This world belongs to us

[NBTrollin]

The world is the Lord's vs. The world is clearly owned by Satan? You don't see the contradiction?

 

[Free]

The world is the Lord's vs. The world is clearly owned by Satan? You don't see the contradiction?

No. There is no "owning" by Satan; ruling does not equate to owning.

 

[NBTrollin]

But how does he then rule something he has no right to?

 

[Brother Mike]

2 Chronicles 20:6 (ESV), 'and said, “O Lord, God of our fathers, are you not God in heaven? You rule over all the kingdoms of the nations. In your hand are power and might, so that none is able to withstand you"'.

Jehoshaphat is petitioning the Lord here, The hearts of the king are in the hands of the Lord and as rivers of water He turns them to his will.
I am not saying God can not move governments, and will on our behalf such as He did for Jehoshaphat. I am saying God is not controlling anything until we go to him like Jehoshaphat did. We have a part, it's not all God's part.

B-b-but that contradicts
John 12:31
Embed

Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
(Joh 12:30-32)

may be god allows evil so that some will come to Christ. just maybe that is why he said in genesis cursed is the ground for your sakes. maybe if god did reign like you say that wouldnt be a church, it would have been the 11 plus who believed at the time Christ died. if god has no power to answer prayer and satan is all that then why do even pray?

Even Paul turning over one to Satan that his spirit may be saved, as dead and with the Lord beats hell anyday. Sadly, evil things coming on people are often the only way to get them to turn around. It does not have to be like that though, and some never even get that chance.

Like when Satan had asked God to remove His hedge from Job. God was still in control. It's just that Satan hadn't counted on Job having his OWN hedge of protection built around himself. That'll preach all day!

Similarly here on earth, God reigns, and sometimes He removes His protection from us -- whether for our testing, or because our sins have hidden His face from us. But since God indeed reigns from on high, we have the grace given unto us and the ability to be more than conquerers in the Spirit of God.

If God is the one removing the protection, then there will be no grace to overcome, or conquer anything.

Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
(Deu 28:61)

Everything listed in the curse was not meant to be overcome, it was meant until thou be destroyed.

And no, God did not give permission to a crazed and disobedient spirit to murder a mans children that served him. Allah might, but Our God did not do that. What happened to Job, was Job's doing, not God's.

Mike.

 

[Free]

But how does he then rule something he has no right to?

What makes you think that?

 

[NBTrollin]

Jehoshaphat is petitioning the Lord here, The hearts of the king are in the hands of the Lord and as rivers of water He turns them to his will.
I am not saying God can not move governments, and will on our behalf such as He did for Jehoshaphat. I am saying God is not controlling anything until we go to him like Jehoshaphat did. We have a part, it's not all God's part.


Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
(Joh 12:30-32)



Even Paul turning over one to Satan that his spirit may be saved, as dead and with the Lord beats hell anyday. Sadly, evil things coming on people are often the only way to get them to turn around. It does not have to be like that though, and some never even get that chance.



If God is the one removing the protection, then there will be no grace to overcome, or conquer anything.

Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
(Deu 28:61)

Everything listed in the curse was not meant to be overcome, it was meant until thou be destroyed.

And no, God did not give permission to a crazed and disobedient spirit to murder a mans children that served him. Allah might, but Our God did not do that. What happened to Job, was Job's doing, not God's.

Mike.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA You DO know Allah is the same God as God, right?

 

[NBTrollin]

What makes you think that?

Uhmmmmmm because it says the RULER was cast out, and I don't think it means God...

 

[Brother Mike]

But how does he then rule something he has no right to?

Satan is the god of this world, in charge of a whole lot of stuff. Jesus came, brought the Kingdom of God, praying God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Since God does not have seperate wills for heaven and earth, those that live and abide in the rule of God (Kingdom of God) do not have to be subject to the devils authority, and take what the devil has stolen. Everything the devil has control of was not designed to be that way, and was stolen as God gave the earth to man and the Heavens are his.

God will be taking it all back though, and the devil punished.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA You DO know Allah is the same God as God, right?

Allah never had a Son named Jesus, the God I serve had a Son named Jesus. Two different God's and one is no god. Can't be the same.

Mike.

 

[Free]

Uhmmmmmm because it says the RULER was cast out, and I don't think it means God...

That doesn't answer my question. Let's go back and first clarify then what you are asking.

You asked: "But how does he then rule something he has no right to?"

By this, do you mean "how does Satan then rule something he has no right to rule?" or "how does Satan then rule something that doesn't belong to him?"

 

[NBTrollin]

tThat's the disagreeance, just because one denies him having a son, doesn't make it a different God. Just like some people believe in Jesus, but also believe he was married... doesn't mean they don't believe in the same person? Just different interpretations

 

[NBTrollin]

That doesn't answer my question. Let's go back and first clarify then what you are asking.

You asked: "But how does he then rule something he has no right to?"

By this, do you mean "how does Satan then rule something he has no right to rule?" or "how does Satan then rule something that doesn't belong to him?"

For sake of curiousity, both.

 

[Blake]

I don't have the energy or will to argue points and counter-points with anyone, I've had 3 hours of sleep and I'm working a 16 hour shift lol, but in the end it doesn't matter much. There's no holy text book pop theology quiz in the end. I'm more concerned with whether or not I belong to God.

Interesting reading all of these responses, though.

 

[Free]

For sake of curiousity, both.

For the first one, I then again ask: What makes you think that [Satan has no right to rule]?

For the second, this sort of thing has happened since the beginning of time. As an example, kings own all sorts of lands and have people ruling over them. Even though the king is ultimately the ruler, he has given certain persons the right to rule over what he owns.

 

[OzSpen]

AHAHAHAHAHAHA You DO know Allah is the same God as God, right?

Are you agreeing that Allah is the same God as the Lord God Almighty whom Christians worship? If that is what you believe, I would appreciate if you would defend that view so that we can discuss with you.

 

[NBTrollin]

Google "Genesis 1:1 - Arabic Bible" and look at what name they use for God? Also cant remember the verse but where the two brothers/nations split up and one was islam and the other judaism... two different interpretations of the same God ...

 

[Blake]

Are you agreeing that Allah is the same God as the Lord God Almighty whom Christians worship? If that is what you believe, I would appreciate if you would defend that view so that we can discuss with you.

That was such a charitable response and I commend you for it, truly. My perception of Islam has been so darkly colored lately, and my initial reaction to "Allah and God are the same" is sheer anger.

 

[NBTrollin]

"Allah! There is no God but He, - the Living, the Selfsubsisting, Eternal ... He sent down Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) ... as a guide to mankind." (S. Al-i-Imran 3:2-3).

 

[Brother Mike]

AHAHAHAHAHAHA You DO know Allah is the same God as God, right?

tThat's the disagreeance, just because one denies him having a son, doesn't make it a different God. Just like some people believe in Jesus, but also believe he was married... doesn't mean they don't believe in the same person? Just different interpretations

If the Qu'ran says Allah does not have a son, and the Bible says The God of Israel had a son, and even we being sons and daughters. Then it's not different interpretations as each book clearly says what it says.

A Muslim would never say Allah had a Son, and would never interpet it that way.
A Christian would never say Jesus is not the Son of God.

So, if both sides believe on what they read, and agree. Then how is that a matter of how it's interpreted? Are you saying that both Christians and Muslims are wrong,?

 

[OzSpen]

tThat's the disagreeance, just because one denies him having a son, doesn't make it a different God. Just like some people believe in Jesus, but also believe he was married... doesn't mean they don't believe in the same person? Just different interpretations

NBT, would you please learn to back-quote so I know to which post you are referring.

 

[NBTrollin]

NBT, would you please learn to back-quote so I know to which post you are referring.

Sorry, I messed up. But I was referring to Brother Mikes post...