Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

The Sovereignty of God...or not.

Donations

Total amount
$1,592.00
Goal
$5,080.00
:waving

Albert wrote:
If everything is eternally certain to God as the Calvinist view of foreknowledge holds, how could the Lord twice say that he "expected" one thing to occur, only to have something different occur? ("what more was there to do?") for something He knew from all eternity would never happen? If we take the passage at face value, does it not imply that the future of Israel, the "vineyard" was not certain until they settled it by choosing to yield "wild grapes"?

What more could have been done to My vineyard? In this parable, there was nothing left undone by the owner of the vineyard. He did all he could do. In the same way, God cannot be blamed at all for the wild grapes Israel brought forth. nor the wild sin in humankind. His Sovereign plan abides still, while human beings fail to abide in Him. God did all He could do, apart from making men robots, or acting apart from or against their wills. God will not force obedience... that is a satanic work. This is an unbalanced view of God's Sovereign knowledge which makes it dependent upon His Sovereign will being followed by humanity. :shame

(If God Who is The Eternal Being is NOT all-knowing, what then makes Him God?)


The fault (the sin) lies with mankind, never with God. Listen to a few "fathers of the faith"...

“It will be seen then . . . that every soul of man had the chance of becoming a fruitful vineyard; and if it became the reverse, it was due to no failure in either the wisdom or the grace of God.†(F.B. Meyer)

“O you that profess to be his people, what more could Christ have done for you? What more could the Holy Spirit have done? What richer promises, what wiser precepts, what kinder Providences, what more gracious patience?†(C.H. Spurgeon)

Certainly God EXPECTED this outcome. It is that this outcome is so outrageous~ when we consider the power and authority of God's work in His people. That humanity may be expected to do anything rather than what God has purposed is a failure to understand His love and grace and power to perform His will. Yet God Almighty bends His own perfect will to the foolish will of humanity... :gah Because He treasures the image in which He created us, we exercise our sovereignty in each choice we make. :yes
To allow one verse in the Bible to "seemingly" oppose the thorough teaching of the WHOLE word of God is unwise and disastrous. God expects everything that occurs, there are no surprises for The One Who knows all things.
:nod

It is possible for God to do a work in His people, but for His people to receive that work in vain... :shrug

Paul warned, "We then, as workers together with Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain." (2 Corinthians 6:1)

Of course, a literal vineyard does not “do†anything. But we, as God’s vineyard, are called to work with the grace of God, so that His grace is not received in vain. Grace is not given because of any works, past, present or promised; Yet it is given to encourage work, not to say work is unnecessary. God does not want us to receive His grace and become passive. Paul knew that God gives His grace, we work hard, and the work of God is done.

Jesus used this same image in His parable of the wicked tenants and the vineyard. (Matthew 21:33-46)

What IS astounding about this particular scripture, is if we read on it reveals that God punishes His people for their unwillingness to repent and for their unfruitful ways... did you read that far? It sounds a great deal like what is happening to America these days... :shades

sheshisown~
 
Although I do not believe that the King James Version is THE Bible, the words "sovereign" and "sovereignty" do not appear anywhere in the KJV. While the words do appear in a paraphrased translation, that is not the Bible.

The words "sovereign" and "sovereignty" do not appear in the Bible.
 
Jeremiah 13:15-17 -- "Hear and pay attention, do not be arrogant, for the Lord has spoken. Give glory to the Lord your God before He brings the darkness.....But if you do not listen, I will weep in secret because of your pride; my eyes will weep bitterly, overflowing with tears, because the Lords flock will be taken captive."

Knowing that Judah did not turn and listen, the Calvinist concludes that God had already chosen to withold His transforming grace from them, though He could easily have granted it. So while the text appears to identify Judah's pride as the root cause of punishment, the Calvinist instead concludes that Judah's ability to repent depends on God's eternally fixed plan.

Although the text seems to identify salvation as God's deepest desire, the Calvinist must conclude that at a deeper level God never intended to bestow transforming grace on Jeremiah's hearers. In other words the true intentions of God cannot be discerned from His words.


Albert Finch
http://afministry.ning.com (New Studies Every Day)
 

Donations

Total amount
$1,592.00
Goal
$5,080.00
Back
Top