The Rapture will happen in the middle of the Tribulation

[Randy]

We see Messiah return to Mt Zion in Revelation 14:1 with His Holy Ones - Job 5:1, Ps. 89:5 & 7, Dan. 4:13 & 8:13, Matt. 24:31, & 25:31 and Jude 14”

And we see the destruction of the antichrist in Revelation 13

All of this before the rapture of Revelation 14:14-16

Again your preconceived sequence of events is in question.
The man of lawlessness is destroyed by a coming of Jesus. I would state the 2nd coming and its post trib and in fact ends all tribulation. Rev 16:15. 2 Thess 2:8

The harvest of all is the last day. Matt 24
Immediately after the distress of those days

“ ‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

The dead in Christ are raised first then all those in Christ are caught up as in a total gathering of all the elect at that one time.

1thess 4
According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

 

[Ezekiel]

Those who hold the pre-tribulation rapture position, usually site 1 Thessalonians 5:9 "For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ" But this verse cannot possibly refer to Christians suffering here on earth, because Christians have been persecuted since the first days of the church. We find the timing of the Rapture in Revelation 14:14-16 where the Angel harvests the earth - right in the middle of the tribulation, and just before the time of Jacob's Trouble. This timing is affirmed by two passages where we see saints pulled out of the Tribulation in Revelation 7:13-15 and Revelation 20:4.

We are giving the church faults hope by suggesting we will not have to endure the Tribulation. We need to prepare for these troubled times.

On the December 25 800 AD, Charlemagne started the clock running for the two witnesses. Revelation 11, they preach for 1230 days that is years rather. Brings us to the year 2030 AD death of the two nations, olive trees. They are dead in the streets for 3.5 days rather years. 3.5 years brings us to 2033 May 25. Daniel 12 v2 and Daniel 12 v 11,12,13. 45 days later our Father Finishes earth and it starts the Sabbath. On July 9 2033 is the end of the world and as we watch today as new worlds are here and being built in the Heavens. Between May 25 2033 and 45 days after that date the saints go to heaven. After Armageddon. These are the dates but Christ can come sooner.

 

[JT4444]

On the December 25 800 AD, Charlemagne started the clock running for the two witnesses. Revelation 11, they preach for 1230 days that is years rather. Brings us to the year 2030 AD death of the two nations, olive trees. They are dead in the streets for 3.5 days rather years. 3.5 years brings us to 2033 May 25. Daniel 12 v2 and Daniel 12 v 11,12,13. 45 days later our Father Finishes earth and it starts the Sabbath. On July 9 2033 is the end of the world and as we watch today as new worlds are here and being built in the Heavens. Between May 25 2033 and 45 days after that date the saints go to heaven. After Armageddon. These are the dates but Christ can come sooner.

Why do you think the 1,230 days are really 1,230 years? If Scripture meant years, why not just say years?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Paul was not dead the day that he said "We who are alive"
What language would you use to denote an event that you believe could happen at any moment ?

Mar 13:35
Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

Jesus said to watch so you would know when he comes.It them who don't watch who don't know when he comes.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Jesus said to watch so you would know when he comes.It them who don't watch who don't know when he comes.

What are you watching for that will tell you whether He is coming at midnight, morning, or evening ?

Mar 13:35
Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

Mat 24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

What are you watching for that will tell you whether He is coming at midnight, morning, or evening ?

Mar 13:35
Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

The king of the north giving Israel an army and the daily sacrifice being abolished.
That will give me the date I'm looking for.

 

[hawkman]

Aren't you the one who removed one of my posts for being critical of a poster? Kind of hypocritical don't you think?

Brother Paul River , being a moderator and a poster come with it's own set of conflicts and I will try my best to be even handed with what I do here .

The link reddogs posted is the work of a ninth grade high school student and as such I said ,
"Pretty good write up for a ninth grader !" I totally meant what I said ! The author did misspell some words but he presented his topic pretty well . I remember when I was a ninth grader .
Here is the link again if you did not read it .

7 year tribulation or not?​

Aren't you the guy who didn't even know that Melchizedek was a New Testament doctrine

Well I probably did know at one time Melchisedec is mentioned in the NT but my memory is not as good as I would like for it to be . One thing that threw me off was the spelling change from Melchizedek in the Old Testament and Melchisedec in the New Testament , at least that is the way it is in the KJV .

What is the "Melchizedek Doctrine " you speak of ? Link ?

the guy who cannot discern that there are two separate harvests in Revelation 14?

I understand that you see two harvests and I understand why you do but that does not mean I am in total agreement with you that there are two harvests .

 

[hawkman]

A note from the new moderator of this forum . My main duty is to keep the peace between fellow posters and if you feel I have overstepped my duties please use the system we have in place to discuss that . Thank you .

Talk With The Staff / Report a site issue Post thread Need a place to talk privately with the staff about an issue or concern or just need to report a random bug on the site?

 

[Ezekiel]

Why do you think the 1,230 days are really 1,230 years? If Scripture meant years, why not just say years?

Because it's nation's two of them. And that changes that time line. The two nations are England and United States. England the elder Manasseh and Ephraim the younger. They both were England but Ephraim went off and made up USA. With all the tribes of Israel and made up with many other nations also even some of the tribe of Judah are there.

 

[JT4444]

Because it's nation's two of them. And that changes that time line. The two nations are England and United States. England the elder Manasseh and Ephraim the younger. They both were England but Ephraim went off and made up USA. With all the tribes of Israel and made up with many other nations also even some of the tribe of Judah are there.

These are just assumptions. There is nothing definitive in Scripture that supports that.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Because it's nation's two of them. And that changes that time line. The two nations are England and United States. England the elder Manasseh and Ephraim the younger. They both were England but Ephraim went off and made up USA. With all the tribes of Israel and made up with many other nations also even some of the tribe of Judah are there.

The two witnesses are killed and their dead bodies will be taking up space in Jerusalem for 3.5 days.
I hardly believe the United states and Britain could fit in Jerusalem .

PS
It's 1260 days
Not 1230 days the two witnesses occupy Jerusalem killing and tormenting people.

 

[Ezekiel]

The two witnesses are killed and their dead bodies will be taking up space in Jerusalem for 3.5 days.
I hardly believe the United states and Britain could fit in Jerusalem .

PS
It's 1260 days
Not 1230 days the two witnesses occupy Jerusalem killing and tormenting people.

Two events that nation stands back on there feet. Second event God calls the saints home. the two events are close as of timing. My friend not into space. The confusion is the Jesus is dealing with two worlds not just earth. Everyone thinks it's in the middle east, I'm telling you, When we flea as Jesus says it will take place all over the world. It will be judgement and God will come down very hard on sinners. What exactly does it say spirit so it could be any where.

 

[Ezekiel]

Two events that nation stands back on there feet. Second event God calls the saints home. the two events are close as of timing. My friend not into space. The confusion is the Jesus is dealing with two worlds not just earth. Everyone thinks it's in the middle east, I'm telling you, When we flea as Jesus says it will take place all over the world. It will be judgement and God will come down very hard on sinners. What exactly does it say spirit so it could be any where.

Sorry spiritually intern means any place the has that type of spirit.

 

[Ezekiel]

Sorry spiritually intern means any place the has that type of spirit.

Again If Jesus came to United States He will be murdered again and you know this. Its very bad these days.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Two events that nation stands back on there feet. Second event God calls the saints home. the two events are close as of timing. My friend not into space. The confusion is the Jesus is dealing with two worlds not just earth. Everyone thinks it's in the middle east, I'm telling you, When we flea as Jesus says it will take place all over the world. It will be judgement and God will come down very hard on sinners. What exactly does it say spirit so it could be any where.

Jesus says it does not take place all over the world.
Jesus actually said ,let them in judea flee.

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


The cloud that is ascending up into heaven which the two witnesses are in ,is rising from Jerusalem.Not China.Not Canada,Not Brazil.
And the occupants of judea,will flee to the mountains when they see that cloud rising from Jerusalem.

 

[Ezekiel]

Just so you understand there are two Raptures. Study Babylon Revelation 18 that planet is destroyed, that happens between the fifth and fourth seals, trumpet, and vial, that happens on earth. Then Revelation 19 shows the saints from that went to heaven, from that planet.

On earth it happens this way

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

 

[Ezekiel]

Jesus says it does not take place all over the world.
Jesus actually said ,let them in judea flee.

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


The cloud that is ascending up into heaven which the two witnesses are in ,is rising from Jerusalem.Not China.Not Canada,Not Brazil.
And the occupants of judea,will flee to the mountains when they see that cloud rising from Jerusalem.

Jesus says pray that you may escape all these things. I tell you get out of the City's when it happens because evil will destroy evil and Satan and his army's will kill anything and everything. The whole world. It's not just them in Judea are saved that flea.

 

[Consecrated Life]

The king of the north giving Israel an army and the daily sacrifice being abolished.
That will give me the date I'm looking for.

So when you see :

" The king of the north giving Israel an army and the daily sacrifice being abolished." (Shilohsfoal)

What do you plan to do then ?

 

[JT4444]

Jesus says it does not take place all over the world.
Jesus actually said ,let them in judea flee.

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


The cloud that is ascending up into heaven which the two witnesses are in ,is rising from Jerusalem.Not China.Not Canada,Not Brazil.
And the occupants of judea,will flee to the mountains when they see that cloud rising from Jerusalem.

The fact that Judea is mentioned doesn't mean it is limited to Judea. You're making an assumption.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Jesus says pray that you may escape all these things. I tell you get out of the City's when it happens because evil will destroy evil and Satan and his army's will kill anything and everything. The whole world. It's not just them in Judea are saved that flea.

If it's something you need to pray to escape,then it's not a physical thing.When you pray ,it doesn't mean you are leaving a city.