The voice of many waters?

[researcher]

The voice of many waters? Sometimes in Revelation "waters" means people. You think that's what that means?

Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice out of heaven, like a voice of many waters and like a voice of great thunder, and the voice which I heard [was] like harpists harping with their harps.

Rev 17:15 And he says to me, "The waters which you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.

Of course, the one with the voice like many waters is supposed to be Jesus:

Rev 1:15 And His feet [were] like fine brass [or, burnished bronze] when it has been refined in a furnace, and His voice like [the] sound of many waters,

Like the voice of many people? Or just a description of a massive, powerful voice? Lol. Dunno!

(Verses from the Analytical Literal Version)

 

[cyberjosh]

Well, Revelation has a ton of parallels with Ezekiel (as well as Daniel) and the description of Ezekiel's vision of Yahweh also included the description, "I also heard the sound of their wings like the sound of abundant waters as they went, like the voice of the Almighty, a sound of tumult like the sound of an army camp; whenever they stood still, they dropped their wings" (Ezekiel 1:24). Also In Ezekiel 43:2 it says, "and behold, the glory of the God of Israel was coming from the way of the east And His voice was like the sound of many waters; and the earth shone with His glory." So the imagery in Revelation is taken directly from Ezekiel.

Also if I may be allowed a brief tangent, it is precisely these descriptions in the OT which make some people's objections that Christ is not portrayed as God in the NT completely unfounded. If they would bother to understand the background of the myriad of imagery in the OT they would find the NT replete with references to Christ's divinity, because descriptions/attributes applied to Yahweh in the OT are also applied to Christ in the NT. The additional description of Jesus in Revelation 1:15 where it says, "His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters" also take the bright/glowing metal imagery from Daniel and Ezekiel both in their descriptions of God.

For example, "As I looked, behold, a storm wind was coming from the north, a great cloud with fire flashing forth continually and a bright light around it, and in its midst something like glowing metal in the midst of the fire" (Ezekiel 1:4). Daniel also writes, "I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, there was a certain man dressed in linen, whose waist was girded with a belt of pure gold of Uphaz. His body also was like beryl, his face had the appearance of lightning, his eyes were like flaming torches, his arms and feet like the gleam of polished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a tumult" (Daniel 10:5-6). The parallels here with the description of Christ in Revelation chapter one are amazing! The brightness of God's glory and the rushing and thundering sound of God's voice are uniformly understood to be known attributes of God from OT to NT.

As for your suggestion, as interesting as it may be, I don't think there is a connection with the "waters/people" imagery used later in Revelation with the initial description of Christ's voice as "the sound of many waters" in chapter one. However that is very attentive of you! I often find that the most interesting and rewarding Bible studies are when I pay close attention to themes and recurring language in a book, which I often can find parallels for elsewhere in the Bible.

I hope that answered some of your question.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[lovely]

I think we have to keep it in context of the specific vision, but it does seem to generally mean people.

Revelations 14:2 seems like the church, or a specific part of the church.

Revelations 17:5 is actually the intepretation of the vision, and specifically points to the idea that it is people, crowds, nations, tongues...the whole world?

And then, Revelation 1:15 is a description of Jesus, but then there also the church is His body.

I am so not good with these things, though. I just keep praying and trying.

 

[cyberjosh]

Lovely,

What is your assessment of my exegesis of where the reference to "the sound of many waters" came from? I believe that interpretation to be pretty sound as it is practically a word-for-word quotation from the Old Testament.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[researcher]

Thanks Cybershark. Good points. Probably just descriptive of the sound of the voice. I thought maybe it could be the "body" of Christ which is made up of many people.

Anyway, next question.

Rev 14:1 And I saw. And look! {The} Lamb having stood on Mount Zion, and with Him {a number,} 144 thousands [i.e. 144,000], having His name and the name of His Father having been written on their foreheads.
Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice out of heaven, like a voice of many waters and like a voice of great thunder, and the voice which I heard [was] like harpists harping with their harps.
Rev 14:3 And they sing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was being able to learn the song except the 144 thousands, the ones having been redeemed from the earth.

If the voice like many waters is Jesus, and that voice is coming out of heaven, and at the same time he is on Mount Zion (while the 144,000 sing before the throne (that's in heaven), is this the Mount Zion that is in heaven?

 

[lovely]

Josh,

I was typing when you were, and looking your post over I think you are probably right about it being descriptive, and Ezekiel does seem to support your conclusion. Admittedly, I am very clumsy with this stuff, but I was just thinking out loud (Echoing Researcher a bit) about the church being the body and how the descriptive element may be two-fold. I submit to you, though, because I consider myself unlearned in this area. I think your side tangent point is excellent, though, and I have stored that little treasure up. I will continue to follow along and reveal my ignorance with the hope that I will learn something from my brothers.

The Lord bless you.

 

[Joe67]

There is one spirit that has given all testimonies of Jesus, testifying to one purpose, the one hope of our calling in Jesus Christ. The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophesy. This testimony concerning Jesus Christ and his Body is hidden in 3 forms of thought.

May the veil of these 3 forms of thought be taken away from our thoughts as we read and hear and see.

Jesus said that it all testifies of him.

Joe

 

[researcher]

Thanks for the comments, lovely.

Joe67, what 3 forms of thought?
Thanks

 

[whirlwind]

Thanks Cybershark. Good points. Probably just descriptive of the sound of the voice. I thought maybe it could be the "body" of Christ which is made up of many people.

Jeff I think that is correct. It is the body of Christ.

• Revelation 1:15 And His feet [were] like fine brass [or, burnished bronze] when it has been refined in a furnace, and His voice like [the] sound of many waters,
  
  Colossians 1:18 And He is the Head of the body, the church: Who is the beginning, the Firstborn from the dead; that in all things He might have the preeminence.
  
  Zechariah 14:4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives.......

His "feet" are the witnesses still on earth at the return. Those that change in the twinkling of an eye. They stand on the spiritual mount of olives...nation of olive trees....Israel/believers.

Anyway, next question.

Rev 14:1 And I saw. And look! {The} Lamb having stood on Mount Zion, and with Him {a number,} 144 thousands [i.e. 144,000], having His name and the name of His Father having been written on their foreheads.
Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice out of heaven, like a voice of many waters and like a voice of great thunder, and the voice which I heard [was] like harpists harping with their harps.
Rev 14:3 And they sing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was being able to learn the song except the 144 thousands, the ones having been redeemed from the earth.

If the voice like many waters is Jesus, and that voice is coming out of heaven, and at the same time he is on Mount Zion (while the 144,000 sing before the throne (that's in heaven), is this the Mount Zion that is in heaven?

He arrives first in His witnesses, "His feet." They are the voice of many waters. But, He is still in heaven, with His elect and they are...the spiritual Mount Zion. Therefore there is a voice of many waters from heaven too.

 

[researcher]

Thanks WW. Anyone have a different pov?

 

[Joe67]

Thanks for the comments, lovely.

Joe67, what 3 forms of thought?
Thanks

re,

The apostle John testified concerning the 3 ways the new birth is not.

John 1:12-13
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. KJV

These 3 ways that we are not born from above are all good and God ordained through the first Adam. The good in these 3 ways can not give us clear consciences with God, peace with our fellow man and bring in everlasting righteousness.

Joe

 

[cyberjosh]

Josh,

I was typing when you were, and looking your post over I think you are probably right about it being descriptive, and Ezekiel does seem to support your conclusion. Admittedly, I am very clumsy with this stuff, but I was just thinking out loud (Echoing Researcher a bit) about the church being the body and how the descriptive element may be two-fold. I submit to you, though, because I consider myself unlearned in this area. I think your side tangent point is excellent, though, and I have stored that little treasure up. I will continue to follow along and reveal my ignorance with the hope that I will learn something from my brothers.

The Lord bless you.

Thanks, and I'm glad that observation interested you. I know I was myself amazed when I started reading through Daniel and Ezekiel and noticed the descriptions and compared it to Revelation for the first time. I was trying to point to the source of the imagery. As for its interpretation you are right in that it must be taken in context.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[cyberjosh]

Jeff,

I'm just curious, are you doing this for a personal or group Bible study of any kind? I have recently been attending a thursday night bible study on the end times and we have been jumping a lot between Daniel, Matthew 24, and Revelation for the past 4 weeks. It's a very interesting topic. Anyway, just wondering.

God Bless,

~Josh