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Trinity or just Father and Son?

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Joh 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
Wow, thanks for bringing all these verses to support your stance. John 14:16-17 really resonated with me though.

What do you want me to say Free? We have engaged in a civil conversation throughout this week and I fully believe in my heart now that the Holy Spirit is also truly God but is neither the Father nor the Son but equal to them. We have reasoned about it yet ultimately; I take it on faith. I remain humbled.

There has been this amazing peace in my life for a while, yet this week while going back and forth it has taken reigns over me - there is love and joy that surpasses all understanding compared to what I have been through before in my life. I sure am glad to have reached out to this forum and all of you. I have nothing more to add to this thread.
 
What about John 6:38,44 "For I have come down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me", "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day."?

Father and Son in terms of the complete family tree are one. But within the family tree they are separate entities altogether. From John 1:1-2 "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God."
You just explained the Trinity.
 
Wow, thanks for bringing all these verses to support your stance. John 14:16-17 really resonated with me though.

What do you want me to say Free? We have engaged in a civil conversation throughout this week and I fully believe in my heart now that the Holy Spirit is also truly God but is neither the Father nor the Son but equal to them. We have reasoned about it yet ultimately; I take it on faith. I remain humbled.

There has been this amazing peace in my life for a while, yet this week while going back and forth it has taken reigns over me - there is love and joy that surpasses all understanding compared to what I have been through before in my life. I sure am glad to have reached out to this forum and all of you. I have nothing more to add to this thread.
This is one of the most spiritual and comforting posts I have ever read.
:)
 
Wow, thanks for bringing all these verses to support your stance. John 14:16-17 really resonated with me though.

What do you want me to say Free? We have engaged in a civil conversation throughout this week and I fully believe in my heart now that the Holy Spirit is also truly God but is neither the Father nor the Son but equal to them. We have reasoned about it yet ultimately; I take it on faith. I remain humbled.

There has been this amazing peace in my life for a while, yet this week while going back and forth it has taken reigns over me - there is love and joy that surpasses all understanding compared to what I have been through before in my life. I sure am glad to have reached out to this forum and all of you. I have nothing more to add to this thread.
The Father is the only true God. No mention of a Son and Holy Spirit here being God. Why? Because Jesus doesn't mince words. The Father is holy and Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what the Father is.

John 17​
3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.​

No mention of someone else named the Holy Spirit knowing the Father and Son.

Matthew 11​
27All things have been entrusted to Me by My Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.​

Only the Spirit of God knows the thoughts of God? That means the Son and Father have no idea what they are thinking. That's because the Spirit of God is just another name for the Father, not a different person from Himself anymore than one's spirit is a different person from themselves.

1 Corinthians 2​
11For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
These are some important points to consider. The Bible doesn't support the Trinity. Now that you seem to be Trinitarian I would like to discuss that with you.
 
No mention of someone else named the Holy Spirit knowing the Father and Son.
The pneuma, and/or the wind , of Yahweh is often mistranslated and/or not even seen in English language Bibles, and the traditions there-of are almost universally "accepted" throughout the world as if accurate to Scripture, for over a thousand years; thus all society has been thinking of pagan architecture as if ..... .... .... well, as the "only" way to see 'God' .... and the simplicity of Yahweh as He Created everything is 'lost' .....
 
The pneuma, and/or the wind , of Yahweh is often mistranslated and/or not even seen in English language Bibles, and the traditions there-of are almost universally "accepted" throughout the world as if accurate to Scripture, for over a thousand years; thus all society has been thinking of pagan architecture as if ..... .... .... well, as the "only" way to see 'God' .... and the simplicity of Yahweh as He Created everything is 'lost' .....
100%! I don't even bother mentioning this most of the time. The spirit of someone or something is not necessarily a person, but the "breath and/or wind" that gives life to someone or something is the idea that is lost in translation. Our spirit isn't a different person to ourselves, but a part of ourselves just like the Spirit is a part of God, not a different person. The difference is He is omnipresent and sees all.

Many words like this all over the Bible that were translated into English in a way doesn't really capture what the full idea originally was.
 
The Father is the only true God. No mention of a Son and Holy Spirit here being God. Why? Because Jesus doesn't mince words. The Father is holy and Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what the Father is.

John 17​
3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.​

No mention of someone else named the Holy Spirit knowing the Father and Son.

Matthew 11​
27All things have been entrusted to Me by My Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.​

Only the Spirit of God knows the thoughts of God? That means the Son and Father have no idea what they are thinking. That's because the Spirit of God is just another name for the Father, not a different person from Himself anymore than one's spirit is a different person from themselves.

1 Corinthians 2​
11For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
These are some important points to consider. The Bible doesn't support the Trinity. Now that you seem to be Trinitarian I would like to discuss that with you.
The Spirit of God is never used as another name for the Father. As I posted above:

Act 16:6 And they went through the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia.
Act 16:7 And when they had come up to Mysia, they attempted to go into Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them. (ESV)

Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. (ESV)

Gal 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!" (ESV)

Php 1:19 for I know that through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ this will turn out for my deliverance, (ESV)

Heb 10:15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,
Heb 10:16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,”
Heb 10:17 then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.” (ESV)

It's worth noting that the writer of Hebrews equates the Holy Spirit with Yahweh, speaking as Yahweh in the OT. (It's all the more interesting as he also has the Father calling the Son Yahweh in 1:10-12.)

1Pe 1:10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully,
1Pe 1:11 inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories. (ESV)

It's also worth noting here that we similarly see that the OT prophets prophesied by the "Spirit of Christ." So, the Holy Spirit is known also as the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of his Son, among other names. And, it was by the Holy Spirit that the OT prophets prophesied.

Apart from all of that, it makes no sense that the Holy Spirit is another name for the Father, as it would be pointless or redundant in every use, and makes no sense contextually in other uses, such as:

Luk 10:21 In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. (ESV)

Luk 11:13 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” (ESV)

Joh 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. (ESV)

Joh 15:26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. (ESV)

Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
Joh 16:15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. (ESV)

Act 2:33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. (ESV)

1Pe 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you. (ESV)

Clearly, the Holy Spirit cannot be another name for the Father.
 
The Spirit of God is never used as another name for the Father. As I posted above:
Yes it does.

Jesus said the Father is Spirit and He's also holy. Therefore the Father is the Holy Spirit.

John 4​
23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”​

Additionally, 2 Corinthians 3:3 refers to the Spirit of the Living God. Jesus is never called the Living God, but rather is the son of the Living God as all of Scripture states. The Living God is the Father. Therefore the Spirit of the Living God is the Father, not a different Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3​
3It is clear that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.​
1 Thessalonians 1​
9For they themselves report what kind of welcome you gave us, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God 10and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.​
Matthew 16​
16Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
 
Yes it does.

Jesus said the Father is Spirit and He's also holy. Therefore the Father is the Holy Spirit.

John 4​
23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”​
Yes, God is spirit and God is holy, but it doesn't necessarily follow that the Father is the Holy Spirit. That is to ignore all the additional context I gave and focus on two verses. Additional proof that your argument is fallacious:

Mar 8:38 For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him will the Son of Man also be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.” (ESV)

Rev 14:10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. (ESV)

Angels are spirit and angels are holy. Therefore, the Holy Spirit is just an angel. That's the same reasoning you have used. Leaving out a majority of context will always lead to wrong conclusions.

Additionally, 2 Corinthians 3:3 refers to the Spirit of the Living God. Jesus is never called the Living God, but rather is the son of the Living God as all of Scripture states. The Living God is the Father. Therefore the Spirit of the Living God is the Father, not a different Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3​
3It is clear that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.​
1 Thessalonians 1​
9For they themselves report what kind of welcome you gave us, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God 10and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.​
Matthew 16​
16Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
None of which matters. The Holy Spirit is known, among other names, as the Spirit of God, the Spirit of the Living God, the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of Jesus Christ, the Spirit of his Son, and the Spirit of Jesus. Yet, nowhere is the Holy Spirit equated with either the Father or the Son.

Again, all that is said about the Holy Spirit must be taken into account. Not the least of which is the continual and consistent distinction made between the Holy Spirit and the Father. There is simply no way to conclude that the Holy Spirit is the Father.
 
Clearly, the Holy Spirit cannot be another name for the Father.
I totally agree.

Baptized in the name:
Of the Father

Of the Son

Of the Holy Spirit

Revelation 21:22 kjv
22. And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

So
Where is the Holy Spirit?

Already in the Hearts and Minds of believers since Pentecost.

We are the temple of the Holy Spirit.

Of course as a redneck with a foggy glass vision, what do I see? New Jerusalem?

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
Honestly, are we supposed to be spending our time figuring out what the Trinity means or should we be Believing exactly how Jesus instructs us?

Jesus gives us specific instructions to put faith in.

If Jesus words are not trustworthy, whose words are trustworthy? --John 17:3, John 20:17, John 3:16,
Matthew 16:13-17

Jesus words are what is Essential to a Christian! Not the words he never spoke! Or something we have to figure out.
 
Honestly, are we supposed to be spending our time figuring out what the Trinity means or should we be Believing exactly how Jesus instructs us?

Jesus gives us specific instructions to put faith in.

If Jesus words are not trustworthy, whose words are trustworthy? --John 17:3, John 20:17, John 3:16,
Matthew 16:13-17

Jesus words are what is Essential to a Christian! Not the words he never spoke! Or something we have to figure out.
Welcome aboard walter45
I will make comments later.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
Honestly, are we supposed to be spending our time figuring out what the Trinity means or should we be Believing exactly how Jesus instructs us?

Jesus gives us specific instructions to put faith in.

If Jesus words are not trustworthy, whose words are trustworthy? --John 17:3, John 20:17, John 3:16,
Matthew 16:13-17

Jesus words are what is Essential to a Christian! Not the words he never spoke! Or something we have to figure out.
Amen. The Father is the only true God.
 
Honestly, are we supposed to be spending our time figuring out what the Trinity means or should we be Believing exactly how Jesus instructs us?

Jesus gives us specific instructions to put faith in.

If Jesus words are not trustworthy, whose words are trustworthy? --John 17:3, John 20:17, John 3:16,
Matthew 16:13-17

Jesus words are what is Essential to a Christian! Not the words he never spoke! Or something we have to figure out.
Yes, Jesus’s words are essential, but he says far more than what you have given, including making claims about himself. He said that one must believe in him to be saved, which means not only in his work, but in who he says he is. If we get Jesus wrong, we don’t get him or the Father and are not saved.
 
Yes, Jesus’s words are essential, but he says far more than what you have given, including making claims about himself. He said that one must believe in him to be saved, which means not only in his work, but in who he says he is. If we get Jesus wrong, we don’t get him or the Father and are not saved.
Absolutely.
Matthew 16:16 kjv
16. And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

It sure is about the Father and the Son (when talking about the Son/Jesus). If we talk about the Godhead, the Holy Spirit is included.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
Holy means "set apart" in Hebrew originally. Not a name. Not a title.

A lot of what men propagate is not holy at all.
 
Honestly, are we supposed to be spending our time figuring out what the Trinity means or should we be Believing exactly how Jesus instructs us?
"Honesty" ? Where is the people who are honest today?
Around 168 a.d. give or take fifty years,
there was no mention of tinirty yet at all.
About then, some <probably> Greek philosopher thought up a three way that was The Father, The Son, And Wisdom. Later this metamorphed into other words/ meanings/ ideas/ doctrines.
 
Yes it does.

Jesus said the Father is Spirit and He's also holy. Therefore the Father is the Holy Spirit.
Shock for a moment ! Surprised how close this comes to what is written.
But no cigar.
YHVH is Spirit. Not "a" spirit. Not "the" spirit. Simply (in reality, in the original, always) Spirit.

Jesus is echad (it is difficult to find a translation that translates echad correctly).

The Father is echad.

What does John 18 Jesus Say ? Father, I pray the disciple you have given me be echad with you and with me.

Surprised ? Oughta Be! One with The Father. One with the Son. Echad. All the disciples in Jesus.
 
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