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Tongues
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elijah23
Guest
The gift of speaking in tongues--
what was it's purpose?
:
During Pentecost the disciples were able to preach to people who didn’t speak their language, because the Lord empowered them to speak in other languages than their own. He can still do that.
Paul speaks on the subject:
[27] If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret.
[28] But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God. 1 Cor 14:27-28 RSV
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theophilus3213
Guest
The gift of speaking in tongues--
what was it's purpose?
A better question is 'what IS its purpose? as the gift of tongues is still given to believers today! I have been speaking in togues for over 38 years now. And it is a very powerful gift! See 1 Cor 14 for some of it's use and benifits.
shaloam
cleanfreak
Member
Below is an excerpt from me in one of our Bible studies and would like to know the thoughts here from the community. Any and all comments are appreciated. 
_________________________________________________________________
There are 2 important thoughts/questions I think need to be brought up and discussed based on what the bible says and not what tradition has taught us.
1. Is it possible to worship God in tongues?
2. Is it possible to pray over/for someone in tongues?
From my studies, my short answer to these questions is 'NO'.
Everybody seems to understand the "praying in tongues to God" and the order it should be done in and also the "speaking in tongues with interpretation" to the church itself. The questions above seem to step on toes an bit because it get's personal. Not only that, when the truth is finally revealed about these questions, people realize that they have been doing it wrong all along and now some "I can't believe it" and "this is impossible" attitudes flare up and then it is nearly impossible to have a conversation explaining why.
According to the writings of Paul, tongues is for the edification of ourselves. It is as simple as that. If worshiping God is all about, well, God, then how can it be done with tongues if I am edifying myself the whole time? It seems a bit selfish on my part. From what I can tell there is no scripture to back up "worshiping God in tongues". Sure there is John 4:24, where Jesus tells us we must worship in Spirit and in Truth. However, the Spirit he refers to here is not tongues. A little common sense would show that Jesus stated this before tongues even came on the scene in Acts and also there is more to the Spirit than the automatic notion of tradition that the word Spirit refers to tongues.
The same goes for praying over/for someone other than myself. Again, if it is for the edification of myself, how am I helping the other person at all? The fact is , I'm not. Some folks will argue that the Spirit, or rather 'speaking in tongues' takes over when we do not know what to pray. This is a complete contradiction to what the scripture actually says. Romans 8:26 states: 26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. ………Groaning that cannot be uttered. Hmm, the Greek word for 'cannot be uttered' is alalētos. Which literally means 'cannot be expressed in words or spoken'. The Greek word for groaning is stenagmos. Which actually means a 'sighing, as of the distressed'. So again, tradition is proven wrong……………. OUCH! toes are surely starting to throb…….
Now, I do not want to be confused about my beliefs on tongues. Are they for today? Absolutely! Are they used to edify the Church when an interpretation (whether it be a personal 'non'spoken' or spoken interpretation) is given? Absolutely! Do I have any problem with someone in the church who speaks in tongues between themselves and to God. Nope, have at it!.....but I will say this. I am a good ole' southern boy and I only understand southern English. If someone wants to pray for/over/with me, it best be in southern English or better yet, speak in an unknown tongue with an interpretation as this is even greater than prophecy ;) …….if no interpretation is given, be ready, because I will ask for one as the bible states we should.
Finally, I will say that God knows the hearts and understands what we were meaning when we did these acts in the past. I think he even laughs at times at our stupidity, but none the less we still are loved by Him. Hopefully, now that we know, or should know, we are indeed held accountable and according to 1 Corinthians: 14:38, we are to obey this command or be ignored by God himself.
_________________________________________________________________
There are 2 important thoughts/questions I think need to be brought up and discussed based on what the bible says and not what tradition has taught us.
1. Is it possible to worship God in tongues?
2. Is it possible to pray over/for someone in tongues?
From my studies, my short answer to these questions is 'NO'.
Everybody seems to understand the "praying in tongues to God" and the order it should be done in and also the "speaking in tongues with interpretation" to the church itself. The questions above seem to step on toes an bit because it get's personal. Not only that, when the truth is finally revealed about these questions, people realize that they have been doing it wrong all along and now some "I can't believe it" and "this is impossible" attitudes flare up and then it is nearly impossible to have a conversation explaining why.
According to the writings of Paul, tongues is for the edification of ourselves. It is as simple as that. If worshiping God is all about, well, God, then how can it be done with tongues if I am edifying myself the whole time? It seems a bit selfish on my part. From what I can tell there is no scripture to back up "worshiping God in tongues". Sure there is John 4:24, where Jesus tells us we must worship in Spirit and in Truth. However, the Spirit he refers to here is not tongues. A little common sense would show that Jesus stated this before tongues even came on the scene in Acts and also there is more to the Spirit than the automatic notion of tradition that the word Spirit refers to tongues.
The same goes for praying over/for someone other than myself. Again, if it is for the edification of myself, how am I helping the other person at all? The fact is , I'm not. Some folks will argue that the Spirit, or rather 'speaking in tongues' takes over when we do not know what to pray. This is a complete contradiction to what the scripture actually says. Romans 8:26 states: 26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. ………Groaning that cannot be uttered. Hmm, the Greek word for 'cannot be uttered' is alalētos. Which literally means 'cannot be expressed in words or spoken'. The Greek word for groaning is stenagmos. Which actually means a 'sighing, as of the distressed'. So again, tradition is proven wrong……………. OUCH! toes are surely starting to throb…….
Now, I do not want to be confused about my beliefs on tongues. Are they for today? Absolutely! Are they used to edify the Church when an interpretation (whether it be a personal 'non'spoken' or spoken interpretation) is given? Absolutely! Do I have any problem with someone in the church who speaks in tongues between themselves and to God. Nope, have at it!.....but I will say this. I am a good ole' southern boy and I only understand southern English. If someone wants to pray for/over/with me, it best be in southern English or better yet, speak in an unknown tongue with an interpretation as this is even greater than prophecy ;) …….if no interpretation is given, be ready, because I will ask for one as the bible states we should.
Finally, I will say that God knows the hearts and understands what we were meaning when we did these acts in the past. I think he even laughs at times at our stupidity, but none the less we still are loved by Him. Hopefully, now that we know, or should know, we are indeed held accountable and according to 1 Corinthians: 14:38, we are to obey this command or be ignored by God himself.
JudaicChristian
Member
The miracle was in the hearing, because each spoke in his own language. Some of the people knew how to speak in different languages.
Acts 2
5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”
Acts 2
5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”
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JudaicChristian
Member
True and False Disciples
Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
What is the duty of all mankind?
Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
What is the duty of all mankind?
cleanfreak
Member
The scripture above refers to a relationship that is needed.
Do you think we must not prophesy, perform miracles nor drive out demons because that will make us evildoers?
Or do you think that perhaps Jesus meant that we must not think that,that is what will get us into heaven. Grace allows us into His presence and the gifts are a natural outflow of the Holy Spirit. But we must not think that because we have the gifts that , that is the "ticket" into heaven. Many Christians are called to manifest Christ, but few will be chosen, even if they did speak in tongues, drove out demons and prophesied.
We still have the gifts. They are still all in place and operating in the body of Christ. The gifts come with the Holy Spirit. Jesus is not saying that we must not operate in them, He is simply pointing out that we can pass Him by in the process.
Amen. And the relationship does not require us to leave the gifts behind. It means we must have the relationship and the gifts.
The gift of speaking in tongues--
what was it's purpose?
1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in a tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
It depends really in which tongue you are speaking. There are three different ways according to the Bible.
1) A private prayer language that makes no sense to you. Your mind (understanding ) is inactive . You will not know what you are saying. Your spirit is praying.
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
This language is private and not to be used in the church.1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth; but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. No man understand this language. So this one is not speaking about just speaking in another known language. The Bible calls this language: The tongue of angels :1Co 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal. We must not think that tongues is the ticket ! We also need to move in love.
2) The gift of tongues. This one , not everybody gets. It is given as a gift to some who must minister in the church.1Co 14:12 So also ye, since ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may abound unto the edifying of the church.
1Co 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in a tongue pray that he may interpret This tongue edifies the church and must be interpreted.1Co 14:5 Now I would have you all speak with tongues, but rather that ye should prophesy: and greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
The gift of tongues, when it operates in the church must be interpreted .
1Co 14:27 If any man speaketh in a tongue, let it be by two, or at the most three, and that in turn; and let one interpret:
1Co 14:28 but if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
So if a person speaks in church and nobody interprets, he must know that he made a mistake and that he is using his personal prayer language and that should not happen. We learn through our mistakes. Paul was very forgiving regarding this matter and knew that people will make mistakes. Therefor he was giving advice regarding this matter.
3) The last one is when we speak in a known language that we are not familiar with. That is what the disciples did that first day : Act 2:6 And when this sound was heard, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speaking in his own language.
This gift is not used in church either. This is an evangelistic tool that is given when needed.
cleanfreak
Member
thank you for your post Cornelius
It may seem like a silly question, but it is a serious one for me, why do we need to edify ourselves? What is the purpose of this?
Thanks -
Jake
cleanfreak
Member
Great question.
Have you ever had a bad day, month, etc...? There are times we do indeed need edifying. Paul mentions that he speaks in tongues more than them all, and no wonder. Have you ever read about all that Paul went through? From ship wrecked and beaten to being thrown in jail. I can see why he did this.....and from personal experience, it does help.
Vic C.
Member
The miracle was in the hearing, because each spoke in his own language. Some of the people knew how to speak in different languages.
Acts 2
5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!†12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?â€
Yes! Many people don't see that or quite get it.
Great question.
Have you ever had a bad day, month, etc...? There are times we do indeed need edifying. Paul mentions that he speaks in tongues more than them all, and no wonder. Have you ever read about all that Paul went through? From ship wrecked and beaten to being thrown in jail. I can see why he did this.....and from personal experience, it does help.
Yes, I do know what days you are talking about. I am really trying to understand the need for this, however, not arguing, I am sincerely trying to learn, so please bare with me here.
God already knows what we need, before we pray, when we pray in our speaking language and He answers us, so why would we need to edify ourselves this way by speaking in tongues? How is this necessary for our Christian walk? What would be the difference between you and I in our choice of prayer? Would He answer your prayer more powerfully and quicker because you prayed in tongues?
(sorry for so many questions).
Thanks -
thanks reba, what does this actually mean though "edify ourselves in the Lord"?
thanks -
Jake
Pentecostal man o man lived with it all my life... I will never says tongues are not real or of the devil. Nor will I say one has to must etc speak in tongues to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Tongues is NOT unto salvation…I hate when I hear/see tongues forced on a person. Tis a privet thing between God and you.
Having known some pretty wicked folks who speak in tongues I know how tongues can be misused. I can well remember the ugly man that molested me and others speaking in tongues…. We are known by our love one to another and by our fruits. Not wither or not we speak in tongues.
Tongues is a topic that can divide it shouldn’t. Some folks look down on others because they don’t speak in tongues and vise versa. Neither view is right/wrong in my opinion.
We can all post scripture to one side or the other……
1Co 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
Having known some pretty wicked folks who speak in tongues I know how tongues can be misused. I can well remember the ugly man that molested me and others speaking in tongues…. We are known by our love one to another and by our fruits. Not wither or not we speak in tongues.
Tongues is a topic that can divide it shouldn’t. Some folks look down on others because they don’t speak in tongues and vise versa. Neither view is right/wrong in my opinion.
We can all post scripture to one side or the other……
1Co 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
cleanfreak
Member
E
Elijah674
Guest
Great question.
Have you ever had a bad day, month, etc...? There are times we do indeed need edifying. Paul mentions that he speaks in tongues more than them all, and no wonder. Have you ever read about all that Paul went through? From ship wrecked and beaten to being thrown in jail. I can see why he did this.....and from personal experience, it does help.
Well, what do you suppose they did before the flood for a bad day??? And Paul and tongues is telling us that he was a babbling idiot?? I don't think so!
(1 Cor. 14:23 has His Inspired Word as Mad, as in 'nuts' perhaps?)
Gen. 10
[31] These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations.
[32] These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth [after the flood].
________
Gen.11
[1] And [the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech].
---Elijah