Bible Study The Work of God: Terminal Agitation Ending in Silence

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With Mark 4:15 "And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts." .... As a daily standard of being on the alert of Satan, who is the enemy of my soul, I need to be conscious of any "taking away"

I need a strategy smaller, help?

A great place to start is to recognize that the presence of the thief is a constant.

Romans 7:
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

2 Cor. 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

The first thing that will normally come to mind is that God isn't dealing with "just me" as a believer. God is also dealing adversely with the other party, no longer I, evil present, in the flesh the messenger of Satan, sin of the devil.

Then hope you don't get any more chastisements and tribulations from God than that fact might deserve.

 

[Chopper]

The question believers should ask themselves is this: Did Mark 4:15 happen to me?

Believers should know it did happen. Prior to calling on the Name of the Lord, calling on Jesus to save, the unbeliever had no clue whatsoever about Jesus as their Savior. Or, they had some vague and irrelevant far off notions of same equating to "stuff they heard" on the street, in the pulpit or on teevee.

Scriptures define this state as being ASLEEP, under the power of Satan, of darkness:

Acts 26:
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Anywhere we read of being "asleep" in the Bible, it usually speaks to the above kind of sleep. Having our eyes SHUT to the facts of Satan and the power of darkness ruling over us.

Allow me to connect a little dot here on this subject of sleep and Adam. IF we understand the principle of Mark 4:15, that where the Word is sown Satan enters the heart (darkness/sleep) to steal/tempt/kill/destroy (John 10:10), and the Word of blessings were sown on Adam by God, what then happened immediately thereafter, after that Word was sown? Yep: Satan ENTERED Adam's heart. And then what? Yep. Adam THEN received THE LAW! The question here is WHY THE LAW?

The reason Adam received THE LAW was because the "lawless one" had entered his heart to steal, to deceive, to tempt, to destroy and eventually, to kill.

The law is for the LAWLESS. 1 Tim. 1:9. Hello.

And what then happened AFTER Adam received THE LAW? Adam had a deep sleep fall upon him. And yes, this "sleep" was caused by God sowing His LAW Word upon Adam, but the fulcrum of that sleep was Mark 4:15, the entry of Satan into Adam's heart to work his dastardly deeds which deeds entail and begin with DARKNESS AND SLEEP. Spiritual SLUMBER. Acts 26:18 shows us what Satan does, as do many other scriptures. Part of that working of Satan is Spiritual slumber/sleep, darkness. Read it. It's right there to see.

From the moment Gods Words were sown upon Adam we should NO LONGER see Adam as just Adam. We should recognize that it was Adam and the tempter who had entered "his heart."

When Adam left the Garden, Adam took the tempter with him, in his own heart, in the form of Spiritual slumber/darkness of the NATURAL MAN. This is also why the natural man can not receive the things of the Spirit of God. Because they are ASLEEP, IN THE DARK, in the Spiritual sense.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

And WHY is this? Because the natural man is asleep, in the darkness, under the power of Satan who is stealing them BLIND:

2 Cor. 4:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Every last believer who is still wasting their time blaming and accusing natural man, who is in darkness, asleep, under the POWER of Satan, blinded, are WASTING YOUR TIME in doing so.

It is YOU who do not see!

Wow!! O man, talk about being blind. I had to read this teaching several times. I then decided to ask you at least one question, but something wouldn't let me, or Someone. So, instead of reading it I began to STUDY this one post more than the others because I knew I was being blinded according to Mark 4:15.

This is very deep smaller, but worth the time studying between the lines, so to speak. Once I continued applying Mark 4:15 as I studied, all of a sudden the light came on. I'm beginning to see a great danger to my spiritual life by not realizing that the enemy of my soul is stealing what the Holy Spirit is planting into my heart. There has to be a way to stop this loss smaller, right?

 

[Chopper]

Having established then, that the LAW is for the LAWLESS sinner, 1 Tim. 1:9. That Satan is a lawless sinner, 1 John 3:8. That Satan enters the heart where the Word is sown, Mark 4:15, are you starting to get the picture on THE LAW yet? Who is the LAW really against? Is it JUST MAN? No!

We know that Satan is moved into resisting/stealing action by THE WORD being sown. Isn't the LAW the WORD of God also? Yes, the Law is the Word of God, also.

IF you read this thread and come away with only ONE fact, I hope it's the fact that you see the LAW is also against Satan and devils, who are "the lawless." They, these "foreign adverse spiritual entities" can NOT BE LEGAL. Because where the Word is sown, they RESIST.

Get it yet? Wake up!

Question: You made this statement.... 2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ

IF you read this thread and come away with only ONE fact, I hope it's the fact that you see the LAW is also against Satan and devils, who are "the lawless." They, these "foreign adverse spiritual entities" can NOT BE LEGAL. Because where the Word is sown, they RESIST.

I thought the "lawless" were unsaved individuals.

 

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I thought the "lawless" were unsaved individuals.

Satan is assuredly a sinner, 1 John 3:8, and as such just as assuredly lawless. Satan is also "moved" by Gods Words, inclusive of LAW, to resist/steal those Words, Gods Words, from the heart of man. That action of THEFT of Gods Word from people's hearts is a sin of Satan IN man, and the "man" doesn't even know it happened by that other party. IF any person doesn't see their own sin is "of the devil" they are also being actively STOLEN from, seeing only themselves in the equation of sin. Sin is in fact "of the devil." People who SIN are captives of the DEVIL. Even we have our own flesh held in captivity by evil present and indwelling sin, Romans 7:17-21, but we are to reign OVER it and control it. We are supposed to KNOW sin is demonically based and is spiritual captivity of/by SATAN.

Man is not just man in the scriptures, as the scriptures see us all. Scriptures see man and the thief, the god of this world, the spirit of disobedience, a party that is NOT man.

You and whoever else will be internally challenged/stolen from whenever you and whoever else tries to keep the construct of man, as shown by the scriptures, in mind, to see the reality of "not just man" but also "NO MORE I." Romans :17-21

How many?

Mark 4:
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

In the above there is they, the people, God/The Word, and Satan. Satan in the above is "actively working against they, in their hearts, stealing." SO, when we look at "they" we need to see not just they, but the thief also.

Here is the same construct, again:

Acts 26:
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Again, 3 parties. Satan, the power of darkness, is the CAPTOR of "them." Blinding them. Stealing from them.

So, again, when we look at THEM, we must see also, the power of darkness, Satan blinding/stealing. There is not just/only a person. There is the person and the thief.

Here it is again:

2 Cor. 4:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Count 'em. 3 parties. The god of this world blinding the minds of them. Stealing Gods Words from them.

Same construct in every case. AND IF any can not see this, they too are being actively STOLEN from by Satan, the god of this world. And they don't even know it. They are not alone. It is 'them' and the 'thief.' It is pointless to not see the thief when we look at 'them.'

Here it is again:

Eph. 2:
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Same 3 parties. God/man/Satan. It is POINTLESS to see only man. Only man in the scriptures is non-existing. There is man and the resisting to God party, Satan, a spirit of disobedience.

Paul shows this same party in his own flesh, here:

2 Cor. 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

In the above there is Paul, and there is the messenger of Satan in Paul's flesh. Is it then just and only Paul??? Nope! Paul is also dealing with the "spirit of disobedience" in his own flesh in the above statement of fact. Believers who think they are not dealing with the spirit of disobedience in their own flesh/mind are being ACTIVELY STOLEN FROM by that spirit of disobedience.

Here it is again:

Romans 11:
32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Same 3 parties. God/man/the spirit of disobedience.

Here it is again:

Romans 11:
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day.

I could go on at length. But if any believer can't see it, there is a reason they can't see it. The spirit of disobedience, Satan, the thief, is actively STEALING this fact from them. And guess what? God ALLOWS this theft. IF anyone can't see it, it is really because God has not LET THEM SEE.

Why then do I bother to post these things? Because I KNOW that these facts AGITATE the resistance party(s), Satan and his devils, to do their thing. And that is what GOD really wants to happen, prior to THEIR JUDGMENT:

Romans 7:
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

That is WHY we uphold the LAW. To AGITATE the resistance party(s). To PROVE they exist. And in that GOD in Christ and His Word also PROVE His Scriptural/Word Reality. And, this is meant to happen prior to THEIR destruction. Sin is supposed to become UTTERLY SINFUL by the agitation of the LAW, bringing Satan to the fore, the lawless one, that ALL would see their own engagement with that lawless one and REBEL against that bad actor and his works/working.

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

That will result in this final sight. This is the LAST SIGHT everyone on earth will have, prior to Divine Judgment:

Romans 3:
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

IT is the same point spoken of here:

Revelation 8:1
And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

I could go on, at length.

 

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I love Paul's reasonings in these matters. Paul suckered me in, when he advised to "follow me" as "I follow Christ."

1 Corinthians 11:1
Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

I was NOT expecting, by following Paul, to be led into this conclusion:

Galatians 6:3
For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

That is exactly where Paul takes us, when proclaiming the Gospel of Gods Grace and Mercy in Jesus Christ. Paul reduces us to NOTHING.

The methodology Paul uses is GUILE:

2 Corinthians 12:16
But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile.

Guile: sly/cunning intelligence

Paul starts out by showing his own evil thoughts in Romans 7:7-13. In doing so he brings himself DOWN to the status of a commoner. A man who has vile evil thoughts, guess what? JUST LIKE WE DO.

This is called "relativity." Paul "relates" to our minds. We know we have "evil thoughts." But most of the time we HIDE these from others, especially around other 'christians.' Even to function in society we MUST keep these thoughts in check. It's mandatory. But the fact is, we DO have them. Romans 7:7-13.

And Paul makes a somewhat startling and surprising disclosure about these evil/concupiscent thoughts that work against the LAW against coveting. He miraculously discovers he can't shut the machine off in his own brain. He asks himself, WHY am I having these lawless thoughts? Where do they come from?

Why is my MIND resisting the LAW, thinking thoughts contrary to the LAW?

Stop for just a minute. Be really honest with yourself. You KNOW you've experienced the EXACT SAME THING, many many times.

But it never occurred to you that it was NO MORE I that was doing it. Kind of bizarre, ain't it? That a NO MORE I program is running in your own brain, resisting the LAW of God. Romans 7:17-21.

And guess what? IF anyone says they don't have this problem, scriptures say they are only deceiving themselves and they are NOT in truth nor are they being truthful with themselves. They will even LIE to others to their face about these facts, claiming they don't have EVIL THOUGHTS or they'll say such thoughts do NOT defile them. WRONG! IF Jesus tells us flat out that evil thoughts defile us, then my believing friends, it's just a HARD FACT you're going to have to swallow to be in line with Jesus' TRUTH. You might want to try to LIE to His Face about this fact, but it won't do you any good in the end to be a LIAR.

Here are the facts. They are not "changing" to suit and accommodate anyone's lies to the contrary. The truth IS, no liar can "truthfully" own up to these facts. They will, rather, LIE!:

Matt. 15:19-20, Mark 7:21-23 and Matt. 5:28

Now to me it's very very interesting, that God in Christ has set up HIS SYSTEM, where if anyone wants to "get close" to Jesus, they can't be A LIAR. They have to "tell the truth." And that means, they have to admit they have evil thoughts that defile them. And even worse, that these thoughts are "NO MORE I." They are in fact from the spirit of disobedience, the god of this world, Satan.

ouch! That hurt, didn't it? And all this time you were working so hard to COVER UP the fact, weren't you? Well, Jesus is going to SCAN right through that SCAM, that LIE, like a HOT KNIFE though the proverbial BUTTER.

It's a hard pill to swallow, that "NO MORE I" is running a scam on us, inside our mind, causing EVIL THOUGHTS that are contrary to the LAW.

And it gets even worse when Jesus tells us that these are the things that defile us, EVIL THOUGHTS.

Oh no! You mean I'm DEFILED? Yep. Indwelling sin, no more I, evil thoughts from 'evil present' with us DOES defile every last one of us. You think ya got any holy of yourself to give Jesus? Think again. You want HOLY you have to GET IT from the Holy One and LIARS are not going to be given anything at HIS TABLE.

GUARANTEED.

Have you followed Paul to NOTHING yet? It gets worse when we realize that these things are of the 'spirit of disobedience.' Uh, yeah. That means those kinds of thoughts are in fact SATANIC.

Welcome to nothing. When you realize you, in your own mind, are in fact the 'bearer' of Gods enemy, you'll come to see quite quickly the value of unmerited Grace and Gods Mercy in Christ. You have it. Satan DOESN'T. And God not only CAN but will deal adversely with the other party, with "NO MORE I" exactly how He Pleases. Which way is HIS RESISTANCE. No, God in Christ is not taking ALL of who you or I or any other believer is currently. "NO MORE I" is STOPPED at the GATE.

God Himself has quite purposefully put you, I and everyone else at a DIVINE DISADVANTAGE.

You and I were in checkmate from the moment we were born. We were in effect, STILLBORN/DEAD, until He Touched us:

Colossians 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Do you think the fact in red changed after you were born again?

huh uh. It didn't change. All that happened is we were SHOWN the reality of it.

We were not taught by God to LIE about it, WERE WE?

 

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If you're having a "woe is me" moment right now, welcome to the club:

Isaiah 6:5
Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.

You see to tell the truth is to ADMIT what we really are.

And no, it's not a pretty picture. Our own flesh will rebel, kick and scream and not want to "go there." Because IT is in fact against the Spirit. Gal. 5:17. It will try very hard to claim otherwise.

So, good luck coming to grips with the fact that the Spirit is against your flesh, no matter how much you try to "put the religious dressing on it." The Spirit is the ADVERSARY of our own flesh. No matter what you do with it, to it, about it, that relationship is NOT going to change.

Mediate on that, silently, for a moment.

Zechariah 2:13
Be silent, O all flesh, before the Lord: for he is raised up out of his holy habitation.

 

[Chopper]

Boy O boy smaller. Please don't stop posting all you know concerning....Mark 4:15 "And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts."

I have benefited tremendously from ALL your posts on this subject of Satan's daily intrusion into my private study of the Word of God. There are times that my spirit rejoices over several passages in a chapter, lets say Hebrews, and not long after, I couldn't tell you where it was and how I felt. Old Age? NOT!!!

The more I study your instructions, the more I realize that this is not just a surface milk application to my spirit/mind, this subject has the most far reaching, danger attention grabber, that has impacted my life since the message of the Gospel.

Please keep pressing on Brother. I hope that I'm not the only one who has been blown away by this subject.

 

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Glad you're enjoying the closer look Chopper. I hope you are seeing the construction of your own "self" in the posts. But if not, here is a Divine Treat to keep you anchored in faith.

Although our construct in the flesh, when actually seen, can bring us a very real and startling "woe is me" moment, Jesus also provides us the GREAT DIVIDER FACTOR within us.

Paul for example, in describing indwelling sin as NO MORE I, twice in Romans 7:17 & 20 is not saying indwelling sin/no more I is us as Gods children. He is providing us grounds to DIVIDE from that working, identifying it as a foreign to us occupation.

I've cited and drawn forth the scriptural facts of more than one party in the flesh at this point. More than enough to get the real spiritual picture of Mark 4:15, that being where the Word is sown, there is Satan stealing from within, from the heart, and there is the person. This makes 3 parties involved. Gods Word, the person and the adversary, Satan. In the unsaved, they don't see EITHER of the other parties, God or Satan, and are generally BLINDED to God in Christ by the other party, the thief, Satan. They think it's just them.

But for the Christian, the capital C Christian, we are to see our neighbors accurately, as a PAWN and a CAPTIVE of the thief, Satan. As such they are to have our sympathy and LOVE to the person, but RESISTANCE to their captor. We are to see CAPTIVE and CAPTOR. Not just a person.

In any cases of sights we are to see TWO PARTIES present. The person and the captor. When we are trained and skilled in our hearing, we will learn to divide and to hear whether it is one party or the other speaking. I could give many examples from the scriptures on "how" this is done and may later, such as Peter cursing when denying Jesus, which was actually the voice of Peter's CAPTOR, not Peter. Just as Satan spoke through Peter earlier, in Matt. 16:23. It's an interesting study.

But, the bottom line is, we are to be seeing THE TWO PARTY SYSTEM when it comes to seeing mankind. We see the captive and the captor. TWO.

When it comes to ourselves however, we are to see in 3 D. We see ourselves, we see indwelling sin/evil present which is the working of our adversary, and the most important part is we KNOW by faith that JESUS, GOD IN CHRIST HIMSELF is in fact in our midst, dividing us, protecting us, from the other.

Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

This is not in the midst of two people. It's the sight of THEM, the individual as a TWO PARTY construct. Our natural eyes are always and only drawn to "external sights." Our ears to "external" hearing. Spiritual senses work in the opposite way. They look INTERNALLY.

So, using our spiritual senses, this is how we should see the people of Israel in the O.T. using the TWO PARTY sights that the Spirit Delivers:

Hosea 4:12
My people ask counsel at their stocks, and their staff declareth unto them: for the spirit of whoredoms hath caused them to err, and they have gone a whoring from under their God.

Hosea 5:4
They will not frame their doings to turn unto their God: for the spirit of whoredoms is in the midst of them, and they have not known the Lord.

Do you see it now? Two parties? You may even learn that "sexual sins" do not relate to "flesh sins only." In the above "whoredom" has nothing even remotely do to with the "sex act" in the flesh. It's a spiritual whoredom, causing the heart to be joined to THE CAPTOR, Satan. I could make similar observations with many of the other falsely perceived sexual (flesh only) sins. Not denying the flesh sins are sins, but there is actually MORE to the subject than "the flesh sights only, of these sins." The flesh sins point to much deeper issues with sin and captivity of Satan.

All this time any have read that were TWO OR MORE are gathered in my name, there I am IN THE MIDST OF THEM have been seeing that as themselves and another believer. I wouldn't say it's not, but the Spiritual sight that is invoked is an internal sight of TWO, and Jesus in the MIDST of these TWO. Ourselves as Gods children, and the indwelling sin/evil present/adversary.

The construct then, in reality is this:

Gods child.
The Spirit of Christ in our midst
indwelling sin-nor more I/evil present/the adversary-Satan or the messenger of Satan

This is how the scriptural system is put together. Jesus is UPLIFTING one party, us as Gods child, and simultaneously putting down, agitating and resisting the other party.

Get it? Or resist it? Who is speaking is defined by the answer.

Two or more gathered in His Name is a personal look, at the individual believer.

This study can be bolstered by taking a look at repeated word fragments entered into an online Bible study such as "in the midst" which is citing nearly 250 times in the KJV or the term "gathered together" which occurs about 80 plus times in the KJV. Whenever there is a repeated terms set in the scriptures, it is a terms set worthy of more studies. It is in these that the beautiful tapestry of the scriptures constructs are Divinely and Intimately Woven Together.

 

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OK, now that one or two might understand the principle involved here:

Mark 4:
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

The above might be termed the "following after" principle. I'd go so far as to term it a "doctrine" of Jesus, as Jesus did describe the parable that way as prior noted in this thread by Chopper.

Mark 4:
2 And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,

Mark 1:27
And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new doctrine is this? for with authority commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him.

When we read/observe/see the activity of Jesus, we know from Mark 4:15, where the Word is sown, which Word HE IS, what happened?

Yes. RESISTANCE of Satan and devils followed after Him. This is the "following principle or doctrine." Where His Command, His Laws come, Satan is commanded to resist. That "resistance" comes in the form of evil thoughts, which defile us all. Thoughts that are what? Yep. Against the LAW. In resistance to the LAW. That's what Satan (and his own) does.

We see this same principle played out many times in many ways in the O.T. What happened to Israel? The Word came to Israel, and pharaoh of Egypt was MADE to resist, in effect following after Israel in resistance to them:

Exodus 14:4
And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, that he shall follow after them; and I will be honoured upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host; that the Egyptians may know that I am the Lord. And they did so.

Mark speaks of the same following principle here:

Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Not to overly sensationalize this "casting out" as I've seen it sorely abused over the years in the charismatic realm. The term "casting out" can have many meanings. Some of those casting out workings mean to "draw out" or to "reveal the fact of them." It assuredly does NOT mean in every case of 'casting out' to send them out of a person.

Definition:

1. to cast out, drive out, to send out
   1. with notion of violence
      1. to drive out (cast out)
      2. to cast out
         1. of the world, i.e. be deprived of the power and influence he exercises in the world
         2. a thing: excrement from the belly into the sink
      3. to expel a person from a society: to banish from a family
      4. to compel one to depart; to bid one depart, in stern though not violent language
      5. so employed that the rapid motion of the one going is transferred to the one sending forth
      6. to command or cause one to depart in haste
      7. to draw out with force, tear out
      8. with implication of force overcoming opposite force
         1. to cause a thing to move straight on its intended goal
      9. to reject with contempt, to cast off or away
   2. without the notion of violence
      1. to draw out, extract, one thing inserted in another
      2. to bring out of, to draw or bring forth
      3. to except, to leave out, i.e. not receive
      4. to lead one forth or away somewhere with a force which he cannot resist

For a working example, Jesus "revealed" that children of the devil were in the pharisees, but did NOT cast them out, in John 8:44. Spiritually blinded people can't even see the difference between the pharisees and the children of the devil. They do not know the principle of "two parties." This only proves they themselves, in that sight, are spiritually blinded. And these blind ones are often compelled to come and resist the sight of TWO PARTIES, adamantly insisting that the pharisees are the same as the children of the devil. IF they knew the principle of Mark 4:15 for themselves, personally, and had DIVISION instilled in themselves by Jesus' Doctrine, they'd know better. But alas, they remain enslaved, just as the pharisees did who thought they saw when they didn't see a thing other than themselves, justified. The opposite was actually the case. They had children of the devil in their own flesh. There was no way to be justified to start with, just as there is not with us who understand the principles.

If we "really" believe Jesus' Words, then we'd understand that Mark 4:15 happens to us also, and we know there is absolutely NO WAY to justify Satan, his workings or his ways. And yes, his way is sin, evil thoughts caused by resistance to the Word of Law.

There is no justification available for Satan, period. And simultaneously there is every justification for us, in Christ. But you see, it is not as widespread as we like to think it is. Just as there are TWO PARTIES, there are TWO entirely different sights of God in Christ upon us all. One to LIFE and one to DEATH.

 

[JLB]

With Mark 4:15 "And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts." .... As a daily standard of being on the alert of Satan, who is the enemy of my soul, I need to be conscious of any "taking away" of important doctrine that Jesus wanted to sow into my heart....Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman (me) of the house (Head of house)had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

It has always bothered me, that when the Spirit of God, unlocks a great nugget of Truth that applies to my life, and it seems that after a half hour, I can't remember what the Truth was that impacted my spirit. Listen, I wanted to meditate on that Truth, but it was GONE from my mind/heart. At 76 years old, I chalked it up as just an aged mind that forgets a lot of things.

Now I know what may have really happened....Mark 4:15 "Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their (My) hearts."....Somehow, I have to come up with a spiritual strategy to defeat Satan from stealing valuable life changing principles from the Word of God. This might be one, 2 Corinthians 10:5 "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ."

I need a strategy smaller, help?

Yes, great scripture.

It's up to us, to make the choice the exercise our God given dominion over our own life. To meditate on things above... The things which the Spirit of God reveal to us.


10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:10-16



JLB

 

[JLB]

I've cited and drawn forth the scriptural facts of more than one party in the flesh at this point. More than enough to get the real spiritual picture of Mark 4:15, that being where the Word is sown, there is Satan stealing from within, from the heart, and there is the person.

15 And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts. Mark 4:15

Satan must come from wherever he is to where the Gospel is preached, because he is not present in their flesh.

That is what Mark 4:15 reveals to us.

Cometh - Comes - Strong's G2064 - erchomai

1. 
   
   
   • to come
     1. of persons
        1. to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning
        2. to appear, make one's appearance, come before the public
   • metaph.
     1. to come into being, arise, come forth, show itself, find place or influence
     2. be established, become known, to come (fall) into or unto
   • to go, to follow one

JLB

 

[JLB]

Satan is assuredly a sinner, 1 John 3:8

8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8

This verse says "he" who sins, is of the devil.
The person himself who sins is "of" the devil.

There are two different persons being revealed here in this scripture:

1. The person who sins
2. The devil

Your post seems to "merge" the two together, as if "sin" was the devil.

Is that what you are teaching?


JLB

 

[smaller]

Yes, great scripture.

It's up to us, to make the choice the exercise our God given dominion over our own life. To meditate on things above... The things which the Spirit of God reveal to us.


10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:10-16

JLB

The notions that indwelling sin and evil present with any believer is obedient or faithful is off the table. It's not even in the cards.

Here are Paul's facts on these matters. IF any reader thinks this sounds like a person who is obeying they really are not paying much attention to the facts:

Romans 7:
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Romans 7:
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Romans 7:
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Does any of the above sound like an obedient Christian?

Sorry, all you claimers of self righteousness really need to take a look at Paul's facts and follow Paul to a TRUTHFUL CONCLUSION and quit pulling your own legs about these facts. IF any were really LISTENING and FOLLOWING Paul in his "truthful" conclusions you'd be scrambling to the BOTTOM of the pile of sinners, not trying to claim otherwise:

1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

It's fairly easy, once seen, to tell who is actually speaking honestly, telling the truth, and who is putting on completely phony religious cloth.

Believers who "follow Paul" will follow Paul to the same conclusions above. And they will then know why Paul preached salvation apart from works, through Grace and Mercy of Christ, alone.

Paul in Romans 7 decimates any "works for salvation" claimers and exposes them for dishonesty. Believers who understand Jesus' Doctrine of Mark 4:15 will also see how Paul got into this condition of fact, because it is IDENTICAL to Mark 4:15

Romans 7:
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

2 Cor. 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Both of the facts above are in fact IDENTICAL to what happens in Mark 4:15.

 

[smaller]

8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8

This verse says "he" who sins, is of the devil.
The person himself who sins is "of" the devil.

Mark 4:15 is a reality. Where the Word is sown Satan does enter the heart to steal, to destroy, to tempt, to deceive, and a host of other adverse workings eventually meant to KILL. Sin is also "of the devil." There is no way to avoid that conclusion of 1 John 3:8. As much as believers try to claim otherwise.

There are two different persons being revealed here in this scripture:

1. The person who sins
2. The devil

Your post seems to "merge" the two together, as if "sin" was the devil.

Is that what you are teaching?

JLB

You've been claiming for YEARS now, if not decades, that indwelling sin and evil present is legal, faithful and obedient.

Yes, I do reject such notions as being anything close to "truthful" Christian discourses.

 

[th1b.taylor]

OK, now that one or two might understand the principle involved here:

Mark 4:
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

The above might be termed the "following after" principle. I'd go so far as to term it a "doctrine" of Jesus, as Jesus did describe the parable that way as prior noted in this thread by Chopper.

Mark 4:
2 And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,

Mark 1:27
And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new doctrine is this? for with authority commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him.

When we read/observe/see the activity of Jesus, we know from Mark 4:15, where the Word is sown, which Word HE IS, what happened?

Yes. RESISTANCE of Satan and devils followed after Him. This is the "following principle or doctrine." Where His Command, His Laws come, Satan is commanded to resist. That "resistance" comes in the form of evil thoughts, which defile us all. Thoughts that are what? Yep. Against the LAW. In resistance to the LAW. That's what Satan (and his own) does.

We see this same principle played out many times in many ways in the O.T. What happened to Israel? The Word came to Israel, and pharaoh of Egypt was MADE to resist, in effect following after Israel in resistance to them:

Exodus 14:4
And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, that he shall follow after them; and I will be honoured upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host; that the Egyptians may know that I am the Lord. And they did so.

Mark speaks of the same following principle here:

Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Not to overly sensationalize this "casting out" as I've seen it sorely abused over the years in the charismatic realm. The term "casting out" can have many meanings. Some of those casting out workings mean to "draw out" or to "reveal the fact of them." It assuredly does NOT mean in every case of 'casting out' to send them out of a person.

Definition:

1. to cast out, drive out, to send out
   1. with notion of violence
      1. to drive out (cast out)
      2. to cast out
         1. of the world, i.e. be deprived of the power and influence he exercises in the world
         2. a thing: excrement from the belly into the sink
      3. to expel a person from a society: to banish from a family
      4. to compel one to depart; to bid one depart, in stern though not violent language
      5. so employed that the rapid motion of the one going is transferred to the one sending forth
      6. to command or cause one to depart in haste
      7. to draw out with force, tear out
      8. with implication of force overcoming opposite force
         1. to cause a thing to move straight on its intended goal
      9. to reject with contempt, to cast off or away
   2. without the notion of violence
      1. to draw out, extract, one thing inserted in another
      2. to bring out of, to draw or bring forth
      3. to except, to leave out, i.e. not receive
      4. to lead one forth or away somewhere with a force which he cannot resist

For a working example, Jesus "revealed" that children of the devil were in the pharisees, but did NOT cast them out, in John 8:44. Spiritually blinded people can't even see the difference between the pharisees and the children of the devil. They do not know the principle of "two parties." This only proves they themselves, in that sight, are spiritually blinded. And these blind ones are often compelled to come and resist the sight of TWO PARTIES, adamantly insisting that the pharisees are the same as the children of the devil. IF they knew the principle of Mark 4:15 for themselves, personally, and had DIVISION instilled in themselves by Jesus' Doctrine, they'd know better. But alas, they remain enslaved, just as the pharisees did who thought they saw when they didn't see a thing other than themselves, justified. The opposite was actually the case. They had children of the devil in their own flesh. There was no way to be justified to start with, just as there is not with us who understand the principles.

If we "really" believe Jesus' Words, then we'd understand that Mark 4:15 happens to us also, and we know there is absolutely NO WAY to justify Satan, his workings or his ways. And yes, his way is sin, evil thoughts caused by resistance to the Word of Law.

There is no justification available for Satan, period. And simultaneously there is every justification for us, in Christ. But you see, it is not as widespread as we like to think it is. Just as there are TWO PARTIES, there are TWO entirely different sights of God in Christ upon us all. One to LIFE and one to DEATH.

Now that I can see why you started this study, thank-you! There are days when I wonder ifr I, alone, am driven insane by thoughts I find myself trying to escape from, forever. Paul nailed with "thye evil I would not do.

Thanks brother.

 

[smaller]

Understanding how Paul made the conclusion of being the chief of sinners AFTER salvation is not difficult whatsoever IF we understand Jesus' Doctrine:

Mark 4:
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Who's the worst sinner that ever existed? Obviously Satan.

IF Mark 4:15 happened to Paul, which of course it did, it's quite easy to see how Paul made that conclusion or made the likewise conclusion of 2 Cor. 12:7.

The law is meant to bring this fact to the forefront. Not put it on the back burner and ignore it.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law is meant to arouse sin to show it's ugly face. Sin takes its resisting power from the law. 1 Cor. 15:56. The law is not meant to make sin lawful or obedient, but to make sin utterly sinful, Romans 7:13

We come to Jesus with nothing, as nothing.

Once a believer comes to grips with these realities, they'll eventually ask themselves how/why we all got into this situation. Paul tells us why. And yes, Paul does implicate God in this matter. God quite Divinely Purposefully put us in a position of weakness, of vanity, of essentially nothingness, precisely to have HIS MERCY IN CHRIST upon us.

Romans 11:
32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Rather clear, to me anyway. Where 'christian doctrines' go off the rails is when we try to "justify" or "overlook" disobedience, and instead try to justify it, claim it doesn't exist or extend Grace and Mercy to it, because THAT never happened and never will.

Paul described disobedience as a spirit, and that spirit of disobedience, as Satan, the prince of the power of the air:

Eph. 2:
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Do you see what we are bound to in Romans 11:32? Pretty obvious ain't it? There is no justification for the spirit of disobedience. It's not happening. Nor do we eliminate this spirit of disobedience from the flesh, as Paul shows us in many places for himself, including here:

Gal. 4:
13 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.

14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

What does the tempter do? Insert a ding here, maybe the bell will go off in your head.

 

[smaller]

Now that I can see why you started this study, thank-you! There are days when I wonder ifr I, alone, am driven insane by thoughts I find myself trying to escape from, forever. Paul nailed with "thye evil I would not do.

Thanks brother.

You know we are engaged with warring my friend. God showed you that in the flesh in your life. Now we see it in the Spirit as well:

Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

We have to put on our Spiritual battle gear every day, because what we war with, we carry in our own flesh.

 

[JLB]

Mark 4:15 is a reality. Where the Word is sown Satan does enter the heart to steal, to destroy, to tempt, to deceive, and a host of other adverse workings eventually meant to KILL. Sin is also "of the devil." There is no way to avoid that conclusion of 1 John 3:8. As much as believers try to claim otherwise.

My post is about 1 John 3:8, and reveals the two persons involved in this scripture.

8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8

This verse says "he" who sins, is of the devil.
The person himself who sins is "of" the devil.

There are two different persons being revealed here in this scripture:

1. The person who sins
2. The devil

Your post seems to "merge" the two together, as if "sin" was the devil.

Please clarify what you are teaching about 1 John 3:8, so we can discuss the scriptures and your post's with understanding.

Do you acknowledge that there are two distinct and different persons being addressed here in 1 John 3:8?

The person who sins, as well as the devil?

Or do you believe that sin is the devil, rather than the person who sins being "of" the devil.

1 John teaches us that is the person who commits sin, that is of the devil.

• Sin is what a person commits.
• Sin is not the devil himself.
• Sin is also what the devil commits.

He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8



JLB

 

[th1b.taylor]

You know we are engaged with warring my friend. God showed you that in the flesh in your life. Now we see it in the Spirit as well:

Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

We have to put on our Spiritual battle gear every day, because what we war with, we carry in our own flesh.

Yes and there is great resistance to this teaching, I know, first hand.

 

[JLB]

The notions that indwelling sin and evil present with any believer is obedient or faithful is off the table. It's not even in the cards.

Nor did I discuss such a thing.

All I'm doing is clarifying that sin is something that people do, as well as something the devil does, which is transgression of God's law or commandments.

Example:

but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat... Genesis 2:17

Adam's sin was to disobey God, and eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

The devil was not "in" Adam's flesh, but enticed the woman to eat of the tree, in which the woman gave some to her husband.

Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’” 4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate.
Genesis 3:1-6

• Adam made the choice to eat of the tree.
• God did not force Adam to eat of the tree.

Notice the principle of deception being revealed here to us.


It was after the woman listened to and gave heed to [received] what the devil was telling her, that she "saw" that the tree was good for food, pleasant to the eyes, and desirable to make one wise.


Saw - Strong's H7200 - ra'ah

to see, look at, inspect, perceive, consider

1. (Qal)
   
   1. to see
   2. to see, perceive
   3. to see, have vision
   4. to look at, see, regard, look after, see after, learn about, observe, watch, look upon, look out, find out
   5. to see, observe, consider, look at, give attention to, discern, distinguish
   6. to look at, gaze at
      
2. (Niphal)
   
   1. to appear, present oneself
   2. to be seen
   3. to be visible
      
3. (Pual) to be seen
   
   
4. (Hiphil)
   
   1. to cause to see, show
   2. to cause to look intently at, behold, cause to gaze at
      
5. (Hophal)
   
   1. to be caused to see, be shown
   2. to be exhibited to
      
6. (Hithpael) to look at each other, face
   

JLB