The meaning of Rom 1:1

[dan p]

Hi to all , and Rom 1:1 , has a lot to say , that most christians never notice !!!

1) Paul a slave of Jesus Christ called an Apostle , SEPARATED unto the gospel of God .

#1 , the Greek word for separated is APHORIZO , which can be translated 3 different ways !

a) by the word Separated
b) by the word Boundries
c) by the word Limited

#2 , What Paul was Separated to , was the Gospel of God , period , and why I can be emphatic is because the word APHORIZO , is in the Greek Perfect Tense . The Perfect Tense means Past Action with Continuing results . A good example of the Perfect Tense was , when Jesus was on the Cross and said " it is finished " , that is in the Perfect Tense . That is Past Action , with Continuing results , because Jesus just keeps saving and does NOT have to go back and die indivuidually , and died ONLY ONCE .

#3 , The Past Action here is when Paul is saved . And that means Paul can NOT go back an be a Pharisee , because the word APHORIZO , means that Paul is NOW LIMITED to only preach the Gospel of God and can never preach the Gospel of the Kingdom or what the 12 Apostles preached .

#4 , So , that means also that the Body of Christ BEGAN with Paul ! Not the Church , but the Body of Christ .

#5 , This Greek word is also in the Passive Voice , which means that it was Christ that did this action to Paul .

#6 , And it is also in the Greek Indicative Mood , which means that what happened to Paul is a FACT .

 

[handy]

I really don't agree with your #4 there, but perhaps I'm not understanding why you are saying this...

The Body of Christ didn't begin with Paul, nor does Romans 1:1 say that it does.

Can you clarify a bit, on this.

 

[Ret]

Paul is NOW LIMITED to only preach the Gospel of God and can never preach the Gospel of the Kingdom or what the 12 Apostles preached

If Romans 1:1 were a single position of thought, you might have a point. But the next few verses in Romans give clearer meaning to this 'gospel of God' ....

• Romans 1:1-6
  1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
  2(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
  3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
  4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
  5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
  6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: KJV
  

dan p...in light of what the rest of the chapter of Romans 1 sounds like the same 'gospel of the Kingdom' as given to the 12...

 

[seekandlisten]

I have to agree with handy here and ask for a little clarification on #4 as well as what you are putting forward. Paul being 'separated' for the gospel means nothing more, to me anyways, then 'God' 'predestined' him to take on that role. Or in other words, 'God's will' for him. The 'Body of Christ' is not a 'physical' thing that can be seen or described. My perception on it is that the 'Body' is all those brought together by the 'Spirit' who 'work' solely for one purpose, 'God's'. The 'kingdom' is 'in our midst' and we must realize that. The 'body' isn't divided, but has many parts. The 'Body' has nothing to do with religion or 'beliefs' but our hearts. We don't 'choose' to be a part of this 'Body' we either are or we aren't plain and simple. This is where it gets hard to explain but another way of saying it is the 'kingdom of God' is not something that can be 'grasped'. We cannot be a part of this 'body' if our 'self' is still 'alive'. We cannot put 'limitations' or 'exclusions' on this 'Body' as it is not 'ours' to make that choice. The 'Body of Christ' began with 'God' and Christ is it's 'head'. Some random thoughts anyways.

 

[dan p]

I have to agree with handy here and ask for a little clarification on #4 as well as what you are putting forward. Paul being 'separated' for the gospel means nothing more, to me anyways, then 'God' 'predestined' him to take on that role. Or in other words, 'God's will' for him. The 'Body of Christ' is not a 'physical' thing that can be seen or described. My perception on it is that the 'Body' is all those brought together by the 'Spirit' who 'work' solely for one purpose, 'God's'. The 'kingdom' is 'in our midst' and we must realize that. The 'body' isn't divided, but has many parts. The 'Body' has nothing to do with religion or 'beliefs' but our hearts. We don't 'choose' to be a part of this 'Body' we either are or we aren't plain and simple. This is where it gets hard to explain but another way of saying it is the 'kingdom of God' is not something that can be 'grasped'. We cannot be a part of this 'body' if our 'self' is still 'alive'. We cannot put 'limitations' or 'exclusions' on this 'Body' as it is not 'ours' to make that choice. The 'Body of Christ' began with 'God' and Christ is it's 'head'. Some random thoughts anyways.

Hi seelandlisten , the Greek word for separated can be checked in Vine's , and the Perfect Tense can also be checked on the internet and you will need to gives verses to explain your premise .

 

[Ret]

... the Greek word for separated can be checked in Vine's , and the Perfect Tense can also be checked on the internet and you will need to gives verses to explain your premise .

dan p...what of Rom 1:2-6, which elaborates quite clearly about what Rom 1:1 means...?

Are you saying scripture is better understood by the uninspired writings of Vine's..?

 

[dan p]

... the Greek word for separated can be checked in Vine's , and the Perfect Tense can also be checked on the internet and you will need to gives verses to explain your premise .

dan p...what of Rom 1:2-6, which elaborates quite clearly about what Rom 1:1 means...?

Are you saying scripture is better understood by the uninspired writings of Vine's..?

Hi Ret , and I know the controversy concerning that verse , but that needs its own OP . I am never be amazed by those that try to say that this proves it can be in the Old Testament , but they NEVER will get around Eph 3:5 , can they ???? Can you prove that what I wrote is WRONG ?????

 

[Ret]

[quote="dan p":1gzlqg0a]

... the Greek word for separated can be checked in Vine's , and the Perfect Tense can also be checked on the internet and you will need to gives verses to explain your premise .

dan p...what of Rom 1:2-6, which elaborates quite clearly about what Rom 1:1 means...?

Are you saying scripture is better understood by the uninspired writings of Vine's..?

Hi Ret , and I know the controversy concerning that verse , but that needs its own OP . I am never be amazed by those that try to say that this proves it can be in the Old Testament , but they NEVER will get around Eph 3:5 , can they ???? Can you prove that what I wrote is WRONG ?????[/quote:1gzlqg0a]

What, needs its own OP?... don't think so! Ask one of the moderators! Let me re-state!

When one sees Romans 1:1-6 all together the confusion of verse one by itself will be answered.

 

[XTruth]

Paul seems to preach the same gospel......dont make a doctrine out of that single word and verse

[separated] Greek: aphorizo (GSN-<G873>), set apart. Translated "separate" (Mt. 25:32; Lk. 6:22; Acts 13:2; 19:9; Rom. 1:1; 2Cor. 6:17; Gal. 1:15; 2:12); "divide" (Mt. 25:32); and "sever" (Mt. 13:49). Three stages of Paul's separation:

1. At birth, in God's mind (Gal. 1:15)
2. At conversion, from Judaism to the gospel (Acts 9:15-16; 1Tim. 1:15-16)
3. At his commission, from secular work to the work of God (Acts 13:2; 26:16-18; 1Tim. 1:11-12)
[the gospel of God] The gospel of God (Acts 1:1-5):
1. The gospel defined (Acts 10:15)
2. Fulfillment of the promises (Acts 1:2)
3. A revelation (Gal. 1:11-12,16)
4. A manifestation of:
(1) God's creation (Acts 1:20; Eph. 3:9)
(2) Man's rebellion (Acts 1:21 -- Acts 3:23)
(3) God's love, mercy, and grace (Jn. 1:17; 3:16; Tit. 2:11-12; 3:5)
(4) God's wrath (Rom. 1:18-32)
(5) God's salvation (Rom. 1:16; 3:24-31; Jn. 3:16; 1Jn. 1:9)
(6) God's plan (Acts. 3:19-21; Rom. 8:19-25; Eph. 1:10; Rev. 21-22)
(7) Man's destiny: rebels (Mt. 25:41,46; Rev. 14:9-11; 20:10-15); the saved (Jn. 14:1-3; Rev. 5:10; 21:1 -- Rev. 22:5)

5. Historical and prophetic facts of the gospel (Lk. 24:44; 1Cor. 15:1-23)
6. Ordinances of the gospel:
(1) Water baptism (Mt. 28:19)
(2) The Lord's Supper (1Cor. 11:19-34)

7. Preaching of the gospel (Mt. 28:19-20; Lk. 24:41; Acts 1:8; 1Cor. 1:21)
8. Confirmation of the gospel (Mk. 16:15-20; Rom. 15:18-29; Heb. 2:1-4)

 

[seekandlisten]

I have to agree with handy here and ask for a little clarification on #4 as well as what you are putting forward. Paul being 'separated' for the gospel means nothing more, to me anyways, then 'God' 'predestined' him to take on that role. Or in other words, 'God's will' for him. The 'Body of Christ' is not a 'physical' thing that can be seen or described. My perception on it is that the 'Body' is all those brought together by the 'Spirit' who 'work' solely for one purpose, 'God's'. The 'kingdom' is 'in our midst' and we must realize that. The 'body' isn't divided, but has many parts. The 'Body' has nothing to do with religion or 'beliefs' but our hearts. We don't 'choose' to be a part of this 'Body' we either are or we aren't plain and simple. This is where it gets hard to explain but another way of saying it is the 'kingdom of God' is not something that can be 'grasped'. We cannot be a part of this 'body' if our 'self' is still 'alive'. We cannot put 'limitations' or 'exclusions' on this 'Body' as it is not 'ours' to make that choice. The 'Body of Christ' began with 'God' and Christ is it's 'head'. Some random thoughts anyways.

Hi seelandlisten , the Greek word for separated can be checked in Vine's , and the Perfect Tense can also be checked on the internet and you will need to gives verses to explain your premise .

Well, I don't need the 'letter of law' so to speak broken down, I believe in the living 'Word' so no offense but you're going to have to give me something more to go on than checking out 1 verse according to 'Vine's'. My premise can be found in the bible and I try to avoid verse picking as I can pretty much come up with all sorts of bizarre 'doctrines' by doing that so my premise is simply what I get from the bible, take it or leave it. My beliefs are simply that, my beliefs. My perception is different than yours especially on point #4 that is all, you are free to believe whatever you want. If you would wish to discuss a certain point I would be more than happy to.

cheers

 

[cyberjosh]

Can you explain and elaborate the theological principles behind your assertion for #4? Also would you mind telling me what your understanding of the meaning of Ephesians 4:15-16 is: "But speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love."

That would help clarify. Thanks!

~Josh

 

[dan p]

I have to agree with handy here and ask for a little clarification on #4 as well as what you are putting forward. Paul being 'separated' for the gospel means nothing more, to me anyways, then 'God' 'predestined' him to take on that role. Or in other words, 'God's will' for him. The 'Body of Christ' is not a 'physical' thing that can be seen or described. My perception on it is that the 'Body' is all those brought together by the 'Spirit' who 'work' solely for one purpose, 'God's'. The 'kingdom' is 'in our midst' and we must realize that. The 'body' isn't divided, but has many parts. The 'Body' has nothing to do with religion or 'beliefs' but our hearts. We don't 'choose' to be a part of this 'Body' we either are or we aren't plain and simple. This is where it gets hard to explain but another way of saying it is the 'kingdom of God' is not something that can be 'grasped'. We cannot be a part of this 'body' if our 'self' is still 'alive'. We cannot put 'limitations' or 'exclusions' on this 'Body' as it is not 'ours' to make that choice. The 'Body of Christ' began with 'God' and Christ is it's 'head'. Some random thoughts anyways.

Hi seelandlisten , the Greek word for separated can be checked in Vine's , and the Perfect Tense can also be checked on the internet and you will need to gives verses to explain your premise .

Hi seekandlisten , I am not a Greek scholar , but I have presented this verse to other forums and NO one has proven it wrong . In Greek grammar it is the perfect tense , passive voice , indicatine mood and a participle and translated , " having been called " .

Well, I don't need the 'letter of law' so to speak broken down, I believe in the living 'Word' so no offense but you're going to have to give me something more to go on than checking out 1 verse according to 'Vine's'. My premise can be found in the bible and I try to avoid verse picking as I can pretty much come up with all sorts of bizarre 'doctrines' by doing that so my premise is simply what I get from the bible, take it or leave it. My beliefs are simply that, my beliefs. My perception is different than yours especially on point #4 that is all, you are free to believe whatever you want. If you would wish to discuss a certain point I would be more than happy to.

cheers

 

[dan p]

Can you explain and elaborate the theological principles behind your assertion for #4? Also would you mind telling me what your understanding of the meaning of Ephesians 4:15-16 is: "But speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love."

That would help clarify. Thanks!

~Josh

Hi cybershark5886 , and I have already presented another proof in 1 Tim 1:15-16 that Paul was the First one in the Body of Christ .

Question for you , where do you believe , the Body of Christ began ????

Was Paul the ONLY ONE to use that Phrase , '" Body of Christ " ??????

I will do a separate post on Eph 4:15-16 .

 

[cyberjosh]

I found your other thread concerning this (here). See my comments there. Also try not to get too hooked on "catch phrases". Many other equivalent ideas can be expressed for the idea of being united in Christ as one body, which includes the Church itself, and the Baptism of the Spirit.

 

[Drew]

I suspect that the confusion arises in virtue of an incorrect, although widely held, view of what "the gospel" is. Most Christians equate "the gospel" with the news that people can be saved by faith in Christ. Well, it is indeed "good news" that we can be saved by faith, but it is not what Paul means when he uses the term "gospel".

As he clearly says in verses 2 through 4, "the gospel" is essentially the message that Jesus is the Davidic Messiah who has been constituted as Lord of the world in virtue of His being raised from the dead.

This, for Paul is the gospel - news about who Jesus is, not news about the implications for us vis a vis "being saved". "Salvation by faith" is a consequence of "the gospel", but it is not "the gospel" itself (at least for Paul).

 

[Sinthesis]

Hi to all , and Rom 1:1 , has a lot to say , that most christians never notice !!!

#3 , The Past Action here is when Paul is saved . And that means Paul can NOT go back an be a Pharisee , because the word APHORIZO , means that Paul is NOW LIMITED to only preach the Gospel of God and can never preach the Gospel of the Kingdom or what the 12 Apostles preached .

Could you please define:

• the Gospel of God
  vs.
  the Gospel of the Kingdom

Thanks

 

[dan p]

Hi to all , and Rom 1:1 , has a lot to say , that most christians never notice !!!

#3 , The Past Action here is when Paul is saved . And that means Paul can NOT go back an be a Pharisee , because the word APHORIZO , means that Paul is NOW LIMITED to only preach the Gospel of God and can never preach the Gospel of the Kingdom or what the 12 Apostles preached .

Could you please define:

• the Gospel of God
  vs.
  the Gospel of the Kingdom

Thanks

Hi to you , The Gospel of the Kingdom is seen in Matt 4:23 ; Matt 9:35 and in Matt 24:14 and please notice that the CONTEXT is Jewish .

The Gospel of God is found in Rom 1:1 , Gal 1:11-12 ; and 1 Tim 1:11 are just a few for Paul , the Apostle of Grace .

 

[cyberjosh]

Hi to you , The Gospel of the Kingdom is seen in Matt 4:23 ; Matt 9:35 and in Matt 24:14 and please notice that the CONTEXT is Jewish .

The Gospel of God is found in Rom 1:1 , Gal 1:11-12 ; and 1 Tim 1:11 are just a few for Paul , the Apostle of Grace .

Are you suggesting that Jesus and Paul preached different gospels? If so does this mean that Paul cursed Christ in Galatians 1:9 when he said, "As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed"? This also begs the question, which Gospel did Paul receive? He was a Jew and he most certainly was met by Jesus in person on the road to Damascus and taught the Gospel by Christ while in Arabia. Paul was Apostle not only to the Gentiles but also the Jews (cf. "he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel" Acts 9:15), and he preached the Gospel equally, the same and only gospel (Galatians 1:9; Ephesians 2:13-18) to all, both Jew and Greek. How would you answer these questions and points?

~Josh

 

[Sinthesis]

[quote="dan p":2b4z8rd7]Hi to all , and Rom 1:1 , has a lot to say , that most christians never notice !!!

#3 , The Past Action here is when Paul is saved . And that means Paul can NOT go back an be a Pharisee , because the word APHORIZO , means that Paul is NOW LIMITED to only preach the Gospel of God and can never preach the Gospel of the Kingdom or what the 12 Apostles preached .

Could you please define:

• the Gospel of God
  vs.
  the Gospel of the Kingdom

Thanks

Hi to you , The Gospel of the Kingdom is seen in Matt 4:23 ; Matt 9:35 and in Matt 24:14 and please notice that the CONTEXT is Jewish .

The Gospel of God is found in Rom 1:1 , Gal 1:11-12 ; and 1 Tim 1:11 are just a few for Paul , the Apostle of Grace .[/quote:2b4z8rd7]
:help Perhaps I'm just slow. Could you please explain any differences in these two gospels?

• Mat 4:23 ¶ And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
  
  Mat 9:35 ¶ And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
  
  Mat 24:14 - And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

VS.

• Rom 1:1 ¶ Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
  
  Gal 1:11-12 ¶ But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
  
  1Ti 1:11 - According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

 

[dan p]

Hi Sinthesis , and you are NOT slow, because you have not HEARD about Pauline Dispensational truth and that is why !!!

1 ) The Matthew passages are all Jewish and the Matt 24:3 , 13 , 29 are telling the Jews of the Tribulation , and compare v29 with Acts 2:16 20 and Joel 2 .

2) The Gal 1:11-12 are what Paul recieved by Revelation from the Lord and will have to do a separate post on Gal 1:8-9 and its meaning .