating the physical from the spiritual? In these discussions references to the physical man would presumeably fall into the framework of man being 'body, soul and spirit.'

Genesis 1:26 (NASB)
Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

Are you saying regardless of what man becomes 'physically' (or spiritually?) this cannot affect the image of God in man?

blessings

 

[stranger]

We cant possibly have been created in Gods PHYSICAL image as God is spirit.

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
(John 4:24 KJV)

Jesus was not yet born into His PHYSICAL form when Adam was created. It is frankly not even reasonable to claim that Adam was created in Gods PHYSICAL image when God did not have kidneys, or a liver, or a prostrate when Adam was created.

Hi follower of Christ,

Agreed that God is Spirit, and while we hold to this we also believe that Jesus Christ was resurrected and glorified. All that is said is that Adam was CREATED IN God's image and likeness, while Jesus WAS the image and likeness of God in which Adam was created.

blessings

 

[stranger]

handy wrote:

I agree, Benoni. I think we have a very limited understanding of what is meant by the statement God is Spirit. Some have taken this to mean that God cannot possibly have any physical attributes. And yet, descriptions of God having physical attributes are all over the Scriptures. The bible talks of God's face, His hands, His eyes, and so on.

Yes, the Scriptures tells us that God is Spirit. ..... And I believe that the many description of God's physical attributes must cause us to re-examine what is meant by spirit.

Frankly, I've never been sure as to why "physical" and "spiritual" were set up to be defined as opposites, unable to occupy the same place and time.

Hi handy,

Man is body, soul and spirit so it is not intentional that the physical is defined as opposite to the spiritual. I see them as occupying different realms for want of a better expression. When Jesus was born of a woman it was a one way trip and His resurrection and glorification are not reversible 'events.' This would mean that the spiritual body Paul speaks of in 1 Cor 15 has parts. It seems that the image and likeness of God FACTORS all this in in the creation of Adam AND when the Word became flesh. If we focus only on Adam's creation in the image and likeness of God what do we do with the resurrected Christ who has a spiritual body for all eternity?

blessings