The word rapture is not directly in the bible. But you are just splitting hairs.
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
the rapture
- Thread starter th1b.taylor
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The word rapture is not directly in the bible. But you are just splitting hairs.
Prince
Member
I wonder why..
No I am not spitting hairs....
You do believe the rapture takes place before the antichrist and his beast system are setup correct?
Prince
Member
1Thes 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (KJV)
Sounds good, doesn't it? I will even admit that the above verse, sitting here on the page all naked and alone sure sounds like a Rapture to me. But I don't have the luxury of looking through the wrong end of a telescope. I, as all serious Bible students are exhorted to do as the Berean's did: "...and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." {Acts 17:11}, and, "...comparing spiritual things with spiritual." {1 Cor 2:13}. 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (KJV)
Below, we shall do what the Rapture teachers cannot possibly be doing, we will look at this verse in the context that the Holy Spirit put it in. We will back-up and pick it up a couple of verses before this one and to set the subject and the object of the verse clearly in our minds, so as to be assured that we are interpreting it in the proper context.
1Thes 4:13-18
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant#1, brethren,concerning them which are asleep#2, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope#3.
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant#1, brethren,concerning them which are asleep#2, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope#3.
Explanation of above: #1 I would not have you to be ignorant: = Apostle Paul is telling us that he wishes to inform us of something so that we are not without understanding in the matter. #2 concerning them which are asleep: = Paul is now telling us what it is that he wishes to understand; He wants us to know what happens to those who 'sleep' (die). #3 that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope: = Paul is saying that the reason that he wants to inform us of what happens when people die is so that we do not feel sad like those who have no hope of a resurrection into everlasting life (the heathen, who believe not upon Christ, having no hope of a resurrection into eternal life). Paul does not want us Christians to be like the heathen unbelievers. The subject of these verses is: "Where are the dead?" Nothing more, nothing less.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again#1, even so them also which sleep in Jesus#2 will God bring with him#3.
Explanation of above: #1 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again: = Paul is saying that we Christians believe that Jesus rose from the dead, that is what makes us Christians. #2even so them also which sleep in Jesus: = In like manner as Jesus died and resurrected, so also will those who died in Christ (as Christians) resurrect from the dead into an eternal life. #3 God bring with him: = God will bring these resurrected Christians with Him. God can 'bring them with Him' because they are already with Him.
You cannot 'bring' someone with you unless they are with you prior to the 'bringing.' At the moment of death, our spiritual body and soul return to God and our flesh body decomposes back to the dust whence it came (i.e., carbon, minerals...).
There is a greater truth in this verse that has been twisted by the Rapture teachers.
They tell us that this is saying "the dead will be Raptured (along with the living 'saints' during the Rapture)." This is incorrect on many fronts. For one, it says "which sleep in Jesus" and then that "God bring with him". Jesus and God are two different words. One is the Son of God on the earth and one is Almighty God in Heaven Himself. Observe below:
You cannot 'bring' someone with you unless they are with you prior to the 'bringing.' At the moment of death, our spiritual body and soul return to God and our flesh body decomposes back to the dust whence it came (i.e., carbon, minerals...).
There is a greater truth in this verse that has been twisted by the Rapture teachers.
They tell us that this is saying "the dead will be Raptured (along with the living 'saints' during the Rapture)." This is incorrect on many fronts. For one, it says "which sleep in Jesus" and then that "God bring with him". Jesus and God are two different words. One is the Son of God on the earth and one is Almighty God in Heaven Himself. Observe below:
Jesus: Greek word #2424 Iesous (ee-ay-sooce'); of Hebrew origin [3091]; Jesus (i.e. Jehoshua), the name of our Lord and two (three) other Israelites. [this is Jesus Christ the Son of God].
God: Greek word #2316 theos (theh'-os); of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with 3588) the definite article [which IS present in the Greek manuscripts here!] the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very. [This is Almighty God the Father].
Now according to their Rapture theory, it is Jesus the Son of God who comes to Rapture people away, therefore the phrase from the above Scripture "God bring with him" can make no sense regarding their Rapture theory.God: Greek word #2316 theos (theh'-os); of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with 3588) the definite article [which IS present in the Greek manuscripts here!] the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very. [This is Almighty God the Father].
That is simply nonsense storm, Jesus was asked two questions at the start of Math 24, And he answered them both in the body of Math 24. When would be the destruction of the temple and great buildings as he described ( fullfilled in 70 ad) and when would be the end. (not yet completed) Math 24v1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Clear as day Two Questions? Mark 13v1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, 4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled? Again two Questions. Luke21v5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, 6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass? luke 21v22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. 25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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Prince
Member
17 Then#1 we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them#2 in the clouds#3, to meet the Lord in the air#4:
Observe below:
Explanation of above: #1Then: = When?? - At the seventh trump! {Rev 11:15} - at the Second Advent of Jesus Christ. #2 with them: = Who?? - Those who are already in their spirit bodies - Those who died in the flesh from the beginning of time, who went instantly went back to the Father at the time of their individual deaths. So far so good, now the interpretation of the next two words ('clouds' and 'air') are the 'foundation' [built on sand] of their Rapture doctrines. A whole doctrine built up around two words taken out of context! #3 clouds: = The Rapturist believes this 'clouds' to be like 'rain clouds.' Language lexicons are of little help with this word as it ultimately has two different meanings:
Apostle Paul wrote our Scripture here in 1st Thessalonians, he also wrote the book of Hebrews. It is in the book of Hebrews that Paul used the word "cloud #3509." Paul was a Hebrew from the Tribe of Benjamin, but he also spoke Greek and was a naturalized Roman citizen. However, the Greek he spoke was colloquial Greek (or 'street Greek' as Pastor Arnold (A fine Christian Minister) of the (another Ministry on TV) terms it). This word 'clouds', as it is used here by Paul is a figure of speech, meaning a large group, used also by Paul in {Heb12:1},supplied below for your comparison:
Also, when Jesus Christ returns at his second Advent he will be accompanied by an innumerable host of Angels {Rev 19:11-16}. Below, that innumerable host of Angels is referred to as 'clouds.' Jesus isn't coming on or in water clouds, He is coming with clouds of Angels, so many that they will cloud the sky and can not be counted for their multitude:
Ok, now our last word in this Scripture: #4 air: = I don't even have to tell you how the Rapturist interprets this word. But the word doesn't mean 'air' like in the sky (for you even have 'air' in your basement). But rather it is the spirit of life air, the pneuma, as in a pneumatic tire (whence we get the word pneumatic). It is the animation of the body, the life, the spirit. In the Hebrew of the Old Testament this word finds it's equivalent in 'neshamah,' which is what God blew into Adam's nostrils and he became a living being. The word means "the breath of life." Below we shall provide definitions in both Greek and Hebrew of this "breath of life" or "spirit":clouds: Greek word #3507 nephele (nef-el'-ay); from #3509; properly, cloudiness, i.e. (concretely) a cloud.
Cloud: #3509 nephos- a cloud, a large dense multitude, a throng; a).used to denote a great shapeless collection of vapor obscuring the heavens as opposed to a particular and definite masses of vapor with some form or shape; b). a cloud in the sky
Above we see that the word can mean either a 'cloud in the sky' or a dense multitude or throng (of people). As I said, the Lexicons are not specific enough here for us to 'hang our hat on,' so to speak. However, there is another resource available to us to secure the proper meaning of the word 'cloud' as it is used here, and that is Scripture itself. We shall let the Bible translate itself. The word "Cloud" #3509 'nephos' whence comes our word 'clouds' is used in only one place in the entire Bible, this will remove any ambiguity with the word usage.Cloud: #3509 nephos- a cloud, a large dense multitude, a throng; a).used to denote a great shapeless collection of vapor obscuring the heavens as opposed to a particular and definite masses of vapor with some form or shape; b). a cloud in the sky
Apostle Paul wrote our Scripture here in 1st Thessalonians, he also wrote the book of Hebrews. It is in the book of Hebrews that Paul used the word "cloud #3509." Paul was a Hebrew from the Tribe of Benjamin, but he also spoke Greek and was a naturalized Roman citizen. However, the Greek he spoke was colloquial Greek (or 'street Greek' as Pastor Arnold (A fine Christian Minister) of the (another Ministry on TV) terms it). This word 'clouds', as it is used here by Paul is a figure of speech, meaning a large group, used also by Paul in {Heb12:1},supplied below for your comparison:
Heb 12:1(Paul's use of the word 'cloud' as a figure of speech)
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us (KJV)
Like I said, Paul was using a colloquialism (figure of speech). Paul no more meant that those would meet Jesus in a 'rain cloud' than he meant that the people above would stage a foot-race on a 'rain-cloud.' The use of the word 'cloud' or 'clouds' in these two Scriptures means a crowd, a great multitude, a vast collection, or dense for multitude of people, as in a "cloud of locusts," or, a "cloud of mosquitoes."1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us (KJV)
Also, when Jesus Christ returns at his second Advent he will be accompanied by an innumerable host of Angels {Rev 19:11-16}. Below, that innumerable host of Angels is referred to as 'clouds.' Jesus isn't coming on or in water clouds, He is coming with clouds of Angels, so many that they will cloud the sky and can not be counted for their multitude:
Rev 1:7
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (KJV)
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (KJV)
Air: Greek word #109 aer (ah-ayr'); from aemi (to breathe unconsciously, i.e. respire; by analogy, to blow); "air" (as naturally circumambient)
This is what God did into Adams nostrils, and through Christ we shall have the "breath of eternal life." The Hebrew counterpart for this word is:
breath of (life): Hebrew word #5397 neshamah (nesh-aw-maw'); from 5395; a puff, i.e. wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect. or (concretely) an animal: KJV-- blast, (that) breath (-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit. Neshamah - The breath, the spirit; a) the breath (of God) b) the breath (of man) c) every breathing thing d) the spirit (of man).
Gen 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (KJV)
After Paul wrote this (the first book of Thessalonians) he began receiving reports from Thessalonica that this Scripture was being misinterpreted. Paul hastily, in a scant couple months, wrote the second letter (book) to the Thessalonians, we know this as {2nd Thessalonians}. In the second chapter of that second letter, Paul cleared up all traces of confusion regarding the Scripture we just studied (regarding the Rapture misinterpretation). We shall briefly study that second explanatory letter (2nd Thessalonians). But first, why don't we re-read those five verses that caused all the confusion in Thessalonica then, and in the Rapture churches today, bearing in mind what we just covered. Then we shall let Paul clear away all remaining confusion in the matter.7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (KJV)
1st off your argument is nonsensacal, You started off by showing that there are two interpritations for cloud and then you went to the scripture that produced the second interpritation to begin with to support your position. A words use, is determined inside its context, not its definition. In context the word cloud means just that, a cloud as he is descending from the heavens. And when he ascended into the clouds what type of clouds were those, you know the reference in acts where it said he would return in like manner.Acts 1v9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
You are either intentionally throwing what was said off topic or mis-reading what was said.
What people call the rapture is actually a refrence to us being caught up in the air with the Lord, which is actually the mentioning of the resurrection at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, no there is no word "rapture" and it was never said there was, please re-read the post again, and if you want even more clarification, find my first post in this thread.
Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ
No i do not, as i said i am post trib. The tribulation that Jesus spoke of is the tribulation of the church, it started at the cross and will not end unill his one final return. To date almost 47 million christians have been martered for their faith. The AC as you call him / it is present and currently Islamic in nature. They're mahdi will be our man of sin / AC
Reasonable post so far, clouds probably mean heavenly clouds and angels and the saints also.
All we know of God is in His Word... The OT stories are pictures of Christ.. Marriage is shown to a picture of Christ and the Church.. Prophies over and over as to what was coming...... The Hebrews were told over and over What was to happen. Now the NT and we see The Christ we see Thee Lamb. We see His sacrifice. We are told the vail that seperated the Holy of Holies from us, has been torn apart no more seperation.
The Hebrew big wigs had the Romans kill Him at the same time He GAVE His life.. Jesus knows what is coming He know the Cross is there He knows the distruction of Jerusalem is coming He knows when. So He tells them This generation..... You bunch of bad guys You are going to get it... Then He cries for Jerusalem "How i wanted to protect you but you would not... How ever could the change of the way of Temple life the distruction of the Jerusalem not have been told. They were told so often before...
The Hebrew big wigs had the Romans kill Him at the same time He GAVE His life.. Jesus knows what is coming He know the Cross is there He knows the distruction of Jerusalem is coming He knows when. So He tells them This generation..... You bunch of bad guys You are going to get it... Then He cries for Jerusalem "How i wanted to protect you but you would not... How ever could the change of the way of Temple life the distruction of the Jerusalem not have been told. They were told so often before...
Stormcrow
Member
Well first of all, there is no such thing as "Pre-trib." As I demonstrated here and here, Pre-trib can't be scripturally supported.
Matthew 24:9 specifically states that the tribulation the disciples will face BECAUSE OF HIS NAME is a sign of a "great tribulation" that will befall Jerusalem (Matthew 24:21.)
Both tribulations are mentioned again in Revelation! The first 5 times tribulation (thlipsis) is used in Revelation, it's always in reference to Christ's church. The last time it's used is Revelation 7:14.
After seeing those martyred for Christ around the throne, the 7th trumpet sounds (yes: this is the last trumpet) and God's wrath is poured out on "the land." His wrath against "Mystery Babylon" (1st century Jerusalem) lasts 3.5 years. That is the "great tribulation" of Matthew 24:21: the outpouring of God's vengeance on Jerusalem for killing Messiah, His son.
Meanwhile, the tribulation of those who believe in Christ continues throughout the world, especially in Islamic and Communist countries: a tribulation that has been going on since the stoning of Stephen.
So, with the "great tribulation" of Jerusalem finished some 2,000 years ago, and the tribulation of believers still going on today, will someone please tell me where the idea of a pre-trib rapture fits into scripture? Or any rapture at all, for that fact.
Matthew 24:9 specifically states that the tribulation the disciples will face BECAUSE OF HIS NAME is a sign of a "great tribulation" that will befall Jerusalem (Matthew 24:21.)
Both tribulations are mentioned again in Revelation! The first 5 times tribulation (thlipsis) is used in Revelation, it's always in reference to Christ's church. The last time it's used is Revelation 7:14.
After seeing those martyred for Christ around the throne, the 7th trumpet sounds (yes: this is the last trumpet) and God's wrath is poured out on "the land." His wrath against "Mystery Babylon" (1st century Jerusalem) lasts 3.5 years. That is the "great tribulation" of Matthew 24:21: the outpouring of God's vengeance on Jerusalem for killing Messiah, His son.
Meanwhile, the tribulation of those who believe in Christ continues throughout the world, especially in Islamic and Communist countries: a tribulation that has been going on since the stoning of Stephen.
So, with the "great tribulation" of Jerusalem finished some 2,000 years ago, and the tribulation of believers still going on today, will someone please tell me where the idea of a pre-trib rapture fits into scripture? Or any rapture at all, for that fact.
Stormcrow
Member
One more thing:
The books of the New Testament have to be read in the context of the times in which they were written, and in the context to whom they were written. Pulling them out of the context of time, place, and audience is just as egregious an error as pulling a single verse out of literary context and building an entire doctrine out of it.
Doing so allows anyone to make the Word say anything they want, and it's precisely this kind of garbage that's going to disappoint an awful lot of people when they wake up May 22 and find out God didn't destroy the earth according to the "gospel of Camping" on the 21st.!
The books of the New Testament have to be read in the context of the times in which they were written, and in the context to whom they were written. Pulling them out of the context of time, place, and audience is just as egregious an error as pulling a single verse out of literary context and building an entire doctrine out of it.
Doing so allows anyone to make the Word say anything they want, and it's precisely this kind of garbage that's going to disappoint an awful lot of people when they wake up May 22 and find out God didn't destroy the earth according to the "gospel of Camping" on the 21st.!
You are saying something true but you are mixing it with something that is not exactly true. First of all,we should take into account the times and to whom the message was given,however we not dealing with just some written message to some folks in the past,we are dealing with God the Creator who is speaking through those people to speak to us also. For example,the message to Nicodemus that "you must be born again" was given to a Jewish man around 1900 years ago,however we understand by reading the entire bible that by establishing a requirement for Nicodemus that Jesus was establishing THE requirement for all men of all time. Jesus was most definitely telling the apostles to flee Jerusalem from the destruction that the Romans would cause in that generation,however we are dealing with God, and the return of Christ to gather the saints did not occur,so God had to mean MORE than just the first century destruction of Israel.
People in the OT wrote of things that were actually happening at that time,however the message was ALSO for others hundreds of years into the future. Jesus did describe the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the Jewish Temple,Jesus also described things that pertain to the actual end of the world as we know it and that would involve His actual return,and those things HAVE TO BE FUTURE because they have not yet happened. No rocket science involved here, if Jesus said He would return in the sky and gather the saints and Jesus has not returned in the sky to gather the saints, then it has to be in the future.
Stormcrow
Member
Were you there in 70 AD when the temple was destroyed? If not, then how do you know these things must be "in the future"?
Were these writers mistaken when they wrote:
{7}The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.
1 Peter 4:7 (NASB)
{1} God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
{2}in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
Hebrews 1:1-2 (NASB)
{1} The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,
Revelation 1:1 (NASB)
{3} Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.
Revelation 1:3 (NASB)
{6} And he said to me, "These words are faithful and true"; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place.
Revelation 22:6 (NASB)
{10} And he *said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.
Revelation 22:10 (NASB)
{7} "And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book."
Revelation 22:7 (NASB)
{12} "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
Revelation 22:12 (NASB)
{20} He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
Revelation 22:20 (NASB)
{18} Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.
1 John 2:18 (NASB)
{39} and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.
{40} "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
Matthew 13:39-40 (NASB)
The end of what age??? Paul explains!
{26} Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Hebrews 9:26 (NASB)
{8} You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.
James 5:8 (NASB)
Obviously, all the apostles were wrong for believing what Christ told them here:
{28} "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
Matthew 16:28 (NASB)
Now follow the logic here: either Christ and His apostles were correct about the coming "end of the age" in 70 AD, or you are.
If they are correct (and I'm putting money on it), then what people need to do is rethink what this means. In other words, you're going to have to change your understanding of what Christ meant. You're going to have to throw out a whole bunch of junk theology that's been built up over the years.
Start with the assumption that Paul, Peter, James and John were all correct in their understanding of the imminence of Christ's return, then you'll be able to grasp the rest.
Oh, and I'm well aware that there are lessons to be taken from Christ's words to those living at the time He was among them. That's not what this is about. I'm not the one taking salvation out of context. You, on the other hand, are taking Christ's and the apostle's end time statements out of context.
Prince
Member
O really - so your trying to tell me that when the bible says a tribulation that is 3 1/2 years
5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
The bible really means a tribulation of over 2,000 years since the cross.
2
Sad indeed...The antichrist will be satan he is not Catholic he is not Muslim he is not Arab, he is a supenatural fallen cherub that is attempting to be God.
O really - so your trying to tell me that when the bible says a tribulation that is 3 1/2 years
5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
The bible really means a tribulation of over 2,000 years since the cross.
Sad indeed...The antichrist will be satan he is not Catholic he is not Muslim he is not Arab, he is a supenatural fallen cherub that is attempting to be God.
Actually hes neither in nature, hes not Islamic and hes not Satan, he gets his power from Satan and does his work, but he's not Satan, nor is he any religion like Islam or Catholic ext, why? Because he will claim himself as God, cant have a religion if your the deity can you? No.
So he will take away the sacrifice, and will stand in the temple of God (which can anyone actually tell me where the temple of God is according to the Lord Jesus Christ and the Father? if you can answer that you would understand Daniel, especially you who veiw 70 A.D as fullfillment because you claim the kingdom has come in its entireity already and while your wrong you still have the closest knowledge of where the temple is according to God, and no im not talking of a stone building and you dont even know it)
He will stand in the temple of God as God and exalt himself above God.
(If you want to know what im talking about just ask.)
So your both wrong, hes not Satan and hes not Islamic or Catholic, is he muslim or caucasion or asian? no idea, doesnt really matter either, he will claim himself as God whichever race he is and the world (those not written in the Book of Life of the Lamb) will believe it.
Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Prince
Member
Incorrect - he is supernatural..
He will appear to christians as Jesus
He will appear to hindus as gishnu.
He will appear to Muslims as allah.
The whole world will worship him...
There is no point in going into this, we are are discussing this on another thread, and let me say sadly you have presented no evidence. Let the reader render
http://www.christianforums.net/f20/satan-antichrist-36046/
I have shown evidence and you know i have in previous threads, you ignore it so what am i to do?
Please refrain from throwing out false accusations.
Grace to you, peace from God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Prince
Member
Its really simple your just ignoring the truth to hold on to what you believe was revealed to you.
2 Thess 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Revelation 17:8
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:
san is called the son of perdition because he is going into perdition he is going to perish , it was foretold long ago.