The War To End All Wars

[eddif]

The only reason we are off topic is because we have listened to the rapture dream instead of reading the scriptures.

1 Thessalonians 4:16
16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first.
17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Dead in Christ (goats)
Alive in Christ (lambs)

First:
Tares first with beast and false
Bundled for fire


Jewish Christian’s ( from the preaching of Jesus in the grave.)
Remain in grave with white robes

Dead Christian’s in grave?

Christians alive rule with Jesus till Satan is loosed for a season.

I will stop here. I will survive any who wish to scream at me.
But
The scripture is not in agreement with John Nelson Darby

eddif

 

[eddif]

The earthquakes now are generally on fault lines.

The prophecy is for earthquakes in various places.

eddif

 

[eddif]

The final separation between believers and unbelievers is in the blink of an eye.

When time is no more.
eddif

 

[Stormcrow]

journeyman, I forgot to give you the verse specifying that the events we are discussing in which I think are past and you think future as being the worst ever experienced by anyone on the planet before or since (for me.)

21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.

This describes a singular event in human history done, in my view, to a people who murdered the Son of God and subsequently persecuted 100s of the sons and daughters of God made by Christ’s shed blood purely because they were jealous and so allowed Satan to direct their deeds. They were evil beyond endurance and all the blood of all the murdered prophets was laid upon them as Jesus said. They were judged by God on this earth for what they did. That’s over and done.

And we know this passage is speaking of the judgment of Jerusalem because it had happened before:
Ezekiel 5:8–9 (NKJV)
8 therefore thus says the Lord GOD: ‘Indeed I, even I, am against you and will execute judgments in your midst in the sight of the nations. 9 And I will do among you what I have never done, and the like of which I will never do again, because of all your abominations.

The instrument of God's judgement then was Babylon, led by Nebuchadnezzar. Jerusalem and its temple were destroyed in 586 BC.

Why did God do this?
2 Chronicles 36:15–17 (NKJV)

15 And the LORD God of their fathers sent warnings to them by His messengers, rising up early and sending them, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place. 16 But they mocked the messengers of God, despised His words, and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against His people, till there was no remedy.
17 Therefore He brought against them the king of the Chaldeans, who killed their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion on young man or virgin, on the aged or the weak; He gave them all into his hand.

Matthew 24:21 begins with a conjunction "for then" (because), which means it's referring to an earlier statement or idea. In this case, we know what that earlier idea is:

Matthew 23:31–36 (NKJV)

31 “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. 33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? 34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

And he repeats this idea of their persecution to His disciples when discussing the signs for the end of the age:

Matthew 24:9 (NKJV)
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.

Luke describes what the "abomination of desolation" is:
Luke 21:20–22 (NKJV)

Destruction of Jerusalem [parallel passages Matt. 24:15–21; Mark 13:14–19]

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

See that phrase "these are the days of vengeance"? This was part of Christ's earthly mission, as foretold by Isaiah:
Isaiah 61:1–2 (NKJV)
61 “The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon Me,
Because the LORD has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD,
And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,

As I wrote before, Revelation is, in part, a story of two tribulations: the tribulation of the saints, Christ's messengers, seen in chapters 1-8, and the judgment that comes on Jerusalem and Judea because of it in chapters 8-20. It is also a story, in part, of God divorcing the harlot and taking His new bride. It marks the end of one covenant (chapter 20) and the beginning of another (chapter 21).

Finally, I leave you with this: In Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28, Moses tells Israel what the penalties for disobedience to the covenant would be. In Leviticus, he writes:

Leviticus 26:23–33 (NKJV)

23 ‘And if by these things you are not reformed by Me, but walk contrary to Me,
24 then I also will walk contrary to you, and I will punish you yet seven times for your sins.
25 And I will bring a sword against you that will execute the vengeance of the covenant;
when you are gathered together within your cities I will send pestilence among you;
and you shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
26 When I have cut off your supply of bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall bring back your bread by weight, and you shall eat and not be satisfied.

27 ‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me,
28 then I also will walk contrary to you in fury;
and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
29 You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.
30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;
and My soul shall abhor you.
31 I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your sweet aromas.
32 I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it.
33 I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you;
your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.

And what was the single, greatest act of rebellion against God that generation did?

Matthew 21:33–41 (NKJV)
33 “Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”
41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”

They knew Christ was talking about them, and they killed him anyway. They did, indeed, fill up the measure of their guilt.

Understanding Revelation isn't hard. You just have to understand Christ's earthly mission.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

And we know this passage is speaking of the judgment of Jerusalem because it had happened before:
Ezekiel 5:8–9 (NKJV)
8 therefore thus says the Lord GOD: ‘Indeed I, even I, am against you and will execute judgments in your midst in the sight of the nations. 9 And I will do among you what I have never done, and the like of which I will never do again, because of all your abominations.

The instrument of God's judgement then was Babylon, led by Nebuchadnezzar. Jerusalem and its temple were destroyed in 586 BC.

Why did God do this?
2 Chronicles 36:15–17 (NKJV)

15 And the LORD God of their fathers sent warnings to them by His messengers, rising up early and sending them, because He had compassion on His people and on His dwelling place. 16 But they mocked the messengers of God, despised His words, and scoffed at His prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against His people, till there was no remedy.
17 Therefore He brought against them the king of the Chaldeans, who killed their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion on young man or virgin, on the aged or the weak; He gave them all into his hand.

Matthew 24:21 begins with a conjunction "for then" (because), which means it's referring to an earlier statement or idea. In this case, we know what that earlier idea is:

Matthew 23:31–36 (NKJV)

31 “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. 33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? 34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

And he repeats this idea of their persecution to His disciples when discussing the signs for the end of the age:

Matthew 24:9 (NKJV)
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.

Luke describes what the "abomination of desolation" is:
Luke 21:20–22 (NKJV)

Destruction of Jerusalem [parallel passages Matt. 24:15–21; Mark 13:14–19]

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

See that phrase "these are the days of vengeance"? This was part of Christ's earthly mission, as foretold by Isaiah:
Isaiah 61:1–2 (NKJV)
61 “The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon Me,
Because the LORD has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD,
And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,

As I wrote before, Revelation is, in part, a story of two tribulations: the tribulation of the saints, Christ's messengers, seen in chapters 1-8, and the judgment that comes on Jerusalem and Judea because of it in chapters 8-20. It is also a story, in part, of God divorcing the harlot and taking His new bride. It marks the end of one covenant (chapter 20) and the beginning of another (chapter 21).

Finally, I leave you with this: In Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28, Moses tells Israel what the penalties for disobedience to the covenant would be. In Leviticus, he writes:

Leviticus 26:23–33 (NKJV)

23 ‘And if by these things you are not reformed by Me, but walk contrary to Me,
24 then I also will walk contrary to you, and I will punish you yet seven times for your sins.
25 And I will bring a sword against you that will execute the vengeance of the covenant;
when you are gathered together within your cities I will send pestilence among you;
and you shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
26 When I have cut off your supply of bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall bring back your bread by weight, and you shall eat and not be satisfied.

27 ‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me,
28 then I also will walk contrary to you in fury;
and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
29 You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.
30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;
and My soul shall abhor you.
31 I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your sweet aromas.
32 I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it.
33 I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you;
your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.

And what was the single, greatest act of rebellion against God that generation did?

Matthew 21:33–41 (NKJV)
33 “Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”
41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”

They knew Christ was talking about them, and they killed him anyway. They did, indeed, fill up the measure of their guilt.

Understanding Revelation isn't hard. You just have to understand Christ's earthly mission.

It is thrilling to read how all of this was accomplished in real time to real people to whom Jesus said and how and when he said it would be. It all makes sense. Those who committed the terrible sin of murdering the son of God as they murdered all the prophets were judged and suffered the fate Jesus said would come unless they repent. So many of the scriptures fell into place when I understood this.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No it isn't over and done, because NT believers have entered their labor.

We were not talking about labor but God's judgement. When God judges a people there always comes to a time when it is over and done. God's judgement does not go on and on. That would be unjust. That was what I was referring to, the judgement of God which we are not under.

Jesus said the blood of all prophets would be on them because the prophets testified of our Savior. And so do we.

The blood of the prophets would be on that generation because they too murdered the prophets. That blood is not on us. We did not murder these men. But yes, it is because the prophets testified of Jesus and also they murdered them.

The tribulation is a "singular" (One) event, because we're one in him. His death is the great tribulation believers experience, some to greater degrees, but all have a willing heart.

Dear Journeyman, no where in scripture does anyone say anything close to this ethereal position. That "time of great tribulation" to use Jesus' words, are singular in history because they happen once in the whole of human existence on earth. When mothers are eating their babies because they are hungry, that is tribulation. We do not experience "great tribulation" because we experience "to some degree" his death. We know nothing whatsoever about his death. The human mind cannot willing embrace torture in order to feel with someone else. The mind shuts down in imagining horror that all but unhinge the mind.

The abomination that causes desolation is the wanton murder of Christ. Wanting God out of ones life. Wanting him dead. And the beast (Rome) and false prophet religious leaders who hate God) stood in the holy place (in the judgment seat of God.)

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Zechariah's prophesy, written a long time before Jesus came along, says these scribes & pharisees will kill the Messiah .
No matter what or who they think of him, they are prophesized by God to do so .
They are destined to kill him.

Not true. When God or a man clearly see the future choices others will make, this in no way means they are so predestined you do so.

This was written long before Jesus was even a baby .

Zec 12:10
... they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

You may believe that the scribes and pharisees looked at this passage and believed it described themselves & how they would pierce their messiah, but I certainly don't.

Of course they didn’t think that of themselves.

I think the scribes and pharisees looked at this and said among themselves:
" this Zachariah is nuts, we are to smart & holy to ever make such a terrible mistake "
Zechariah even goes further.

They didn’t think that either for sure.

He prophesizes that because of this rejection & killing of their messiah they will suffer severe punishment:

Zec 14:2
For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

That is so and it happened.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I'm mot giving you Bible verses that say otherwise. Do you think Jesus was teaching that everybody hearing him and not repenting, would have a tower fall on them? Or have Pilate mingle their blood with sacrifices?

There is a difference between judgement of individuals after death and God wiping out a people group because of group sin.

A persons' death has everything to do with "end times", because it's the end of their life. We need to get away from the idea that our Lord was only talking about people in the distant future.

I disagree. We are unwise to think that our own personal lives are all that there is and scriptures speaking clearly to nations are all meant for us personally. The whole of Revelation, Daniel and Matthew 24 are to people groups and do not address individual judgement after death. The believers even suffer in those descriptions who do NOT suffer after death.

All OT saints has the Spirit of Christ around them.

No they don't. Where does the Bible say that?

I don't even understand your post. I don't know where I gave the impression God will punish the whole world soon.

I do not think that but all those who believe the events in Revelation are future DO and some of those think SOON. Is that not your position? My mistake if not.

He does that daily and probably has multiple reasons for doing so.

No he does not. He does not say he does and so does not. You can read the Bible from cover to cover and you will not find that God is punishing people daily for multiple reasons. That is NOT how he operates.

I think your next post will clear up apparent contradictions.

We do not think alike on these matters. I think I understand you and so ask, do you understand me. I am not very ethereal in my thinking but think concretely. There are things God does and things He does not do and an answer as to why in each case. These acts start and end in time. They are not unending.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The scribes and pharisees believed Jesus would land on the Mount of Olives and it would be split in two ?
Were did you read that ?

Zec 14:4

And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

The scripture in Acts 1 it says clearly:

Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Therefore, Jesus will come again quietly, not on horseback with an armed entourage and not landing necessarily on the mount of Olives splitting it violently. That verse does not apply to that event. Time to rethink one's theology.

 

[eddif]

So what event did the rabbis' interpret from Zachariah as causing the Mount Olives to split in two ?

I may not be certified to answer, but here goes.

Perhaps this fits.

When you think of repentance a Greek word is used at times. Sometimes (from what I hear) it may be translated forgiveness and sometimes remission.
Sometimes people only hear forgiveness and make a stand.

Other people only hear remission and make a stand.

Maybe it has to do with the one new man. Our Jewish or gentile heritage.

I tend toward a one new man thought. Remission is used to speak of cancer. Cancer in remission may have a few cells active, but the dominion of cancer is broken.

Did Jesus forgive our sins? Yes.

Before I make a blunder I will stop.

eddif

 

[Stormcrow]

From the early church father Eusebius in his work, "The Ecclesiastical History":

Those who wish can retrace accurately from the history written by Josephus how many evils at that time overwhelmed the whole nation in every place and especially how the inhabitants of Judaea were driven to the last point of suffering, how many thousands of youths, women, and children perished by the sword, by famine, and by countless other forms of death; they can read how many and what famous Jewish cities were besieged, and finally how terrors and worse than terrors were seen by those who fled to Jerusalem as if to a mighty capital; they can study the nature of the whole war,* all the details of what happened in it,* and how at the end the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophets was set up in the very temple of God,* for all its ancient fame, and it perished utterly and passed away in flames.

KIRSOPP, LAKE ; LAKE, K. ; OULTON, J. E. L. (trans.): Preface. In: PAGE, T. E. ; CAPPS, E. ; ROUSE, W. H. D. ; POST, L. A. ; WARMINGTON, E. H. (eds.): The Ecclesiastical History and 2: English Translation, The Loeb Classical Library. vol. 1. London; New York; Cambridge, MA : William Heinemann; G. P. Putnam’s Sons; Harvard University Press, 1926–1932, p. 201

If you want to know why Christ wept over Jerusalem before entering it for his last Passover on earth, read Josephus "Wars of the Jews" as recommended above. It explains, often in graphic detail, what the judgment of God looks like and why no Christian should ever want to see it again.

 

[journeyman]

So what event did the rabbis' interpret from Zachariah as causing the Mount Olives to split in two ?

Yhvh descending from heaven. I'm pretty sure they believe H2O will flow from Jerusalem as vs.8 says it will, but we know this as the outouring of the holy Spirit.

 

[eddif]

Yhvh descending from heaven. I'm pretty sure they believe H2O will flow from Jerusalem as vs.8 says it will, but we know this as the outouring of the holy Spirit.

Which Jerusalem?

Out of our belly?

eddif

 

[journeyman]

We were not talking about labor but God's judgement. When God judges a people there always comes to a time when it is over and done. God's judgement does not go on and on. That would be unjust. That was what I was referring to, the judgement of God which we are not under.

I understand believers aren't under judgment, but Gods' wrath is shown towards unbelievers every day and it doesn't have to be against whole populations.

The blood of the prophets would be on that generation because they too murdered the prophets. That blood is not on us.

By "us", do you mean "believers"? If so, of course not. God will not hold the blood of the prophets against any believer, whether OT or NT. If not, it's time to stop identifying as a citizen of any earthly country, because we belong to the heavenly Country.

We did not murder these men. But yes, it is because the prophets testified of Jesus and also they murdered them.

I think in the end, it's not going to matter what time period on earth people murdered, or sinned against God in some other way.

Dear Journeyman, no where in scripture does anyone say anything close to this ethereal position. That "time of great tribulation" to use Jesus' words, are singular in history because they happen once in the whole of human existence on earth. When mothers are eating their babies because they are hungry, that is tribulation. We do not experience "great tribulation" because we experience "to some degree" his death. We know nothing whatsoever about his death. The human mind cannot willing embrace torture in order to feel with someone else. The mind shuts down in imagining horror that all but unhinge the mind.

I would like to ask you what you think Paul meant when he said,

That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection,and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; Phil.3:10

 

[eddif]

God chastens those he loves.

The ungodly are not so, they are sleek and fat and have no problems.

King David knew.

eddif

 

[Consecrated Life]

Consecrated Life said:
So what event did the rabbis' interpret from Zachariah as causing the Mount Olives to split in two ?

Yhvh descending from heaven. I'm pretty sure they believe H2O will flow from Jerusalem as vs.8 says it will, but we know this as the outouring of the holy Spirit.

Since Jesus's feet were not able to split the mount when He previously touched down as you noted earlier. who is going to do it ?

 

[journeyman]

There is a difference between judgement of individuals after death and God wiping out a people group because of group sin.

You're confusing the issue. What is the difference between God wiping out a people group, or one individual? Except for numbers, no difference at all. When will a people group, or one individual face final judgment? At the same time.

I disagree. We are unwise to think that our own personal lives are all that there is and scriptures speaking clearly to nations are all meant for us personally. The whole of Revelation, Daniel and Matthew 24 are to people groups and do not address individual judgement after death.
The believers even suffer in those descriptions who do NOT suffer after death.

I understand what you're saying. Believers suffer as our Lord did,

ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; 1Pet.4:13

The problem we're having understanding each other is because of humdreds of years of misinterpretation of the scriptures.
Somewhere, sometime, in Christian theology, this devilish doctrine of God pouring out his wrath on his Son was invented. Some of the rulers in Jesus' day thought so and they were happy passerbys thought so,

And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God. Lk.23:35

They didnt understand that like his Father, he withheld at that time destroying them for the terrible sins they were committing against him.
Here is also where Heb.12:6 applies. Using the same agencies, satan used them to curse God, while God used them to teach us about his mercy.

Do you see whatI'm saying?

No they don't. Where does the Bible say that?

the Spirit ofChrist which was in them 1Pet.1:11

I do not think that but all those who believe the events in Revelation are future DO and some of those think SOON. Is that not your position? My mistake if not.

No, that's not my position. My position is, the revelation of Christ is a recurring thing that happens to people in every age, from Adam and Eve until the end of time as we know it. The players may be different, but the results are always the same.

No he does not. He does not say he does and so does not. You can read the Bible from cover to cover and you will not find that God is punishing people daily for multiple reasons. That is NOT how he operates.

We do not think alike on these matters. I think I understand you and so ask, do you understand me. I am not very ethereal in my thinking but think concretely. There are things God does and things He does not do and an answer as to why in each case. These acts start and end in time.
They are not unending.

Yes, I understand you. I didn't mean to imply the things of life as people perceive them are neverending.

I'm sure God punished me in my life so I would consider him. I believe God works this way in many peoples' lives every day.

I believe this earth and all that is in it, in some way is a representation of the heavenly realm. When Christ judges the living and dead, no one will be judged as "a people". There's justbelievers and unbelievers.

The etheral is compared to the earthly throughout the scriptures.

 

[journeyman]

Which Jerusalem?

Out of our belly?

eddif

Both, as our Lord was raised there.

 

[journeyman]

Consecrated Life said:
So what event did the rabbis' interpret from Zachariah as causing the Mount Olives to split in two ?

Since Jesus's feet were not able to split the mount when He previously touched down as you noted earlier. who is going to do it ?

One belief the rabbis' have is that God will come down and split the mountain. They believe God will destroy those who fought against the Jewish people. The gentiles who are left will worship God, keeping the Feast of Tabernacles.
The Feast of Tabernacles commemorates Gods' provision to his people after being delivered from slavery. His people rejoiced in temporary shelters as they brought in the fall harvest.
This is exactly what our Lord Jesus accomplishes, as we are freed from the bondage of sin and rejoice in out temporary bodies as we bring in the harvest of believers.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I understand believers aren't under judgment, but Gods' wrath is shown towards unbelievers every day and it doesn't have to be against whole populations.

I don’t see any indication that believers are spared God’s wrath if their deeds warrant it nor that unbelievers are under His wrathful judgement every day. No where in scripture does it say this. It’s appointed once for man to die and THEN comes individual judgement.

By "us", do you mean "believers"? If so, of course not. God will not hold the blood of the prophets against any believer, whether OT or NT. If not, it's time to stop identifying as a citizen of any earthly country, because we belong to the heavenly Country.

That blood was only held against that generation according to Jesus.

I think in the end, it's not going to matter what time period on earth people murdered, or sinned against God in some other way.

I disagree. It matters a great deal if you live where people are being slaughtered or live in peace.

I would like to ask you what you think Paul meant when he said,

That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection,and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; Phil.3:10

He desire was to understand the motives and choices of the One True God, to share in the sufferings He has since the cross in the here and now but the latter is still beyond my experience so I cannot explain it.