The law of Righteousness

[Adullam]

GD wrote "The justice of God was satisfied when Christ bore our sins in His body on the cross. When man believes that...righteousness is accounted to him. "

LOL 80% of Americans believe as you do. The mafia believe this. There is no power in what you are saying. You are taking the power out of the true faith in silly statements that change nothing but give sentimental comfort to a rebellious people.

Jesus died for the sins of the world. It is GOD who justifies. Don't seek to justify yourself through your own belief. The Pharisees justified themselves through their faith in Moses...yet Moses would condemn them for their ways. So it is with Christ and His modern suitors. There is no shame before their eyes.

You're wrong. What you're describing is dead faith...that which the devils have. I'm surprised you don't know the difference. It certainly is God who justifies, and He does that through the faith of Jesus Christ. It is His faith you are denouncing as inadequate to save and to keep those who look to Him for their salvation. I'm hardly the one who seeks to justify myself...that would be those of you who think you can somehow be obedient enough or righteous enough to do the work Jesus came to do...which was reconcile man with God. It's the work of the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us...to conform us into the image of Christ. You doubt the power of God, and mourn the unrighteousness of those who claim to be sons. That's your personal problem...not the problem of those who know God's power in their lives.

Where is your faith in the power of God? I don't see it. You have more faith in the power of man to frustrate the will of God. God is more than able to accomplish every work He starts. I see Him working in the lives of believers every day. Just because you can't see it does not mean it isn't there. It sounds like you've been out of fellowship for quite some time....the Word warns us to not forsake the assembling of ourselves together. Seek out the brethern and you will see God is not the incompetent you seem to think Him.

Why would I be out of fellowship? One need not drink the communal kool-aid to be in fellowship. I am an overseer in a church. My calling is to rescue the lost among the believers in Jesus. To see them survive on that day, rather than be rejected.

The power lies with God, not with man. Our claims to acceptance of God are of no consequence. If a man declares his own greatness, how great is he really? If a man claims to be just....how just is he?

It is wise to leave the justifying to God. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when wishful schemers have their bubbles permanently burst. I would see to it that believers would awaken from their error and stick their heads out of the sands of deception. Look deeper.

 

[glorydaz]

Actually glorydaz is correct.

You are correct in stating that it is God who justifies but apart from the crucifixion of Jesus Christ God cannot justify anyone. If all we needed was to repent and live faithfully then there is no need to send Jesus and have him crucified. There would be no need to believe on him.

The power of justification rests on the crucifixion of Christ alone. If Jesus Christ carried the burden for our sins it means we *will* come to saving faith in Jesus Christ and we *will* come to repentance and do the works of God.

In this universe that God created no sin can ever go unpunished. This is the very nature of God's justice. Eternal death is the only satisfactory payment that can be made for sin. Living a life of good deeds or repentance in itself (apart from the crucifixion of Jesus Christ) in no way can make a person justified in the sight of God. It can never pay the costly price that sin demands.

You are saying that God cannot justify anyone without Jesus' sacrifice. Since when did God lose the right to justify? Since when did mere mortals decide who is justified and who is not? You are mistaken in thinking that Jesus is protecting us from a big bad god. This is the modern position...that God is powerless over us because we are hiding behind Jesus. We can be rebellious and sinful, yet we can rule with Christ (let alone be justified). Just say the magic words. Jesus I accept you! We have become little tyrant gods in our own right to justify ourselves through our own belief. The Father is now powerless over us. So the story goes.

God is sovereign. He can have mercy on whom He wills. It is only God who justifies. He must accept us...not we Him. So the opposite of your assertions are true.

Jesus died for all men...but it is God who decides who lives and dies...not men.

You are wrong about God...He is love!

That is not how the "story goes". It's you that questions God. His plan from the beginning, if you care to believe the Word of God, was for man to be justified by faith...not by works. Faith is the means to God's Grace. You cannot change what God has decreed by saying what God "could" do. Jesus is the only WAY...the only TRUTH...and the only way man can have LIFE.

Archangel in no way said Jesus saves us from the big bad God...what a ridiculous statement. For one thing, Jesus is God. His death on the cross was a payment for SIN. All men sin and Jesus is our atonement for sin.

God is not powerless over us...for you to make such a claim shows your lack of understanding. Christ's righteousness is imputed to us so we can come before the throne of grace. When we're regenerated, the Holy Spirit begins His work in our lives. God is hardly powerless for He chastens us sorely when we disobey. Do you really believe in God? Don't you know His power? Don't you know His love for us? Do you have any clue what it means to have a circumcised heart? I certainly have my doubts when I read the things you post.

 

[Adullam]

I have walked by the power of God in the light. I have been to the throne room of God. This does not justify me. More is required of me than if I had net seen and heard what I have. I will be judged the harder. I am in a place of authority in Christ's Body. Again my responsibility is that much greater. It is my experience of reality in the Spirit that causes me to despair at the powerless claims of those who have seen nothing. The truth is according to power.

Here is a test for a believer.

Can a man walk as Christ and not sin in this life? What would a believer answer? What would you answer?

Most believers judge the word by their own experience. By doing so they deny the truth. They don't believe they can do all things through Christ since they have seen nothing beyond their own imaginings.

 

[Adullam]

Actually glorydaz is correct.

You are correct in stating that it is God who justifies but apart from the crucifixion of Jesus Christ God cannot justify anyone. If all we needed was to repent and live faithfully then there is no need to send Jesus and have him crucified. There would be no need to believe on him.

The power of justification rests on the crucifixion of Christ alone. If Jesus Christ carried the burden for our sins it means we *will* come to saving faith in Jesus Christ and we *will* come to repentance and do the works of God.

In this universe that God created no sin can ever go unpunished. This is the very nature of God's justice. Eternal death is the only satisfactory payment that can be made for sin. Living a life of good deeds or repentance in itself (apart from the crucifixion of Jesus Christ) in no way can make a person justified in the sight of God. It can never pay the costly price that sin demands.

You are saying that God cannot justify anyone without Jesus' sacrifice. Since when did God lose the right to justify? Since when did mere mortals decide who is justified and who is not? You are mistaken in thinking that Jesus is protecting us from a big bad god. This is the modern position...that God is powerless over us because we are hiding behind Jesus. We can be rebellious and sinful, yet we can rule with Christ (let alone be justified). Just say the magic words. Jesus I accept you! We have become little tyrant gods in our own right to justify ourselves through our own belief. The Father is now powerless over us. So the story goes.

God is sovereign. He can have mercy on whom He wills. It is only God who justifies. He must accept us...not we Him. So the opposite of your assertions are true.

Jesus died for all men...but it is God who decides who lives and dies...not men.

You are wrong about God...He is love!

That is not how the "story goes". It's you that questions God. His plan from the beginning, if you care to believe the Word of God, was for man to be justified by faith...not by works. Faith is the means to God's Grace. You cannot change what God has decreed by saying what God "could" do. Jesus is the only WAY...the only TRUTH...and the only way man can have LIFE.

Archangel in no way said Jesus saves us from the big bad God...what a ridiculous statement. For one thing, Jesus is God. His death on the cross was a payment for SIN. All men sin and Jesus is our atonement for sin.

God is not powerless over us...for you to make such a claim shows your lack of understanding. Christ's righteousness is imputed to us so we can come before the throne of grace. When we're regenerated, the Holy Spirit begins His work in our lives. God is hardly powerless for He chastens us sorely when we disobey. Do you really believe in God? Don't you know His power? Don't you know His love for us? Do you have any clue what it means to have a circumcised heart? I certainly have my doubts when I read the things you post.

It is the false idea of the magic Jesus covering that promotes a powerless God. God always sees our true state. If our heart is humble and contrite we can approach Him. God loves righteousness. Saying a magic word to gain access to God is actually more like sorcery. It is about the heart. God resists the wicked and proud and gives grace to the righteous hearted (humble). Only God decides when the heart is ready to be uplifted into the presence of God. We lose this position through an inflated pride at having been so honoured. Then we must be humbled once again etc....until we understand what God wants from us. He wants us to surrender...fully surrender. He wants us to trust Him...fully trust Him. We claim nothing for ourselves. Our life is hid with God. He will accept us or reject us at His bidding. We resist the temptation to be lifted up in our own conceit.

God's love is not a permissive thing...it is long-suffering. But He will not strive with man forever. Unless we become truly righteous He will reject us. The same happened with the nation of Israel. They relied on their special position and lost it. They claimed to be able to see the truth...so they were rejected. Many claim to see the truth in the church who have seen nothing....they remain proud and unteacheable. They will likewise be rejected. We are not greater than the Jews. It is a marvel that we have learned nothing, really, through their example. Salvation is conditional on obedience and pleasing God. We are to live to please our Master. He justifies based on the condition of the heart. A man cannot see his own heart. We leave the justifying to God. We are confident that no other can do this.

What sets me against the modern schemers IS my knowledge of God. One knows a counerfeit when one has seen the genuine.

 

[glorydaz]

You are saying that God cannot justify anyone without Jesus' sacrifice. Since when did God lose the right to justify? Since when did mere mortals decide who is justified and who is not? You are mistaken in thinking that Jesus is protecting us from a big bad god. This is the modern position...that God is powerless over us because we are hiding behind Jesus. We can be rebellious and sinful, yet we can rule with Christ (let alone be justified). Just say the magic words. Jesus I accept you! We have become little tyrant gods in our own right to justify ourselves through our own belief. The Father is now powerless over us. So the story goes.

God is sovereign. He can have mercy on whom He wills. It is only God who justifies. He must accept us...not we Him. So the opposite of your assertions are true.

Jesus died for all men...but it is God who decides who lives and dies...not men.

You are wrong about God...He is love!

God never lost the right to justify. His plan was set and established on whom he choose to save from before the foundation of the world. You are exactly right, it is God who decides who gets saved and who doesn't. You are exactly right, it is God who must accept us as we in our own carnal mind will not accept him. And you are right again that no magic words or formualas will save us or justify us.

One thing that I do disagree with you on is your statement that Jesus died for all men.
I'm certain Christ never paid for the sins of every mankind that ever lived. If that were the case every man would stand justified and spotless in his sight when judgment day comes. Christ only paid for a subset of the overall sins of mankind. It is these people whom God has chosen and will draw to Himself and it is these people who *will* come to saving faith. None of God's elect will be lost and each one will be sealed with the Holy Spirit before the end will come. The gospel call goes out to *everyone* but only those whose sins have already been paid for by Christ will desire Christ and salvation.

Jesus paid the price for the sins of the whole world...not for ours only.

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

If man does not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, he will die in his sins.
The gift must be accepted by believing.

Whosoever believeth shall have remission of sins.

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Whosoever believeth....will not perish, but have eternal life.

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[Ahuli]

Men no longer believe God. They rage against the truth and are confident. They read the warnings and don't take them to heart. They claim life for themselves and destroy righteousness in the earth. Lots of delusional belief...but little or no faith. Blind eyes and deaf ears. Same as it ever was.

When the Son of Man returns will He find faith on the earth?

"I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:8

When the Son of Man returns in power and great glory, He will find those who have been, are, waiting for HIM. Otherwise, not need to return.

 

[Adullam]

You are saying that God cannot justify anyone without Jesus' sacrifice. Since when did God lose the right to justify? Since when did mere mortals decide who is justified and who is not? You are mistaken in thinking that Jesus is protecting us from a big bad god. This is the modern position...that God is powerless over us because we are hiding behind Jesus. We can be rebellious and sinful, yet we can rule with Christ (let alone be justified). Just say the magic words. Jesus I accept you! We have become little tyrant gods in our own right to justify ourselves through our own belief. The Father is now powerless over us. So the story goes.

God is sovereign. He can have mercy on whom He wills. It is only God who justifies. He must accept us...not we Him. So the opposite of your assertions are true.

Jesus died for all men...but it is God who decides who lives and dies...not men.

You are wrong about God...He is love!

God never lost the right to justify. His plan was set and established on whom he choose to save from before the foundation of the world. You are exactly right, it is God who decides who gets saved and who doesn't. You are exactly right, it is God who must accept us as we in our own carnal mind will not accept him. And you are right again that no magic words or formualas will save us or justify us.

One thing that I do disagree with you on is your statement that Jesus died for all men.
I'm certain Christ never paid for the sins of every mankind that ever lived. If that were the case every man would stand justified and spotless in his sight when judgment day comes. Christ only paid for a subset of the overall sins of mankind. It is these people whom God has chosen and will draw to Himself and it is these people who *will* come to saving faith. None of God's elect will be lost and each one will be sealed with the Holy Spirit before the end will come. The gospel call goes out to *everyone* but only those whose sins have already been paid for by Christ will desire Christ and salvation.

Jesus paid the price for the sins of the whole world...not for ours only.
[quote="1 John 2:2":26bb0h74]And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

If man does not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, he will die in his sins.
The gift must be accepted by believing.

Whosoever believeth shall have remission of sins.

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Whosoever believeth....will not perish, but have eternal life.

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[/quote:26bb0h74]


I see that you see the emphasis that the word puts on "pistis" in the Greek. Rather than snapping the fingers and saying it is a snap.....an easy way out, perhaps looking deeper into the ramifications of that word is in order. Pistis is not a belief. Suicide bombers operate in belief...more belief, I might add, than is exhibited by modern Westerners. So it cannot mean belief or self-assurance.

Rather, pistis, means faith AND fidelity. Being and remaining true. Trusting and accepting the truth. Our ability to grasp the truth.

If a person is faithfully married for 49 years but in the 50th year has an affair...is that person faithful????

So it is with fidelity....with pistis.

If a person walks in the Spirit and heals the sick and raises the dead....but becomes proud of what he is become....is God pleased?

 

[Dave...]

The modern position is the powerless gospel that saves people who continue in unrighteousness and lawlessness. It really is a slam on righteousness. This position states that God is not looking for obedience at all. He says to us...relax, do whatever you like....I'll save you. In fact the more you "try" to do what is right, the less I will save you. So the modern gospel rewards the unrighteous and condemns the righteous-hearted. It is a powerless message that denies any possible victory over sin. It invents a secret Jesus covering that somehow blinds God to the reality of our true state. I don't seek to judge anyone for having believed the lie. I am merely trying to show the right way. I myself was infected with the false gospel virus for a long time. Hence my wish to help others who are similarly ensnared.

Who in this thread is trying to make a case for antinomianism?

Grace is certainly not a license to sin, and I don't believe that anybody in this thread has tried to teach that, in fact, I believe that most went out of their way to make sure that nobody misunderstood them in that regard, but we must also understand that the slippery slope of legalism is just as dangerous. We cannot be legally justified before God by our own righteousness, which is from the Law. The righteousness of God is a Divine righteousness imputed to us as a result of our initial faith, which places us into the Body of Christ.

On the one hand we can clearly see that a faith without the outward manifestation of works is a dead faith, thus it is not a true saving faith. True enough. But we also must know and understand that Jesus Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness for everyone who believes. That's not too complicated, right? The works evidence the genuineness of our profession of faith. The legal aspect of our justification before God rests soley on Christ Jesus and His merits alone, which we receive by grace alone, through faith alone. How could we dare look to ourselves for justification before God knowing that God has already told us that there is none righteous, no, not one, and therefore all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God?

A man who turns away from God has not fallen short in justifying himself before God. We all failed that test already. Rather, he gave evidence that his faith was not a genuine faith, so the righteousness of God was never imputed to that man to begin with. Same outcome, but the implications of the theological route one takes has a huge ripple affect through scripture. That's why we need to be careful.

Do you agree with me?

Anyways, they can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's all that glorydaz and archangel were saying.

Dave

 

[glorydaz]

One cannot manufacture shame. It is a facet of righteousness to feel shame at one's inabiblity to stop sinning. If we hated sin as we ought, we would feel shame in continuing in it. If we accept sin and even defend sin, then we are lawless.

Jesus Christ came to rescue the righteous-hearted by giving them the power to overcome sin through His resurrection life. This new life cannot be disconnected from the righteous heart in a man. The will of God is not accomplished through unbelief, cynicism and compromise.

We forsake what we hate. If sin were like dung to us, we would seek to forsake it. Paul goes even further....he forsakes all (even the good stuff) in order to be further empowered by Christ. He wants in on the available grace. So he is an example of one who is righteous seeking for holiness.

Jesus did not come to rescue the righteous-hearted. He came to save sinners, and to set the captives free from the power of sin. Man's heart is deceitfully wicked...which is why God has to circumcise our heart and give us a new one with which we can serve Him. Those who have been born of God do hate sin, because they love God. They would not be new creatures if that was not the case. Man can't glory in the work of God. We've been bought with a price, and we but do our duty when we obey Him. Paul is talking about our denying self....and allowing the Holy Spirit to work through us. Surrender your will to the Lord and allow Him to do His perfect work in your life. His yoke is easy and His burden is light...enter into His rest and you will see.

 

[glorydaz]

The modern position is the powerless gospel that saves people who continue in unrighteousness and lawlessness. It really is a slam on righteousness. This position states that God is not looking for obedience at all. He says to us...relax, do whatever you like....I'll save you. In fact the more you "try" to do what is right, the less I will save you. So the modern gospel rewards the unrighteous and condemns the righteous-hearted. It is a powerless message that denies any possible victory over sin. It invents a secret Jesus covering that somehow blinds God to the reality of our true state. I don't seek to judge anyone for having believed the lie. I am merely trying to show the right way. I myself was infected with the false gospel virus for a long time. Hence my wish to help others who are similarly ensnared.

Kudos. Wonder if any of them will listen to you... As you noted, religious pride turns us from being open to God's Word, esp. when His Word disagrees with our prized "theological schemes" that attempt to guarantee something that God does not guarantee. Salvation is conditional.

Regards

You both have a very strange idea of the Gospel to begin with, so it might be better if you didn't misrepresent what you clearly do not understand. Neither of you can tell the saved from the "claimed to be saved", and have to lump them all together in order to get all your fingers pointed in the same direction. :biglaugh

I know it may be hard for you to believe, but there are a whole lot of believers out there who know quite well the power of God being manifest in their lives. We are not in bondage to sin any longer. It has no more dominion over us. It's really just a matter of believing the truth of matter, instead of doubting every step of the way and spending all one's time accusing the brethern of sins they aren't even committing. Most of us realize we now have the liberty to walk in newness of life...I would hope the same for both of you. Move on to the higher calling and leave behind your old spirit of condemnation.

 

[glorydaz]

You're wrong. What you're describing is dead faith...that which the devils have. I'm surprised you don't know the difference. It certainly is God who justifies, and He does that through the faith of Jesus Christ. It is His faith you are denouncing as inadequate to save and to keep those who look to Him for their salvation. I'm hardly the one who seeks to justify myself...that would be those of you who think you can somehow be obedient enough or righteous enough to do the work Jesus came to do...which was reconcile man with God. It's the work of the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us...to conform us into the image of Christ. You doubt the power of God, and mourn the unrighteousness of those who claim to be sons. That's your personal problem...not the problem of those who know God's power in their lives.

Where is your faith in the power of God? I don't see it. You have more faith in the power of man to frustrate the will of God. God is more than able to accomplish every work He starts. I see Him working in the lives of believers every day. Just because you can't see it does not mean it isn't there. It sounds like you've been out of fellowship for quite some time....the Word warns us to not forsake the assembling of ourselves together. Seek out the brethern and you will see God is not the incompetent you seem to think Him.

Why would I be out of fellowship? One need not drink the communal kool-aid to be in fellowship. I am an overseer in a church. My calling is to rescue the lost among the believers in Jesus. To see them survive on that day, rather than be rejected.

The power lies with God, not with man. Our claims to acceptance of God are of no consequence. If a man declares his own greatness, how great is he really? If a man claims to be just....how just is he?

It is wise to leave the justifying to God. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when wishful schemers have their bubbles permanently burst. I would see to it that believers would awaken from their error and stick their heads out of the sands of deception. Look deeper.

Sorry if I'm not impressed. There are no "lost" among the believers. There are only "lost" among those who "profess" to believe and those who don't deny their unbelief. If you're looking for the lost among believers then you are merely setting yourself up as a judge of the brethern. That's nothing more than hypocrisy...check the beam in your own eye first. Tearing down the body of Christ is not a ministry....condemning those you "suspect" but have no knowledge of is the height of self-righteousness. You really should guard against that...preach the Gospel to the unsaved. Those of us who know the Lord can see your judgmental spirit, and it really isn't from the Lord.

 

[glorydaz]

I have walked by the power of God in the light. I have been to the throne room of God. This does not justify me. More is required of me than if I had net seen and heard what I have. I will be judged the harder. I am in a place of authority in Christ's Body. Again my responsibility is that much greater. It is my experience of reality in the Spirit that causes me to despair at the powerless claims of those who have seen nothing. The truth is according to power.

Here is a test for a believer.

Can a man walk as Christ and not sin in this life? What would a believer answer? What would you answer?

Most believers judge the word by their own experience. By doing so they deny the truth. They don't believe they can do all things through Christ since they have seen nothing beyond their own imaginings.

Do you realize what you're saying? You are boasting in yourself.

You may honestly believe you are in a position of authority, but you do not have enough knowledge of the Word of God to make that claim. I simply don't believe your boasting. You're still in need of the milk.

Whatever is not faith is sin. If you say you have no sin you are a liar, for all men sin and come short of the glory of God. Take my word for it...you come short. I come short. Paul came short and freely admitted it.

 

[glorydaz]

Who in this thread is trying to make a case for antinomianism?

Grace is certainly not a license to sin, and I don't believe that anybody in this thread has tried to teach that, in fact, I believe that most went out of their way to make sure that nobody misunderstood them in that regard, but we must also understand that the slippery slope of legalism is just as dangerous. We cannot be legally justified before God by our own righteousness, which is from the Law. The righteousness of God is a Divine righteousness imputed to us as a result of our initial faith, which places us into the Body of Christ.

On the one hand we can clearly see that a faith without the outward manifestation of works is a dead faith, thus it is not a true saving faith. True enough. But we also must know and understand that Jesus Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness for everyone who believes. That's not too complicated, right? The works evidence the genuineness of our profession of faith. The legal aspect of our justification before God rests soley on Christ Jesus and His merits alone, which we receive by grace alone, through faith alone. How could we dare look to ourselves for justification before God knowing that God has already told us that there is none righteous, no, not one, and therefore all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God?

A man who turns away from God has not fallen short in justifying himself before God. We all failed that test already. Rather, he gave evidence that his faith was not a genuine faith, so the righteousness of God was never imputed to that man to begin with. Same outcome, but the implications of the theological route one takes has a huge ripple affect through scripture. That's why we need to be careful.

Do you agree with me?

Anyways, they can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that's all that glorydaz and archangel were saying.

Dave

Dave,

You aren't wrong. And I'd just like you to know that you speak with real "authority" and truth. I thank the Lord for your maturity in sharing the Word, and hope you will continue to share on this forum. The need is great.

 

[francisdesales]

You both have a very strange idea of the Gospel to begin with, so it might be better if you didn't misrepresent what you clearly do not understand. Neither of you can tell the saved from the "claimed to be saved", and have to lump them all together in order to get all your fingers pointed in the same direction. :biglaugh

Hey, if it makes you feel good about yourself, whatever...

But let me remind you what has come to pass lately here about the Gospel...

1. There is no Scriptures to tell us that Christ's righteousness is applied to anyone. The Gospels clearly refute that, which is why you avoid the words of our Savior and prefer to twist the words of Paul to your destruction.
2. Your scheme has no need of obedience to God, no transformation, no sanctification. Oh, you play lip service to it, but there is absolutely nothing you have told me where we NEED it - it's Christ who does everything - although we don't see any Scriptures for that, either...
3. You refuse to recognize the REAL Gospel - that God forgives men without the need of a perfect sacrifice. Another reason why you refuse to look at the Gospels of Matthew Mark Luke and John. I could list over a dozen Scripture stories about Chirst forgiving the sorrow and repentance JUST based on a repentant asking for it...
4. You are confused on why Christ died on the cross... A blood thirsty Father of "love"???? Have you ever considered the contradiction in that???
5. Your idea of what a believer is and how the Bible defines it needs some serious work...

Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. Besides this you know what hour it is, how it is full time now for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed; Romans 13:8-11

Clearly, salvation is not done once we become believers... This is the same Paul writing to the same Christians who writes about justification by faith... Literally, an amazinng command from Paul who supposedly just told everyone that Christ's righteouesnesss covers everyonee who believes.

 

[archangel_300]

Jesus paid the price for the sins of the whole world...not for ours only.

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

If man does not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, he will die in his sins.
The gift must be accepted by believing.

Whosoever believeth shall have remission of sins.
[quote="Acts 10:43":22pz9l68]To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Whosoever believeth....will not perish, but have eternal life.

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[/quote:22pz9l68]

Yes Jesus paid for the sins of the world meaning both Jews and Gentiles and men/women/children from all walks of life and from all nations on the face of the earth. Christ never came to save only Jews.

So if Christ paid for my sins at the cross is it possible I can still be lost?
You alluded to this in your post when you said we must believe and accept.

What about this verse?

John 6:39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus paid the price for the sins of the whole world...not for ours only.
[quote="1 John 2:2":155f4dy7]And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

If man does not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, he will die in his sins.
The gift must be accepted by believing.

Whosoever believeth shall have remission of sins.
[quote="Acts 10:43":155f4dy7]To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Whosoever believeth....will not perish, but have eternal life.

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[/quote:155f4dy7]

Yes Jesus paid for the sins of the world meaning both Jews and Gentiles and men/women/children from all walks of life and from all nations on the face of the earth. Christ never came to save only Jews.

So if Christ paid for my sins at the cross is it possible I can still be lost?
You alluded to this in your post when you said we must believe and accept.

What about this verse?

John 6:39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.[/quote:155f4dy7]

Those who have been given are those who believe unto salvation. It is the will of God that Jesus will lose none. He will lose none. Once we're born of God we are assured of eternal life. He will preserve us until the day of redemption.

God foreknew who would believe...those who believe He predestined to be conformed.
We responded to His call..we looked upon the serpent on the pole and trusted in Him...we touched the rock from which flow rivers of living water....none will be lost, for we are now sons of God.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

 

[glorydaz]

But let me remind you what has come to pass lately here about the Gospel...

1. There is no Scriptures to tell us that Christ's righteousness is applied to anyone. The Gospels clearly refute that, which is why you avoid the words of our Savior and prefer to twist the words of Paul to your destruction.

Of course there are, you just choose to ignore them.

Righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ...unto all and upon all them that believe. Surely you aren't claiming that all who believe have enough righteousness of their own to be justified before God and to come before the throne of God?

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Found in Him...not having mine own righteousness but that which is through the faith of Christ.
It's very clear...even though we're IN HIM...it is not our own righteousness.

And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

We even "obtain faith" through the righteousness of Christ.

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2. Your scheme has no need of obedience to God, no transformation, no sanctification. Oh, you play lip service to it, but there is absolutely nothing you have told me where we NEED it - it's Christ who does everything - although we don't see any Scriptures for that, either...

Keep your "lip service" digs to yourself, Joe. Your flesh is showing again.

There are mountains of scripture and I've provided you with many of them, but since you don't understand the difference between justification and sanctification you can't understand what I've posted, apparently. First we are justified by faith, regenerated (raised into newness of life), sanctified (set apart) and the process of sanctification begins. That is where we learn to walk in obedience...when we fail to obey, we're chastened as sons of God. We obviously need to learn obedience or we won't mature and learn to keep our childish comments in check.

3. You refuse to recognize the REAL Gospel - that God forgives men without the need of a perfect sacrifice. Another reason why you refuse to look at the Gospels of Matthew Mark Luke and John. I could list over a dozen Scripture stories about Chirst forgiving the sorrow and repentance JUST based on a repentant asking for it...

Wrong, God required a perfect sacrifice for sin. Jesus Christ the Lamb of God. Without sacrifice, there is no remission of sin. I can't believe you don't know that Jesus died to take away our sin. Repentance does not remove sin...only the cross did that. Repentance only means we accept that sacrifice on our behalf. Shame on you, Joe, for denying the cross was necessary. My goodness...that's something even a child understands quite well. Christ died for your sins...you didn't repent them away, or cry them away.

Yes, indeed....God demanded a sacrifice for sin.

But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

4. You are confused on why Christ died on the cross... A blood thirsty Father of "love"???? Have you ever considered the contradiction in that???

What you fail to understand is God is absolutely righteous, and it's only by sending His Son to die on the cross that man could ever be reconciled to God.

Why was Christ "wounded"..."bruised", beaten, spat upon, and crucified? Why did a loving God allow that to happen, Joe? Just for His own pleasure as you said before? It was because of SIN. It was for your sin, and you make light of it as if it didn't even need to happen. You demean God by even using the term "blood thirsty". I can only shake my head in dismay when you make such statements.

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. Besides this you know what hour it is, how it is full time now for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed; Romans 13:8-11

Clearly, salvation is not done once we become believers... This is the same Paul writing to the same Christians who writes about justification by faith... Literally, an amazinng command from Paul who supposedly just told everyone that Christ's righteouesnesss covers everyonee who believes.

No, Paul is speaking of making use of the time left on this earth. We are saved when we are born of the Spirit, we await the redemption of our bodies. Paul is not speaking of our eternal salvation being in jeopardy at all, but to awaken to any spiritual lethargy before we pass from this world. Each day brings us nearer to the day of salvation. The day of salvation, as used here, is the day we go to be with the Lord at our physical death. We are saved by grace through faith when we believe. We are given eternal life at that point. We await the day when we're absent from our bodies and present with the Lord...then we await the day we will be given our spiritual bodies. You need to be careful to read the entire context and take into account all the verses that say we're given eternal life when we believe. The whole Word, Joe...not a piece-meal approach, please.

 

[archangel_300]

Those who have been given are those who believe unto salvation. It is the will of God that Jesus will lose none. He will lose none. Once we're born of God we are assured of eternal life. He will preserve us until the day of redemption.

God foreknew who would believe...those who believe He predestined to be conformed.
We responded to His call..we looked upon the serpent on the pole and trusted in Him...we touched the rock from which flow rivers of living water....none will be lost, for we are now sons of God.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Yes, I agree with you. None will be lost.
So you seem to agree that if Christ paid for someones sins they cannot be lost. Because if Christ paid for someone's sin it also means that it is within the plan of God to also redeem that person. You say God knew by foreknowledge that they would believe in him eventually.

Did Christ pay for the sins of every single individual who would ever come into existence?

 

[Dave...]

1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

John 11:51 Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, 52 and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad.
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1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

John 11:51 Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, 52 and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad.

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1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

John 11:51 Now this he did not say on his own authority; but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, 52 and not for that nation only, but also that He would gather together in one the children of God who were scattered abroad.

 

[Adullam]

Eternal life is a type of life. When we are born of the Spirit we enter into this type of life. If we continue steadfastly unto the end in this type of life we will rule with Christ.

If we become proud and lazy in our walk then we stand to lose our place. Many have lost their place in order to give us the chance. We must never be smug. If we do not learn righteousness we remain blind and frustrate the grace of God. Our ultimate salvation is conditional on continued faithfulness and perseverance.