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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world...
- Thread starter Stormcrow
- Start date
19 For the earnest expectation of the creation [the earth and all creation] eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation [the earth and all creation] was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself [the earth and all creation] also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation [the earth and all creation] groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. Romans 8:19-22
Again, I will ask you the same question as N2thelight -
If Jesus returned in 70 AD, then why has the earth and all creation not been restored.
Answer: He did not return in 70AD!
The earth and all creation is awaiting restoration...
As in the phrase the lion will lie down with the lamb... notice this is referring to ANIMALS, not Jews or Gentiles!
...and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before,whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. Acts 3:20-21
All things, not just all people!
What part of all things isn't clear to you!
You have no excuse for not understanding THIS!
JLB
Stormcrow
Member
I can only lead people to the truth. I can't make them accept it.
So then, I guess when Jesus told Mark to preach the gospel to "all creation", He literally meant the rocks, trees, worms, and cats, too?
Look at the commission in Mark's gospel again:
And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. Mark 16:15-16 (NASB)
Somebody please tell me - in the strict literalist view by which some read these verses - how rocks can believe, how cats (who hate water) can be baptized, and how worms can be condemned for disbelief?????
This kind of literalism is one reason why the world mocks the church!!!
So then, I guess when Jesus told Mark to preach the gospel to "all creation", He literally meant the rocks, trees, worms, and cats, too?
Look at the commission in Mark's gospel again:
And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. Mark 16:15-16 (NASB)
Somebody please tell me - in the strict literalist view by which some read these verses - how rocks can believe, how cats (who hate water) can be baptized, and how worms can be condemned for disbelief?????
This kind of literalism is one reason why the world mocks the church!!!
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... whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.
Are people referred to as things?
17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': "Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life. 18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field. Genesis 3:17
The earth and all creation is the reference in Acts 3:21
5 Righteousness shall be the belt of His loins, And faithfulness the belt of His waist. 6 "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, The leopard shall lie down with the young goat, The calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little child shall lead them. 7 The cow and the bear shall graze; Their young ones shall lie down together; And the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 The nursing child shall play by the cobra's hole, And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper's den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea. 10 "And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, Who shall stand as a banner to the people; For the Gentiles shall seek Him, And His resting place shall be glorious." 11 It shall come to pass in that day That the Lord shall set His hand again the second time To recover the remnant of His people who are left... Isaiah 11:5-11
In that Day, the restoration of all things will be a reality, as it was in the garden of Eden.
JLB
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Cool i have a small amount of Jewish blood so i can live how ever i choose kill people cheat on husband do what ever and my salvation is secured by the blood in my veins....
I dont think so.... these verses are as much scripture as the ones you quoted...
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Tri Unity
Member
Good catch Reba!
What does this have to do with what I wrote.
Please read the scripture I quoted, and you will see that:
- Every Jew will see Jesus Christ and know that He is The Messiah!
- They will recognize their mistake as rejecting Him as Messiah!
- They will mourn because of their mistake as rejecting Him as Messiah!
The point I am making is;
When Jesus returns every Jew in the world will no longer embrace Judaism or any other religious activity, because EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM, EVEN THOSE WHO PIERCED HIM!
Do you somehow think that I'm implying they will all be saved when He returns?
They will mourn because it is too late for them!
JLB
Tri Unity
Member
That is what you implied. You stated:
You at least have the scriptures speaking in the future, which is where they belong. Many of your views are sound. What is not sound is to think that this happened in the 1st century. The Jews did no mourning then over the death of Jesus; nor did China or Vietnam or the Aborigines or the Saxons.
"all the tribes on the earth will mourn because of him. This will certainly come to pass!" (Rev 1:7)
I did not imply that the Jews would be saved.
The point I was making was the Lord has not returned because:
When the Lord returns all the Jews will see that Jesus Christ is Lord.
As long as they have plans to build a temple then obviously Jesus Christ has not returned.
I simply don't know how to make my point any more plain!
As long as Jews still practice Judaism, Jesus has not returned.
As long as the sun is in the sky, Jesus has not returned.
As long as you have flesh on your bones Jesus Christ has not returned.
JLB
Those who pierced Him is a reference to Jews.
Everybody will be resurrected, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
JLB
In my my posts, I am actually referring to scripture.
If you choose to read the post's, you would know that it was -
Those who pierced Him is a reference to Jews!
Of course if want to believe or say whatever your opinion is, I suppose you have that right.
Here is the scripture I quoted.
10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
"They" refers to the Jews.
Just in case you don't believe Zechariah -
21 The governor answered and said to them, "Which of the two do you want me to release to you?" They said, "Barabbas!" 22 Pilate said to them, "What then shall I do with Jesus who is called Christ?" They all said to him, "Let Him be crucified!" 23 Then the governor said, "Why, what evil has He done?" But they cried out all the more, saying, "Let Him be crucified!" 24 When Pilate saw that he could not prevail at all, but rather that a tumult was rising, he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, "I am innocent of the blood of this just Person. You see to it." 25 And all the people answered and said, "His blood be on us and on our children." 26 Then he released Barabbas to them; and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered Him to be crucified. Matthew 27:21-26
JLB
Stormcrow
Member
Still waiting for someone to demonstrate scripturally and logically that Christ died to save rocks and trees.
Still waiting for someone to demonstrate contextually how "all creation" in Mark 16:15-18 is referring to plants and minerals when the context is clearly referring to people.
And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation (pas ktisis). "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover." Mark 16:15-18 (NASB)
Show me anywhere in this passage that all creation means anything other than mankind!
And then show me anywhere in Romans 8 that these same Greek words "ktisis" (creation) and "pas ktisis" (whole/all creation) mean anything other than mankind, especially given the context of verse 1!
Then show me why those same words "pas ktisis" (all creation) in Colossians 1:23...
...the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven...Colossians 1:23 (NASB)
mean anything other than humans who heard the gospel that was preached!
"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:14 (NASB)
The end either came as Christ prophesied, with the judgment and destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple, or it didn't.
If it didn't, Jesus Christ lied.
If He lied, why follow Him at all?
For me, the choice couldn't be clearer.
Still waiting for someone to demonstrate contextually how "all creation" in Mark 16:15-18 is referring to plants and minerals when the context is clearly referring to people.
And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation (pas ktisis). "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover." Mark 16:15-18 (NASB)
Show me anywhere in this passage that all creation means anything other than mankind!
And then show me anywhere in Romans 8 that these same Greek words "ktisis" (creation) and "pas ktisis" (whole/all creation) mean anything other than mankind, especially given the context of verse 1!
Then show me why those same words "pas ktisis" (all creation) in Colossians 1:23...
...the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven...Colossians 1:23 (NASB)
mean anything other than humans who heard the gospel that was preached!
"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:14 (NASB)
The end either came as Christ prophesied, with the judgment and destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple, or it didn't.
If it didn't, Jesus Christ lied.
If He lied, why follow Him at all?
For me, the choice couldn't be clearer.
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Stormcrow
Member
And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?' Matthew 24:3 (YLT)
I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. Jeremiah 4:26 (KJV)
"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near...because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. Luke 21:20,22 (NASB)
The sign of Christ's presence - His parousia - was the destruction of Jerusalem.
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30 (NKJV)
Just as the Father had judged Jerusalem in 586 BC, so, too, would the Son judge Jerusalem in 70 AD, and in both cases, the presence of the Father and the Son was seen in and through the events that destroyed the city.
That is what Christ and His apostles meant by "the end."
I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. Jeremiah 4:26 (KJV)
"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near...because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. Luke 21:20,22 (NASB)
The sign of Christ's presence - His parousia - was the destruction of Jerusalem.
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30 (NKJV)
Just as the Father had judged Jerusalem in 586 BC, so, too, would the Son judge Jerusalem in 70 AD, and in both cases, the presence of the Father and the Son was seen in and through the events that destroyed the city.
That is what Christ and His apostles meant by "the end."
That is not what the word says -
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
- Then the sign... Jesus is saying clearly the appearing of the sign is after the sun is darkened and the moon does not give it's light...
- Jesus is saying the sign will appear in heaven and all the tribes will see, because they will mourn...
Brother your theory simply does not line up with scripture. Even if you have to use 4 different versions of the bible to make your point, still the simple truth that Jesus taught us is clear.
Every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him.
JLB
Tri Unity
Member
There are many strange ideas presented in Christianity. The end-times in pre-70AD is very odd. It doesn't matter what strange idea is presented, they all use the bible to try and convince people their view is right. That is a good reason why we need the testimony of the 2nd century fathers; through them we understand what the apostles taught on any given subject; i.e, the Sabbath; the Antichrist; the end-times. Because the fathers show how ridiculous some of these ideas are, they invariably start attacking the fathers as heretics. We need to remember that Satan used the bible to try and convince Christ that He was wrong. Go figure!
H
Hitch
Guest
Pretend literalists = pretend christians
Christianity had good guys and bad guys in the 2nd century.