Bible Study The Law and Christ

[Jim Parker]

Man is made in Gods image. And mans image is in weakness, corruption, dishonor, made so by God Himself.

That is in direct contradiction to what scripture says.
Gen 1:31(RSV) And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good.
Weakness, corruption and dishonor are NOT "good."
God did not create man in weakness, corruption and dishonor. Man did that to himself.

That's why it's an "image" that was made as a PRECURSOR to the final product...

That is NOT the meaning of the word "image." (Unless you're Alice in Wonderland.) It is a visual representation. So, when Paul said of Jesus "He is the image of the invisible God," (Col 1:15 RSV) he did not mean that mean Jesus was a "PRECURSOR" of the final product. Jesus is NOT some kind of a precursor; he is the exact representation of God's nature, (Heb 1:3 NASB)

That's exactly what God is saying. The natural body comes first. It is proceeded by the final product. That's the way God does things. 1 Cor. 15:46.

That's what God did to destroy the work of the devil.
God did not make any defective junk as you assert.

Even Jesus was born a man and resurrected a Glorified Spiritual Body.

He wasn't born a man so He could be resurrected with a glorified body. He was born a man who was perfectly without sin so He could destroy the work of the devil. He has a "glorified spiritual" and physical body because He is God incarnate.

When mankind is raised from the grave, both the good and the evil, all will have incorruptible and immortal bodies. That is the way God created Adam; immortal and incorruptible. Adam caused that immortal and incorruptible body to be subject to weakness, corruption and dishonor by his sin.

God doesn't make junk as you insist that He does.

 

[Jim Parker]

Apparently you can't see the circular reasoning above.

Apparently you can't tell the difference between God's image and man.

 

[smaller]

That is in direct contradiction to what scripture says.
Gen 1:31(RSV) And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good.

Was the tempter/deceiver good? The knowledge of evil, good?

Only in Gods Own Superior Hands are these things USED for good.

Weakness, corruption and dishonor are NOT "good."

Then maybe we should suggest a re-write of Paul's 1 Corinthian 15 portion? But that IS "how" Paul said Adam was MADE. Even earlier showing that just like Adam, all die. That is the death of the natural man in the conditions of his flesh, which IS how we are all "made."

God did not create man in weakness, corruption and dishonor. Man did that to himself.

Unlikely. Unless we want to claim that neither God or the tempter/deceiver were involved. So, by eliminating the other two parties completely I can see how you can justify that sight. I can't to do that, honestly. Sounds like the balance is a rehash, so moving on.

 

[smaller]

Apparently you can't tell the difference between God's image and man.

How many quotes would you like?

James 3:9
Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

 

[Jim Parker]

Was the tempter/deceiver good? The knowledge of evil, good?

So you're saying that the scripture is wrong and you know better.
Astounding!
Where does a mere man get such knowledge as to be able to correct the errors of the the Holy Spirit and set scripture aright?
So when scripture reports that, "God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good." (Gen 1:31) that's WRONG! Not everything was good. According to "Smaller" man and 1/3 the angels were BAD. And Smaller knows better than the Bible.

The tempter was created good. He was also created with free will, just like man was. And he said to himself,"I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High." But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit. (Isa 14:13-15 RSV) So the deceiver chose to rebel against God just as man chose to disobey God.

And the knowledge of good and evil was neutral, neither good nor bad.

But that IS "how" Paul said Adam was MADE.

In what Bible????
Paul said nothing of the sort. 1 Cor 15 does not make any statement at all about how man was made.
1Co 15:42 (RSV) So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable.
1Co 15:43 (RSV) It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.

Q: What field of endeavor uses the word "sown"?
A: Farming
Q: What is sown?
A: Seed
Q: How is it sown?
A: It's planted in the earth.
Q: When is man planted in the earth, when God created him or when he dies?
A: When he dies.
Q: What is his condition when he dies?
A: Dishonor (his died because he sinned) and weakness. (He could not prevent himself from sinning.)
That passage has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with how man was created.
It is talking about how man is buried and how he will be resurrected.

 

[Jim Parker]

James 3:9
Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

cute
All you have clearly shown is that you have no business telling anyone what the Bible says.

 

[Malachi]

God is NOT against His Own Words, and can NOT be. To even think that is against His Own Words is utter nonsense.

God cannot be against His own words. But God has the right to set aside the Old Covenant for the New. If you don't believe that, search the Scriptures, and if your still don't believe that, then you have a very serious problem.

 

[smaller]

God cannot be against His own words. But God has the right to set aside the Old Covenant for the New.

Isn't that what you're trying to do above? Matt. 4:4 and Luke 4:4 shows every Word of God is and remains entirely valid. Perhaps more of a question of "how" that is and remains so. And that is answered by your statement.

 

[smaller]

So you're saying that the scripture is wrong and you know better.
Astounding!

There is no question whatsoever that God can and does make good come about from evil and adversity, by His Own Power. He Is always the over riding factor in all things.

Where does a mere man get such knowledge as to be able to correct the errors of the the Holy Spirit and set scripture aright?

What makes you think I did? I challenge phony constructs from readers. Even my own.

So when scripture reports that, "God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good." (Gen 1:31) that's WRONG! Not everything was good. According to "Smaller" man and 1/3 the angels were BAD. And Smaller knows better than the Bible.

There is no question to me that God created the knowledge of evil and the tempter (who is ALSO EVIL) and placed same in the Garden by His Own Intentions. And gave the LAW to incite the tempter. Mark 4:15, 1 John 3:8.

It's common however for readers to not see that Satan is also moved by the Law to resist the Law and to do so in the flesh of MAN. That's what Satan was made by God to do.

God also planted Adam in weakness, corruption and dishonor, just as Paul states in 1 Cor. 15. To me these are obvious. It's only the stories of others who don't read what's there to read that say otherwise. God never had any intentions whatsoever to leave Adam bound into a wet dust pile for eternity.

The tempter was created good.

I find no justifications for that sight in the scriptures. It is a religious fairytale that sprung up out of the freewill camp. Satan was never Holy, never perfect EXCEPT in his DEVIL PERFECT ways, just as scripture states.

I'd suggest that we have a difference is basic theodicy understandings. Most freewillers don't believe God created the power of evil. Most determinists see otherwise, that God created all powers and uses them as He Pleases.

There are factually 3 wills in operation. Gods Will, man's will and the will of the resistor, Satan. Only ONE of those Wills matters in the final analysis. And seeing the other two wills operate in the flesh, it's problematic to claim the freewill of man because man is not alone between our own two ears. We all have to deal with the will of the lawless one in temptations, lusts, deceptions and ultimately, that brings about the death of our flesh, just as God planned.

Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

Once any believer SEES MAN as scripture sees man, their sights will change.

Here is how scripture sees man: Mark 4:15. This shows TWO entities in the heart. The man and Satan, stealing, deceiving, destroying and killing.

It is the same sight Paul laid upon himself in 2 Cor. 12:7. It is the same sight John laid upon all mankind in 1 John 3:8. And it is the same sight Jesus saw "all men" with when He openly DIVIDED one from the other in thousands of N.T. examples.

 

[Jim Parker]

Every Word of God is the Word of Christ. There is no variance in God, though there be an abundance of diversity in His Working and Intentions.

That is very well put.

God is NOT against His Own Words, and can NOT be. To even think that is against His Own Words is utter nonsense.

That is not to say that God cannot be against OUR UNDERSTANDING of His words. God is not obligated to fulfill our misunderstanding of what He said.
Ask Job's friends.

 

[smaller]

That is very well put.

That is not to say that God cannot be against OUR UNDERSTANDING of His words. God is not obligated to fulfill our misunderstanding of what He said.
Ask Job's friends.

Needless to say Gods Word does cause the adversary to resist, and to do so in the flesh. That's what happened with both Adam and Eve. There are 3 components. Gods Words, the persons, the adversary. God is FOR the persons and simultaneously against the adversary, and the adversary against Gods Words.

Seldom factored in by the viewers, who are "led" by the adversary to 'overlook' that working. We all naturally tend to view ourselves in the best light possible, and that is fine. But we should not be neglectful of the other converse/adverse working of the adversary in our own flesh.

The Spirit is precisely against and contrary to the flesh precisely for this reason. Gal. 5:17.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So you're saying that the scripture is wrong and you know better.
Astounding!
Where does a mere man get such knowledge as to be able to correct the errors of the the Holy Spirit and set scripture aright?

Welcome to cf.net, lol.
That's the laugh of an insane madman, driven crazy by the continual flow of ridiculous doctrines in this forum.

 

[Malachi]

Isn't that what you're trying to do above? Matt. 4:4 and Luke 4:4 shows every Word of God is and remains entirely valid.

There is a big difference between every word remaining "entirely valid" and God putting the Old Covenant behind and ushering in the New Covenant. If both covenants were to be operational at one and the same time, the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ would be nullified. Is that what you believe?

 

[smaller]

There is a big difference between every word remaining "entirely valid" and God putting the Old Covenant behind and ushering in the New Covenant. If both covenants were to be operational at one and the same time, the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ would be nullified. Is that what you believe?

I see no way to legitimately invalidate any Word of God on the basis you propose. Both the Law(s) and the New Covenant remain in effect, just as Jesus said in multiple citings.