Thereoy of the Atonement

[Scotth1960]

Scott,

Yet again, you speak from ignorance. You describe the twisting of Anselm (not Aquinas) by Protestant theologians. Anselm did not teach that the Cross propitiates God's wrath as if God is out to "get people".

Regards

Dear francisdesales, I believe if you check THEOLOGICA online (GOOGLE) it explains propitiation versus expiation, whereas propitiation is more the Western, Roman view, and expiation is more the Eastern, Orthodox view.
"Propitiation versus expiation" "As I understand it, "propitiation" means gaining the favor of an offended one, such as a god, or God, by eliminating wrath. Expiation means the removal of guilt (not guilt feelings but judicial guilt),so that a guilty party becomes a non-guilty one." I would say this is somewhat misleading. Expiation means more the removal of sin, so that a sinful party becomes a non-sinful one.
For more information on this subtlety, See: Eastern Orthodox Propitiation vs. Expiation
en.allexperts.com > Eastern Orthodox


In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[francisdesales]

Dear francisdesales, I believe if you check THEOLOGICA online (GOOGLE) it explains propitiation versus expiation, whereas propitiation is more the Western, Roman view, and expiation is more the Eastern, Orthodox view.
"Propitiation versus expiation" "As I understand it, "propitiation" means gaining the favor of an offended one, such as a god, or God, by eliminating wrath. Expiation means the removal of guilt (not guilt feelings but judicial guilt),so that a guilty party becomes a non-guilty one." I would say this is somewhat misleading. Expiation means more the removal of sin, so that a sinful party becomes a non-sinful one.
For more information on this subtlety, See: Eastern Orthodox Propitiation vs. Expiation
en.allexperts.com > Eastern Orthodox


In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

Again, I repeat that Anselm did not teach that God is out to get anyone, whether you want to use propitiate or expiate. That is a Protestant twisting of Anselm's theory of atonement.

Regards

 

[Scotth1960]

Again, I repeat that Anselm did not teach that God is out to get anyone, whether you want to use propitiate or expiate. That is a Protestant twisting of Anselm's theory of atonement.

Regards

Dear francisdesales, Did Ansel (and Aquinas) teach the atonement (blood) of Jesus was made to propitiate (appease/assuage/relieve) the Father's wrath against sinners? In Erie Scott

 

[torulethenight]

The theory of the atonement in popular Christianity today assumes a God who is actually unable to "forgive", at all, unless, He is paid in blood to do it.

But this kind of atonement theory seems to contradict the very definition of forgiveness, which is the cancellation of an unpaid debt. If a debt is paid, then it cannot be "forgiven".

This view of God as needing to supposedly see justice served prior to forgiving sin (which again, is a contradiction), actually makes God out to be the ultimate "legalist", Who is unable to freely forgive, even though we, as followers of Jesus are expected to freely forgive one another. How can this be?

The orthodox theory attempts to harmonize the supposed "tension" between God's "justice" on the one hand, and God's desire to be "merciful" on the other, by claiming that God has to be "holy", and therefore, punish sin. The dilemma this creates, however, is that God is represented to the human heart as One Who's "hands are tied", as it were. God wants to forgive, but God must be "just" by demanding a blood payment prior to extending forgiveness.

How contrary this idea seems to be when compared to the biblical testimony that claims God is just, because He forgives sin.

1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness".

Thoughts anyone?

 

[francisdesales]

Dear francisdesales, Did Ansel (and Aquinas) teach the atonement (blood) of Jesus was made to propitiate (appease/assuage/relieve) the Father's wrath against sinners? In Erie Scott

The primary motive of promotio in bono is too often forgotten. Reparation for evil is not the primary aim of the divine plan of salvation, rather, that good should take place. The incarnation of man serves the ultimate goal of man, that of full communion with God, full participation in the Divinity. For Anselm, sin means not giving to God what is due Him - not orienting our free will to God. The restoration of order (not God's wrath) is what is at stake, for Anselm. Cur Deus Homo goes into detail on this distinction. God's wrath is not satisfied, as if God was mad at us. God's created order is restored by the Word of God's self-sacrifice.

Regards