TRUTH over TRADITION
Member
Where are the holes in preterism? I feel they miss the 'fact' that the parousia was indeed real and physical and they also often do not see the resurrection as actual physical event(S).
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The Pros & Cons of Preterism
- Thread starter TRUTH over TRADITION
- Start date
They share a presumption with futerist, that the fullfillment of Dan 70 weeks means a fullfillment of the lords return. The futerist presume dan 70 weeks are incomplete despit the evidence, because there is no evidence of a physical return of christ. The preterist except the evidence of the completion of dan 70 weeks, then presume the return is complete, without evidence, and spiritualize what they cant explain.
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Vic C.
Member
Correct. Some call it Orthodox, some call it historical and some will call it partial. All pretty much the same and all are looking at some prophecy as still in the future and/or having multiple "levels" of fulfillment (as in dual or near/far prophecy).
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Alabaster
Guest
I have a question for preterists,I recognize that much of what Jesus said would occur did occur in the first century and also Rev tells us that all those things must happen shortly,I recognize that the beast could pretty well fit the roman empire and babylon the city of Rome and Nero the antichrist beast. On the other hand what possible evidence could there be that Jesus returned and gathered the believers? If that had occurred we would not be here in this world of war and evil. I do see that much of what Jesus said would occur in the first century did in fact occur in the first century,but not all of it for sure.
I am a partial preterist and we agree on almost everything alabaster, anyone who does not accept rev as entirely futerist, would be in some way partial preterist.
Vic C.
Member
Yes, as Lehigh mentioned, preterism isn't a specific teaching of any denomination.
... and me personally, I prefer my church to NOT teach any one specific End Times position. If my congregation decided to take a doctrinal stance on any one position, I'm outta there.
None of it is carved in stone. None!
jasoncran
Member
its hard not to read and form some opinion on revalation on way or another. i do see your point and trust me . i may be the only mid tribber in my churchYes, as Lehigh mentioned, preterism isn't a specific teaching of any denomination.
... and me personally, I prefer my church to NOT teach any one specific End Times position. If my congregation decided to take a doctrinal stance on any one position, I'm outta there.
None of it is carved in stone. None!
Sinthesis
Member
There are many Pros to partial preterism. The primary Con would be that it can be taken too far. That and the ridicule. The endless ridicule from otherwise good Christians. Oh, and the slander; being called a liar by those not confident enough in their faith to consider the points of view of other Christians.
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Alabaster
Guest
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Hitch
Guest
However all Christians believe in the future bodily return of Christ and any church that would refuse to put that in her SOF should be laughed to scorn, as they say.Yes, as Lehigh mentioned, preterism isn't a specific teaching of any denomination.
... and me personally, I prefer my church to NOT teach any one specific End Times position. If my congregation decided to take a doctrinal stance on any one position, I'm outta there.
None of it is carved in stone. None!
L
Lehigh3
Guest
That is not entirely true. That would be based on the CREEDS & would be detrimental to Christianity.
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Elijah674
Guest
Re: The Pros & Cons of Preterism
However all Christians believe in the future bodily return of Christ and any church that would refuse to put that in her SOF should be laughed to scorn, as they say.
Lehigh3
That is not entirely true. That would be based on the CREEDS & would be detrimental to Christianity
God's Word here:
Daniel 2:43-45
Unless satan can vaporize this Image in past 'proven' prophesy as 'fake' and verse 44-45 to not be very soon visabily Established!
+ of course a little more 'light' in Dan. 7:17-22 'until the Acient of days CAME and the time [came that the saints POSSESSED THE KINDGOM.]Whatever?
--Elijah
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Lehigh3
Guest
Two points,two lies, one post.
That's funny
, I just checked out "the Resurrection message" on a TV station. All was good until I heard the end of it- & I don't call him a "liar" I say he was actually preaching false hope & misplaced hope.I took a couple of notes to examine, being the Berean that I am. He spoke about Christ's resurrected body & how THAT was suitable for His 40 days on earth. Ok so far. Then he spoke about Ephesians 1:11-14, ok we were predestined, even though John the apostle spoke of disciples that had turned away from the faith- but John said they really weren't "of us" to begin with- but that didn't bother me- the preacher was still on message.
Then he continued with Eph.1:13- good. We were sealed with the Holy Spirit when we received Jesus as Lord & Savior, "we were sealed with a promise of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession..." ok, this is an all times statement by me- but he used it only in a futuristic sense.
Then he went to Romans 8:18-23- regarding the creation groaning - he left out Paul's words of "until now" I noticed..... ok, he also continued & said "we" (as if meaning we today) who have the firstfruits of the spirit. Stop right there for that one. We definitely are not the ones to receive the firstfruits of the Spirit. James makes that clearer- & much more evidence in scripture refutes actually, that statement.
But the part that cannot be denied is where he said Jesus would come back & this earth will be a glorious new creation.
That causes misplaced hope, imho. The same Paul also said in 2Cor.5:17 (the whole chapter actually) that, "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold; all things have become new. (NKJV)
So to me, we have the whole erroneous notion that Christ will come & this world as we know it will become like the garden of Eden literally.
Why couldn't he just have said that we will all individually be welcomed by Jesus in heaven with a glorious body that God will give us, who are promised such an inheritance?
And for hope sake, simply say what Paul said in 1Cor.2:9? NKJV,
9 But as it is written:
“ Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.â€[a]
Do I call that preacher a "liar?" [And I know of plenty Bible scholars with the title "DR." before their names too] No. I wouldn't even call the tv station or write to him my thoughts if they were so stated.
But it is a point worth pondering......& not for me!
"And the Spirit and the Bride say come!" (Rev.22:17)
Stormcrow
Member
Well, I for one am not prepared to say everything has been fulfilled, because I don't know everything the Bible has to say about...er...everything.
On the other hand, I cannot go back to believing many things about traditional evangelical eschatology, because I am convinced that most (if not all) of that view is based on ignorance and - in some cases - the willful misinterpretation of God's Word.
What I know, I know is true, based on Bible study and both secular and church history.
What I don't know, I will withhold judgment on until I can fully research both sides of the issue.
For me, the people that hurt their cases (on both sides) the most are the ones who can ONLY see the Bible through "indoctrinated eyes."
As for me, I have tried with all my might to put doctrine aside and see the Bible the way those who first received it saw it.
That's why I proclaim neither to be a preterist nor a futurist, and disavow any attempts at labeling me. Labels are the lazy man's way of saying I don't have to hear or read what you say, because I can know everything about you from a single word.
To me, that's the greatest combination of ignorance and arrogance there is.
For what it's worth.
On the other hand, I cannot go back to believing many things about traditional evangelical eschatology, because I am convinced that most (if not all) of that view is based on ignorance and - in some cases - the willful misinterpretation of God's Word.
What I know, I know is true, based on Bible study and both secular and church history.
What I don't know, I will withhold judgment on until I can fully research both sides of the issue.
For me, the people that hurt their cases (on both sides) the most are the ones who can ONLY see the Bible through "indoctrinated eyes."
As for me, I have tried with all my might to put doctrine aside and see the Bible the way those who first received it saw it.
That's why I proclaim neither to be a preterist nor a futurist, and disavow any attempts at labeling me. Labels are the lazy man's way of saying I don't have to hear or read what you say, because I can know everything about you from a single word.
To me, that's the greatest combination of ignorance and arrogance there is.
For what it's worth.
jasoncran
Member
while i understand your position on full preterism. i am a mid tribber should i just accept my pastors postion on isreal? on the minor err on the intensity of quakes increasing that he states? or what about the errs on the actuall theory of evolution and or bbt that he states?
i know the differences of what is in the bible and how i see it and how he sees it. i dont correct him. but if he ask what i believe i state why. and can back it up.
pastors have taught me, and continue to do so, but that doesnt negate this verse "study to show thineself a workman worthy of praise" the pastor isnt to do the studying for me(though the teachers can teach) but i must learn for myself and that does include my own head in the bible and at bible study as well.(ouch for me)
i know the differences of what is in the bible and how i see it and how he sees it. i dont correct him. but if he ask what i believe i state why. and can back it up.
pastors have taught me, and continue to do so, but that doesnt negate this verse "study to show thineself a workman worthy of praise" the pastor isnt to do the studying for me(though the teachers can teach) but i must learn for myself and that does include my own head in the bible and at bible study as well.(ouch for me)
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Lehigh3
Guest
As a preterist I am fulfilled, & happy to know that I am blessed for understanding His end-time salvation promise & prophecy!
Jesus was not a false prophet, for one. He said to His 1st century apostles & disciples in that generation that He was coming "soon." According to Deut.18:22, God said if a prophet's events didn't manifest in the time frame spoken by that prophet, then the Lord did not send such a prophet.
Rev.22:20,
20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
For the 3rd time in about 14 verses, Jesus assured the 1st century church that he was soon to appear "a second time, not for sin, but for salvation" (Hebrews 9:28) The certainty of His imminent return is expressed by the term "surely" & "amen." The nearness of his advent by the term "quickly."
If the symbols that portray the events comprising Jesus' return are elusive or escape the student , the language of its certainty & nearness assuredly cannot be misunderstood.
The voice of the writers of the N.T. was unanimous in expressing the hope & promise that Christ would return within that generation. Jesus himself had so promised. He renews that promise again in the verse above. The church responds saying, "Even so, Come Lord Jesus." (maranatha).
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Also another positive is the statement of belief of almost all Preterists:
1. The Bible consisting of the Old and New Testaments is the Word of God.
2. God is a trinity, consisting of God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit.
3. Jesus is God and the only mediator between God and man.
4. Salvation is through faith in Christ and His atoning work.
5. God is absolutely sovereign over all events including salvation.
6. The Earth and universe are not merely 6,000-10,000 years old, but are much older. The Earth is probably about 4.5 billion years old and the universe is about 20 billion years old. (contra Young Earth Creationism).
7. Noah's flood was local, not global.
8. All Bible prophecies have been fulfilled.
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Have a blessed day!
Jesus was not a false prophet, for one. He said to His 1st century apostles & disciples in that generation that He was coming "soon." According to Deut.18:22, God said if a prophet's events didn't manifest in the time frame spoken by that prophet, then the Lord did not send such a prophet.
Rev.22:20,
20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
For the 3rd time in about 14 verses, Jesus assured the 1st century church that he was soon to appear "a second time, not for sin, but for salvation" (Hebrews 9:28) The certainty of His imminent return is expressed by the term "surely" & "amen." The nearness of his advent by the term "quickly."
If the symbols that portray the events comprising Jesus' return are elusive or escape the student , the language of its certainty & nearness assuredly cannot be misunderstood.
The voice of the writers of the N.T. was unanimous in expressing the hope & promise that Christ would return within that generation. Jesus himself had so promised. He renews that promise again in the verse above. The church responds saying, "Even so, Come Lord Jesus." (maranatha).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also another positive is the statement of belief of almost all Preterists:
1. The Bible consisting of the Old and New Testaments is the Word of God.
2. God is a trinity, consisting of God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit.
3. Jesus is God and the only mediator between God and man.
4. Salvation is through faith in Christ and His atoning work.
5. God is absolutely sovereign over all events including salvation.
6. The Earth and universe are not merely 6,000-10,000 years old, but are much older. The Earth is probably about 4.5 billion years old and the universe is about 20 billion years old. (contra Young Earth Creationism).
7. Noah's flood was local, not global.
8. All Bible prophecies have been fulfilled.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have a blessed day!