The word "Church" is not in scripture.

[JudaicChristian]

Also: Woman clothed in the sun - Google Search

 

[JudaicChristian]

Did you know that the cross is a Pagan sun symbol. The Romans hung people on a stake or pole.

 

[Pard]

I fail to see your point in any of this, unless it is to incite argument.

 

[jasoncran]

Did you know that the cross is a Pagan sun symbol. The Romans hung people on a stake or pole.

really? the cross is found in the city of pompeii ad 79 was when that was buried.

Pompeii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

HOUSES OF PANSA AND SALLUST from Pompeii

 

[JudaicChristian]

The point is that Yahshua was not hung on a cross. The Romans did not hang people on a cross, they hung them on a tree pole. Constantine the Great was a Sun worshipper. He was also the Pagan high priest until the day he died. He also proclaimed himself head of the Christian (Church / Congregation.)

 

[Pard]

I still fail to see what your point is. A "point" isn't merely your ability to debunk something, you must in turn use that to make an argument of your own. Simply stating that the current point of view is wrong is simply inflammatory, unless you can provide some argument that this inflammatory material helps prove.

What I am getting from you at this moment is instead of saying church (a word that was literally invented to describe a congregation of Christians) I should say something else. Instead of a cross we should have a stick and I honestly don't get this sun god stuff at all... It seems irrelevant to anything. Was Constantine in the Bible? All he did was pioneer the pilgrims trail that is in Israel today.

 

[Scotth1960]

The word "Assembly and Congregation" are INTERPRETATED as Church. Now what do you think of that?

If you will take notice, the word Church is not used in the Old Testament. The word Ekklesia is used 114 times, and mostly as an INTERPRETATION for Church and a few times as Assembly or Congregation. The word Church is an INTERPRETATION were as Assembly or Congregation would be a TRANSLATION.

The ecclesia or ekklesia was the principal assembly of the democracy of ancient Athens during its Golden Age (480-404 BCE). It was a gathering place for politicians and voters. This is the word used in most English versions as a rendering of the New Testament's Greek word ekklesia. Ekklesia really means "a calling out", a meeting or a gathering. Ekklesia is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew qahal, which means an assembly or a congregation. Neither ekklesia nor qahal means a building.

Tyndale, in his translation, uniformly translated ekklesia as "congregation" and only used the word "'churches" to translate Acts 19:37 for heathen temples! Where then did the word "church", come from?
Ecclesiastical sources give the origin as kuriakon or kyriakon in Greek. However to accept this, one has to stretch your imagination in an attempt to see any resemblance. Also, because kuriakon means a building (the house of Kurios=Lords), and not a gathering or meeting of people, as the words ekklesia and qahal imply, therefore this explanation can only be regarded as distorted, even if it is true.

Our common dictionaries, however, are honest in revealing to us the true origin. They all trace the word back to its Old English or Anglo-Saxon root, namely circe. And what is the origin of circe? Any encyclopedia, or dictionary of mythology, will reveal who Circe was. She was the goddess daughter of Helios, the Sun deity! Again, another form of Sun worship, this time the daughter of the Sun deity had become mixed with the Christian Faith.
Some interesting facts emerge from the study of the word circe. The word is related to "circus", "circle", "circuit", "Circean", "circulate", and the various words starting with circum". The Latin pronunciation could have been "sirke" or "sirse". The Old English word circe may have been pronounced similarly to "kirke", or even "sirse".
However, Circe was in fact originally a Greek goddess where her name was written as: Kirke, and pronounced as such. The word "church" is known in Scotland as kirk, and in German as Kirche and in Netherlands as kerk. These words show their direct derivation from the Greek Kirke even better than the English "church". However, even the Old English circe for "church", reveals its origin.
Let us rather use the Scriptural "Assembly" or "Congregation", and renounce the word that is derived from Circe, the daughter of the Sun deity which is worshiped even today on the day of the Sun, Sunday!

This is what the point of this subject is: Many Christians place the importance of a "Church" as the only means of salvation, when in fact it is the believers themselves that are The Body of Christ.

Salvation is obtained by your keeping of God's precepts and Commandments in addition to the testamony of Yahshua. And that is what scripture says. That is The New Covenant.
The True Church is the "congregation" of believers.
A Chuch is a building for public gatherings of various sorts. Where ever the true believers assemble, that is the congregation.

And again like I have said before, the word church is an interpretation for the words Assembly and Congregation.

Friend, The word "church" is in Matt. 16:18 and 1 Tim. 3:15 in the KJV (King James Version). Are you claiming the King James Version is not the Word of God? If the KJV is a false Bible, which Bible is the true Word of God? Is not the Word of God in many, many different Bibles in the English language? No English language Bible is perfect, and only the original Greek NT along with the Greek OT is the inspired Word of God without errors. But in spite of a few errors in some of these English Bibles, each of them contains the Word (words) of God. Take care. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[Scotth1960]

The point is that Yahshua was not hung on a cross. The Romans did not hang people on a cross, they hung them on a tree pole. Constantine the Great was a Sun worshipper. He was also the Pagan high priest until the day he died. He also proclaimed himself head of the Christian (Church / Congregation.)

Your belief seems identical with that of the Jehovah's Witnesses, and the JW's are an Arian cult that deny that Jesus Christ is LORD, and deny the Divinity of Jesus Christ. They falsely teach that Jesus is the Archangel Michael. Go figure! Constantine the Great was a Christian who gave up all of his pagan gods, including the sun. Check your facts. You are biased against Greek Orthodox history and don't have sympathy for the truth of the matter regarding the historic teachings of the people who believe in the Trinity, the people who got all of their doctrines from the 12 apostles.
The truth is there in the NT, and in the Didache, an early Trinitarian document. Constantine was not a pagan high priest. He was a Christian emperor. Your Protestant liberal bias is showing. You follow misleading information by people pushing false propaganda. Sorry to say that, but it's the truth. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[JudaicChristian]

Your belief seems identical with that of the Jehovah's Witnesses, and the JW's are an Arian cult that deny that Jesus Christ is LORD, and deny the Divinity of Jesus Christ. They falsely teach that Jesus is the Archangel Michael. Go figure! Constantine the Great was a Christian who gave up all of his pagan gods, including the sun. Check your facts. You are biased against Greek Orthodox history and don't have sympathy for the truth of the matter regarding the historic teachings of the people who believe in the Trinity, the people who got all of their doctrines from the 12 apostles.
The truth is there in the NT, and in the Didache, an early Trinitarian document. Constantine was not a pagan high priest. He was a Christian emperor. Your Protestant liberal bias is showing. You follow misleading information by people pushing false propaganda. Sorry to say that, but it's the truth. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

After Constantine's so called conversion he continued to have Pagan coinage made. He also kept his Pagan high priest title until he died. I am not a JW.

 

[Scotth1960]

After Constantine's so called conversion he continued to have Pagan coinage made. He also kept his Pagan high priest title until he died. I am not a JW.

How do you know that? Which source do you have for your information? I would not believe it unless it comes from a reliable source. I guess it depends on what you think is a reliable source. Why all this Constantine bashing? Didn't his reforms of Rome as an empire lead to the Council of Nicea in 325 AD, and wasn't the Creed of Nicea a great and a very good thing? I believe that it was. Take care.

 

[Scotth1960]

Scott is sort of correct. "Church" does mean whet he posted, but... since the Bible (Paul) states that we believers are the temple of God, this house of the Lord is us!

Anyway, I usually prefer to use the word ekklesia, it's more in line with scripture and I like the way it sounds.



Scott, I do disagree with you on a Sunday resurrection. All scripture indicates about the timing is, He was resurrected somewhere right after sunset of day 7 and sunrise of day 1. Their days do not coincide with ours. Taking Scripture as literally as possible and taking other Messianic prophecies into account and also, the proper understanding of what it means to be in the heart of the earth for three nights and three days, leads me to believe He was resurrected shortly after the end of the weekly Sabbath.

That would still be their day one, but not ours.

Dear Vic C., Why would the early Church in the book of Acts meet on the first day of the week, Sunday, if there was not something special about that day? Why did they meet on Sunday, instead of the 7th day Sabbath (Saturday)? They met on Sundays because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday morning. And so the Church meets on Sunday mornings.
It is really as simple as that. The Church has not been deceived. People who try to Judaize the Gospel, and make everything in terms of Judaistic theology fail to realize Judaism has been fulfilled in the blood of Jesus Christ, and so we no longer are under the works of the law, animal sacrifices in a Jewish temple in Jerusalem, Jewish feast days are over, circumcision is not required of young males for them to be saved as sons of the covenant: we're under the New Covenant, not the OT covenant of circumcision and Jewish ritual dietary laws, etc. These are all over in Jesus Christ (cf. Hebrews), only the body and blood of Christ remain to atone for sin(s). Take care. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[savedbygrace57]

If the word church is not in scripture, then we must identify what is and how to properly differentiate between what is in scripture and what is not. Here's my attempt: http://www.christianforums.net/f17/church-vs-congregation-they-same-do-they-differ-35508/

The word called is in the scripture, and thats basically what the Church is a called out assembly. So there is no difference between the Two, The called or the Church.

rom 9:


24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

1 cor 1:


9God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.





Was not these corinthians part of the Church of God ? 1cor 1:

1Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

1 pet 2:


9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

 

[Pard]

What's Constantine have to do with the word "church"?

"Church" is very much an English word of English origin. Constantine spoke latin, I fail to see any form of connection between the two. And besides that, why should I care about Constantine at all? Is he in the Bible? Nope...

 

[Vic C.]

Dear Vic C., Why would the early Church in the book of Acts meet on the first day of the week, Sunday, if there was not something special about that day? Why did they meet on Sunday, instead of the 7th day Sabbath (Saturday)? They met on Sundays because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday morning. And so the Church meets on Sunday mornings.
It is really as simple as that. The Church has not been deceived. People who try to Judaize the Gospel, and make everything in terms of Judaistic theology fail to realize Judaism has been fulfilled in the blood of Jesus Christ, and so we no longer are under the works of the law, animal sacrifices in a Jewish temple in Jerusalem, Jewish feast days are over, circumcision is not required of young males for them to be saved as sons of the covenant: we're under the New Covenant, not the OT covenant of circumcision and Jewish ritual dietary laws, etc. These are all over in Jesus Christ (cf. Hebrews), only the body and blood of Christ remain to atone for sin(s). Take care. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

Hi Scott,

I was attempting to point out the fact that it wasn't actually what we would call Sunday. Yes, it was their first day of the week, but the day started at sunset. Today, the time from sunset on a Saturday 'til midnight is still... Saturday.

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Acts 20:8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.

If that were today, it would still be Saturday.

Think first century bro.

I still worship on Sunday, because in Christ, I feel I'm free to worship on any day of the week. But if you can show me (us) in scripture where it specifically says He rose on (our) Sunday morning, I'm listening.

Also, I never said anyone is deceived nor am attempting to Judaize anything! This is simply one of those things where I feel tradition got it wrong, but there's no need to be dogmatic about it either nor is this a salvific issue.