[_ Old Earth _] the sun orbits the earth?

[Sparkey]

Yes....it's a conspiracy theory to take God's Word as truth and to reject the assumptions of men. Ok Sparra' .

This is the product of many hours conversation with your brilliant Geocentric brother??>> An animation of the Earth spinning and two humungous "holier than thou" lectures on how to debate a topic? Lolz!

Come back when you have something to contribute to the topic bud.

???

This is your reply to what I thought was a Christian admonishment? Strangelove, my advice was well founded and given from a good heart. Can you not see that Paul did well when he spoke to the polytheists and walked circumspectly? He did not confront directly but sought to sow the truth with seeds of peace. You will do well to rethink this.

Regarding your personal comments and dispersions - part of me resists dignifying them with an answer at all - certainly when you speak disparagingly about my brother even you must know that you are speaking of something you don't know anything about, but that's not a barrier to you.

Let all things be judged by two or three witnesses. This is two now and I see no reason to wait for a third. You are on 'ignore' (not that I expect you to care).

~SparrowHawke

 

[Strangelove]

???

This is your reply to what I thought was a Christian admonishment? Strangelove, my advice was well founded and given from a good heart. Can you not see that Paul did well when he spoke to the polytheists and walked circumspectly? He did not confront directly but sought to sow the truth with seeds of peace. You will do well to rethink this.

Regarding your personal comments and dispersions - part of me resists dignifying them with an answer at all - certainly when you speak disparagingly about my brother even you must know that you are speaking of something you don't know anything about, but that's not a barrier to you.

Let all things be judged by two or three witnesses. This is two now and I see no reason to wait for a third. You are on 'ignore' (not that I expect you to care).

~SparrowHawke

You what!?

How's that Sparra?

I demand you take that back immediately. Blatant false accusation.

By calling your brother "brilliant" (an echo of your own words) you twist that to mean I'm disrespecting him?

What a nasty and cheap shot.

You should be admonishing yourself if anyone.

Good day sir.

 

[Strangelove]

None required to a question that has been effectively answered many times with many different examples from several posters. Clearly nothing will shake you from your delusional insistence about this, so what's the point in trying to show you how and why you are wrong when you have already been shown the how and why over and over?

Um...talk about exageration. I coupla irrelevant comments about spacemen not feeling movement is hardly effective answers for why us humans on Earth cant feel the enormous g forces of Earths several movements.

No answer still ed!

 

[lordkalvan]

Um...talk about exageration. I coupla irrelevant comments about spacemen not feeling movement is hardly effective answers for why us humans on Earth cant feel the enormous g forces of Earths several movements.

No answer still ed!

As you know, you have been referred to a great many more examples and references than that you refer to above - which only appears 'irrelevant' to you because, I guess, you are ideologically resistant to accepting the implications of the information you have been provided with.

 

[Strangelove]

As you know, you have been referred to a great many more examples and references than that you refer to above - which only appears 'irrelevant' to you because, I guess, you are ideologically resistant to accepting the implications of the information you have been provided with.

Ok Kalvan why dont you give us these great many examples in bullet point fasion.

People standing on Earth cant feel the Earth move because:

- ed!
- ed!
- ed!
- ed!

 

[Strangelove]

The Moving Vehicle Fallacy​

Heliocentrists usually propose a fraudulent analogy of how the earth's motion is comparable with some person walking inside a moving train. They claim that since the walker inside the train feels more or less the same as he or she feels when walking on the ground (which is a stretch as you can always feel the movment) that somehow is supposed to reassure us that the earth could also be moving without we feeling it.

The problem with this analogy is of course the fact that once the person inside the train opens a window and faces the elements, he or she will feel it soon enough what the real speed is that the train is traveling at! Therefore the only correct analogy for someone walking on the ground of earth is someone walking in an open train or better yet - on the roof of a moving train. What will happens then?

Well, the person will instantly encounter a force that is proportional and in opposite direction to the moving train. But why? Isn't the surrounding air supposed to be following the train, just as we are told the atmosphere is allegedly doing so by keeping-up with the supposedly faster-than-bullet rotating earth? Looks like heliocentrists have decided to suspend the laws of physics (aerodynamics) just for this case of a badly needed moving earth theory!

But still somehow, this law of motion is supposed to apply in all other cases of moving things in the universe?! This contradiction is quietly adopted in order to hide the fact that there is a force that is causing an air drag or friction that wasn't there before the train arrived. The friction with the earth's surface wasn't there because, unlike the train, the earth didn't move!

From - sites.google.com/site/abafte/geo

 

[Strangelove]

Friedrich Nietzsche:

"...While Copernicus has persuaded us to believe, contrary to all the senses, that the earth does NOT stand fast, Boscovich has taught us to abjure the belief in the last thing that "stood fast" of the earth: the belief in "substance", in "matter", in the earth-residum and particle-atom - it is the greatest triumph over the senses that has hitherto been gained on earth."

 

[Strangelove]

Geocentric Universe:

 

[Strangelove]

Satanic-zionists Are Behind Fake-Universe Propaganda!​

The moving-Earth lie is the taproot of Satan's strategy to overthrow God. "As The Adversary, whose self-seeking caused him to be cast out of heaven, Satan declared his purpose to overthrow God and take over His universal government. Listen to his boast: Isaiah 14: '...... I [Lucifer] will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north...... I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High'. This incredible claim of Satan exposes the heart of his plan to set himself up in the place of God."

The groundwork is being laid for the brainwashing/mind-control of the general public through the Criminal Mainstream Media Cartel by NASA/Barry Goldstein et al and by Hollywood/Steven Spielberg et al and by Zionist PSY-OP agencies of "crop circle" builders and UFO Shysters like Steven Greer...... for a future Orson Welles 1938-type "War of the Worlds" FAKED/STAGED alien attack (special note: space aliens or ETs are fictional characters only and do NOT exist except in some people's imaginations), or staged FALSE MESSIAH advent-coming . . . where they will inaugurate the 'New Order of the Ages'/Satanic World Rule. Quote: "...... do everything you can to bring Mossiach (The Jewish Messiah)!" Rebbe Manachem Mendel Schneerson - the seventh and last spiritual leader of the Chabad-Lubavitch movement...... some Chabad Hasidim believe that he will return as the Messiah.

EVIL, ANTI-CHRISTITIC Club/CrimeScheme/SecretSatanicCult (derived from Babylonian mystery religion) that has a diabolical plan for World Control, Ownership, Domination, Depopulation and Genocide. Their plan, which is already underway, is to eliminate 5.5 BILLION of the world's population (while at the same time lulling and deceiving people by saying world population is too high and increasing), by: 55+% taxation of fathers; an illegal, uncompetitive, offshore, and privately owned fake money/currency monopoly enforced by State violence; tricking women to avoid their best biological baby-making years which are from ages 14 to 26; mass murder expeditions("military war"), terrorism and maiming by the bought-and-paid-for puppet State; abortions by "family planning" groups; current massive multi-trillion dollar "bailout" (looting/heist) for Power Elite; manufactured pandemic diseases; manufactured famines; vaccinations and flu shots designed to sterilize or cause death; executions of dissident non-statists; and other ways.

From - sites.google.com/site/earthdeception/homepage-six

 

[Strangelove]

The Koran--Like the Bible--Refutes Copernicanism​

As in the Bible, the Koran describes the sun as a body that rises and sets, that has a course it follows like the moon has a course it follows, and that the sun’s course is an orbit that produces day and night on the Earth. Since the earth orbiting the sun and the sun orbiting the earth at the same time is not possible, one of these motions must be the Truth of the matter and one must be a deception--a clever one to be sure--but still a deception.

The Koran’s agreement with the Bible on this creation matter pits the Moslems, Christians--and those Jews who follow the Creation accounts in the Bible--against those who--knowingly or unknowingly--are following the Creation account in the mystic Kabbala (Cabala).

The Kabbala account plainly sets forth a Big Bang, Expanding Universe concept which operates on Einstein’s mathematical “fantasies†(his own description: Earth book, p.129). These Kabbalist inspired foundational “facts†of modern cosmological “science†now determine how the universe came to be.

Add to this the fact that NASA’s multi-billion dollar “Origins Program†is inextricably connected and dependent upon the Kabbalistic Big Bang Paradigm, and it can be readily seen that the strategy for destroying Biblical and Koranic Creationism for Christians, Moslems, and believing Jews is in its final phase.

The relevant passages and page numbers found in the translation of the Koran cited above are as follows:

The Merciful -p.19 - “The sun and the moon pursue their ordered course.â€

The Cave - p.91 - “You might have seen the rising sun decline to the right of their cavern, and, as it set, go past them on the left, while they stayed within...â€

Abraham - p.101 - “He has created rivers for your benefit, and the sun and the moon, which steadfastly pursue their courses....â€

Thunder - p.140 - “Allah...forced the sun and the moon into His service, each pursuing an appointed course....â€

Ya Sin - p.172 #1 - “The sun hastens to its resting place: its course is laid for it by the Mighty One, the All-knowing.â€

Ya Sin - p.172 #2 - “The sun is not allowed to overtake the moon.... Each in its own orbit runs.â€

The Creator - p.176 - “He has forced the sun and the moon into His service, each running for an appointed term.â€

Luqman - p.187 - “He has forced the sun and the moon into His service, each running for an appointed term.†(Same as written in The Creator, p.176.)

The Hordes - p.273 - “He made the sun and the moon obedient to Him, each running for an appointed term.â€

The Prophets - p.292 - “It was He who created the night and the day, the sun and the moon: each moves swiftly in an orbit of its own.â€

The Cow - p.352 - “Allah brings the sun up from the east....â€

The Cessation - (implied) p.17 - “I swear by the turning planets and by the stars that rise and set.â€

From - FixedEarth.com

 

[lordkalvan]

Ok Kalvan why dont you give us these great many examples in bullet point fasion.

People standing on Earth cant feel the Earth move because:

You can keep reiterating this ill-informed question with all the silly emoticons you care to add and I will keep referring you back to the many posts in this thread where more contributors than just myself have attempted to explain this to you as simply and best we can, with copious examples and appropriate references and citations.

ETA Re your last posts and assorted diatribes. Do you actually have anything positive to contribute, or are you just interested in posting strawman versions of 'heliocentric' analogies, selected quotemines from a philosopher dead for more than a century, unexplained graphics and wild-eyed propagandizing?

 

[Strangelove]

You can keep reiterating this ill-informed question with all the silly emoticons you care to add and I will keep referring you back to the many posts in this thread where more contributors than just myself have attempted to explain this to you as simply and best we can, with copious examples and appropriate references and citations.

ETA Re your last posts and assorted diatribes. Do you actually have anything positive to contribute, or are you just interested in posting strawman versions of 'heliocentric' analogies, selected quotemines from a philosopher dead for more than a century, unexplained graphics and wild-eyed propagandizing?

Do you?

Ok....you have no answer to why we cant feel the Earth move but you dont need to take out your aggrivation on me.

You seem to have issues Kalvan. I would advise you to read through the Gospels again with an open heart and mind and see the real Jesus. The saviour. He can do wonders for your life my friend. He might be able to take the edge off buddy. He did for me.

If you have aproblem with any of the things I'm bringing forward then address them. Strawman? Huh? Propagandizing? Where? Show where I have not spoken the truth. Address the topic not the poster.

I'm not allowed to quote dead people now? LOLZ!

 

[lordkalvan]

Do you?

Ok....you have no answer to why we cant feel the Earth move but you dont need to take out your aggrivation on me.

As pointed out, the answers have been given by several posters. The fact that you don't like them and deny them does not mean that they have not been given, nor that they do not adequately and satisfactorily account for the phenomenon that you deny cannot exist. No aggravation at all, just a quiet shaking of the head.

You seem to have issues Kalvan. I would advise you to read through the Gospels again with an open heart and mind and see the real Jesus. The saviour. He can do wonders for your life my friend. He might be able to take the edge off buddy. He did for me.

Your religious experiences may be of interest to you, but they are not to me. If you want to imagine that you know 'the real Jesus', that is your privilege. However, I do not think that your imagination is a reliable guide to whoever or whatever this may be.

If you have aproblem with any of the things I'm bringing forward then address them. Strawman? Huh? Propagandizing? Where? Show where I have not spoken the truth. Address the topic not the poster.

Addressed - many times. You can sincerely believe you are telling what you perceive to be the truth, but that doesn't mean that what you are telling is, indeed, the truth. I have pointed to a number of the strawman arguments you have advanced, here and elsewhere.

I'm not allowed to quote dead people now? LOLZ!

You can quote who you like, but I do not see what relevance this person's views have to offer on this topic. You have also only quoted a part of his comments from the work in which he made them. He went on to say that -

One must, however, go still further, and also declare war, relentless war to the knife, against the "atomistic requirements" which still lead a dangerous after-life in places where no one suspects them, like the more celebrated "metaphysical requirements": one must also above all give the finishing stroke to that other and more portentous atomism which Christianity has taught best and longest, the soul-atomism. Let it be permitted to designate by this expression the belief which regards the soul as something indestructible, eternal, indivisible, as a monad, as an atomon: this belief ought to be expelled from science!

I guess if he was 'sound' on geocentrism, he must be pretty 'sound' on this too.

 

[Strangelove]

As pointed out, the answers have been given by several posters. The fact that you don't like them and deny them does not mean that they have not been given, nor that they do not adequately and satisfactorily account for the phenomenon that you deny cannot exist. No aggravation at all, just a quiet shaking of the head.

Um No. It's just your spaceman bunkum.

If you want you can summarise all the points that tell us why we cant feel the motion of the eArth when we are standing on Earth. Here I'll even put the bullets for ya:

_
_
_
_

Your religious experiences may be of interest to you, but they are not to me. If you want to imagine that you know 'the real Jesus', that is your privilege. However, I do not think that your imagination is a reliable guide to whoever or whatever this may be.

My imagination? No my friend. It's the evidence contained within the Gospels. The witness testimonies of Christ. If you have read the evidence and come to the conclusion that Christ is not the Son of God then I'm sorry but you are antichrist in our eyes defined by the following verse:

2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

And just for kicks that verse also describes you as a liar, which I hasten to add is not my personal accusation of you or that of antichrist but it is the scriptures talking. Seeing as scripture defines you as a liar then no-one on these forums would have any reason to believe anything you bring forward. Nothing personal. Thats just our beliefs. Anyone who deny's the Christ cannot be trusted. Simples.​

Addressed - many times. You can sincerely believe you are telling what you perceive to be the truth, but that doesn't mean that what you are telling is, indeed, the truth. I have pointed to a number of the strawman arguments you have advanced, here and elsewhere.

You can POINT to strawman argumants but can you show WHY they are strawmen? Critical difference.

You can quote who you like, but I do not see what relevance this person's views have to offer on this topic. You have also only quoted a part of his comments from the work in which he made them. He went on to say that - [completely unrelated]

I quoted the part that is relevant to the topic. Is that a crime?

 

[lordkalvan]

Um No. It's just your spaceman bunkum.

So you keep trying to imply, but you know perfectly well that you have been given multiple examples and references and they all point to the same conclusion: absent a change in forces that can be registered by the vestibular system, we have no idea of whether or not we are moving in relation to X or if X is moving in relation to us. Absent visual references at all, we have no idea of whether we are moving or not.

If you want you can summarise all the points that tell us why we cant feel the motion of the eArth when we are standing on Earth. Here I'll even put the bullets for ya:

You have been given the explanation several times by several posters. If you refused to get it then, you're not going to agree to get it now.

_My imagination? No my friend. It's the evidence contained within the Gospels. The witness testimonies of Christ. If you have read the evidence and come to the conclusion that Christ is not the Son of God then I'm sorry but you are antichrist in our eyes defined by the following verse:

2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

And just for kicks that verse also describes you as a liar, which I hasten to add is not my personal accusation of you or that of antichrist but it is the scriptures talking. Seeing as scripture defines you as a liar then no-one on these forums would have any reason to believe anything you bring forward. Nothing personal. Thats just our beliefs. Anyone who deny's the Christ cannot be trusted. Simples.​

This metaphysical sermonising would be more impressive if you didn't post quotemines and misrepresentations from various apologetics sites with every sign of approval.

You can POINT to strawman argumants but can you show WHY they are strawmen? Critical difference.

If you assert, for example, that evolutionary theory says X (when it says no such thing), simply so that you can attack and demolish X - thereby showing evolutionary theory is false - then you are engaging in a strawman argument. I think that shows why something is a strawman. A specific example is provided by your earlier quoted example of 'heliocentrists' proposing the 'fraudulent analogy' of someone walking inside a moving train to show why we do not experience a sense of movement from either Earth's rotational or orbital velocities. Your source neither cites its own source for this 'usually' proposed 'fraudulent analogy', nor names any of the many 'heliocentrists' who apparently espouse it; your source provides neither bibliography nor notes to reference this assertion. Absent any clear indication of the seemingly many 'heliocentrists' who 'usually' apply this 'fraudulent analogy', it very much seems that the supposed 'usually' quoted analogy is a post facto creation of the author, i.e. s/he has thought of some invalidating arguments against an example that s/he has thought up for her/his self.

I quoted the part that is relevant to the topic. Is that a crime?

Nope, but I doubt you agree with Nietzsche on the arguments he put forth that I quoted, so I wondered why you considered the quotation you gave as useful to your argument. And, indeed, given your comments above regarding the untrustworthiness of anyone who 'deny's (sic) the Christ', I am even more surprised that you would regard Nietzsche - who called himself 'the Anti-Christ', after all, and saw Christ as an enemy and rival - with any more confidence than the rest of us liars.

 

[Strangelove]

So you keep trying to imply, but you know perfectly well that you have been given multiple examples and references and they all point to the same conclusion: absent a change in forces that can be registered by the vestibular system, we have no idea of whether or not we are moving in relation to X or if X is moving in relation to us. Absent visual references at all, we have no idea of whether we are moving or not.

So does the Earth maintain a perfectly constant velocity in its alleged orbit of the Sun?

Do we have no visual references whilst standing on Earth?

You have been given the explanation several times by several posters. If you refused to get it then, you're not going to agree to get it now.

Lolz....dunno if you noticed but it's just you and me here Kalv.

This metaphysical sermonising would be more impressive if you didn't post quotemines and misrepresentations from various apologetics sites with every sign of approval.

It's Bible seromonising. You got a problem then go to an athiest forum where your fellows, like yourself, worship the false idol of theoretical science.

If you assert, for example, that evolutionary theory says X (when it says no such thing), simply so that you can attack and demolish X - thereby showing evolutionary theory is false - then you are engaging in a strawman argument. I think that shows why something is a strawman. A specific example is provided by your earlier quoted example of 'heliocentrists' proposing the 'fraudulent analogy' of someone walking inside a moving train to show why we do not experience a sense of movement from either Earth's rotational or orbital velocities. Your source neither cites its own source for this 'usually' proposed 'fraudulent analogy', nor names any of the many 'heliocentrists' who apparently espouse it; your source provides neither bibliography nor notes to reference this assertion. Absent any clear indication of the seemingly many 'heliocentrists' who 'usually' apply this 'fraudulent analogy', it very much seems that the supposed 'usually' quoted analogy is a post facto creation of the author, i.e. s/he has thought of some invalidating arguments against an example that s/he has thought up for her/his self.

Dude....how old are you? I just ask cos you seem to have a reasonable grasp of the English language and yet your whole tone and focus is like an upset little boy who got the wrong toy for his birthday. Again you fail to address the topic and simply whine on about my posting style and sources and watnot.

Tell you what heres a straight forward question. If a train is on the equator and travelling at 1000mph in the same direction the Earth is alledgedly turning.....and the atmosphere magically turning in perfect synchronicity with it.....,,,,,why is it that when you open your window and stick your head out, you can feel the inertia / resistance of the atmosphere against your face? If the atmosphere is travelling at 1000 mph and you are travelling at 1000pmh, why can you feel the wind rushing past you?

Nope, but I doubt you agree with Nietzsche on the arguments he put forth that I quoted, so I wondered why you considered the quotation you gave as useful to your argument. And, indeed, given your comments above regarding the untrustworthiness of anyone who 'deny's (sic) the Christ', I am even more surprised that you would regard Nietzsche - who called himself 'the Anti-Christ', after all, and saw Christ as an enemy and rival - with any more confidence than the rest of us liars.

Even antichrists, though they are habitual liars, have to admit the truth sometimes! Just a question of whether you can catch them at it.

 

[Free]

That's enough of that.