Unity

[lovely]

Lately, I have been asking the Lord to help me deny myself in a particular area that seems to greive my heart more and more. Maybe I want understanding, or maybe I want peace, or maybe I just want to complain...I am not truly sure of my own heart motive of this post, honestly.

When I log on here, and just in the church in general, I see this overwhelming battle that rages. Why? I know God's Word divides. I know that Truth divides, but why is it dividing those who call him Father...brothers and sisters? Those that have the Truth in them. Where is our love for one another in the midst of this disagreement? Where is humility? Where is the desire to love God's law, His Word? Instead we seem to bicker, and quabble. Bitterness between those who are in separate camps...I do not understand this...this bitterness, this arrogance, this attitude that. "I have it all figured out". I do not believe God wants this in my heart at all, but rather an honest attempt to share the truth of Scripture, and listen when someone is showing it to me. To consider, and search, and feast on His Word.

No, I am not saying that we should all be in exact agreement, but I am wondering why we do not love each other, or why we do not listen to each other. There are some here that I will never agree with, and that will never agree with me...am I less their sister?

I think there are two major camps, and then others that seem to branch off of those two. The two are those that are referred to as the self-righteous, the legalistic, the traditionalist, those who (supposedly) have a direct, and supernatural link with the Holy Spirit on what is true. Then there are those who are referred to as the liberal, those who do not believe we should judge others, those who think talking about law is unloving, those that put their own thoughts above Gods Word, not understand how to rightly divide the Word of God.

I can tell you that at times I am guilty of all of the above. I do not understand this huge divide in the church, and why both groups can not see that all of these things exist in everyone. Should we not, as believers, as those who have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, be just radiating love? Should not the Truth of that be first? I am not saying that we should never disagree, but is the way we disagree pleasing to God? Is there love, and humility in it? Maybe this whole post makes me self-righteous, but I am sincerely grieved over the lack of encouragement, and love among us.

I think in the light of the beautiful, and loving, mercy that God has so graciously gifted us...our words, and thoughts, should be considered so, so carefully. We should not want to cause any of our brothers to stumble, especially our younger brothers (as Scripture teaches), and we certainly should not be offending them, or hurting them out of our own pride. Just writing these words makes me feel stricken over the times my words have done this...even those times that were unintentional. We really must take captive every thought, and weigh our words against the intentions of our heart.

I love all of you, and I enjoy visiting with you all here. I am sorry if this post is just a mumble, but I wanted to write what was in my heart. Thanks to everyone who made it this far. I am not saying that we shouldn't give an answer, or that we shouldn't study to show ourselves approved, I am just saying that let us be on guard of the deceiver who wants to cause strife, pain, and divide God's children. The Lord bless all of you today.

 

[cly]

I agree with you, Lovely. Your words are obviously from your heart and are full of wisdom. Thank you for the reminder.

In Christ,

CLY

 

[Drew]

My thoughts:

1. There is a wide range of "maturity" levels in respect to being able to accept that one is wrong. There are some people who simply cannot accept the fact that they may be mistaken. Sometimes this manifests itself by a claim that they have a "pipeline" to God. Debates cease to be substantive and become "I am right because I have God's spirit". We know that this claim is not always reliable - some who make it in this forum are clearly confused about certain issues.

2. Ask yourself: Have I changed my mind on anything as a result of discussions? If the answer is "no", you almost certainly have work to do in respect to learning to admit you are wrong.

3. Debate can be healthy and spur learning.

4. We need to shift from a motivation to "win" to a motivation of "getting at the factual truth".

 

[stovebolts]

Lovely,

I'm not sure what to say. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. I understand where your coming from and know that I appreciate you and your kindness. You certainly give us all something to strive for.

Drew,
I agree with you and I think your 100% on the mark.

 

[antitox]

I think that because we are on a board where we put our thoughts on electronic paper, it is much more impersonal than speaking face to face.

Honestly, I do not speak to people about polarizing issues face to face unless I know they think the same way I do. If discussed in person over opposing views, these issues would become a shouting match and very much alienate people. That's what political newscasts of opposite views on TV become; -who can drown out the other guy.

On a message board, it is wonderful that people can be heard because no one can silence your post or put words in your mouth. Each poster gets his words on the table. We can see each answer in its posting order, and we can go back to a post and see what was actually said.

Second, each person believes what he believes in his heart and will get vocal about it because it is a sincere belief and if they feel that someone else is making light of that, it gets a little close to the heart; hence a more emotional state. One can call it immaturity, but then you would have to call all the political TV commentators immature.

 

[Khristeeanos]

Thank you for the reminder.

I guess I should read my own siggie more often. :

 

[destiny]

In face of what some think to be false doctrines, destructive doctrines, and disagreement over core biblical issues....Can we walk in the unity of the Spirit?
Can two walk together unless they are agreed?

To say that we can goes against biblical principles.



P.S....
I'm not saying who's right or who's wrong here....I'm just saying there are scriptural reasons that there can't always be 'unity' on a diverse forum like this one. It would be nice...but it's not going to be reality unless someone compromises their 'truth'.

 

[Relic]

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The apostles... Look what happened to the apostles.


The book of Acts is a valuable lesson in how people tear at each other and hate all in the name of "ego" . Also, there are so many differnt denominations and non-denomination on this board, it is like mixing oil and water.
So then, we all must keep in mind, the wheat and the tarres grow together until the day of harvest.

There are some excellent postings here, Yes, many of the messages are of excellent quality and contain much truth. Part of the reason I visit this board is because of many of the regulars that have been here since 1993 onward and as far as I am concerned, they have been an inspiriation of good conduct and provide truthfull commentaries.

But, yes, too much sarcasm and personal insults thrown back and forth on this board, the board doesn't have enough moderators for this purpose only. But then, if the moderators blocked out and/or gave warnings each and every instance there were sarcastic and personal insults thrown at someone, then there would have to be ratio of one moderator per person. :roll:


One thing this board has assisted me in doing and I'm still learning and working on it ) is to learn how to tone down my emotional response (I'm still learning), and how to stop using that old exclamation mark less and to not respond so quickly when I find myself upset over some nonsense that was written.

Some people provoke just for the purpose of seeing if they could get a rise out of someone. Trolls? Or are they just mean spirited?

Also, being here has helped me to keep aware that many of the posters are still very young, and some posters, regardless of age, are thinking with their ego's instead of with consideration of years of study and experience. Yes, it does help to be well studied. And far too many , who fall short of scriptureal backup, shoot from off the hip and accuse those who are well studied to being like the Pharasees when they are not. In other words, they accuse others of using scripture for their burden of proof, when all along the one who is accusing the person of being like the pharasee is not willing to accept scripture as proof. :roll:

Many of the posters like I stated above are of a different denomination or of a different "non-denomination" meaning, they just plain interpret scripture differently and will not budge no matter what proof they are shown. It could be that when proof is shown to some, they just refuse to budge from the way they see it regardless if they are right or wrong, they just refuse to budge out of the ego ruling them instead of the truth as presented in scripture.

I am not saying I have it all right, I may be wrong in some things also and just don't see it right away. However, I do pray the Holy Spirit show me if I am wrong. And at some point in time, I know truth will be revealed, maybe not immediately, but with time, it will be revealed. No point in useless arguments with those who disagree with you. I just rely on the Holy Spirit to show truth in it's due time, for me. And I try to back out of threads that are just going in an endless circle of nothing but stubbornness no matter what is presented.

And then.....there are those trolls. :-?



Thank you lovely, I think you have expressed it so well. It grieves my heart also to see all the bickering back and forth especially the personal insults and hurtful sarcasm from some who refuses to look at how often they do it. (They don't monitor themselves, but continue to rattle off without thinking about how they are personally attacking someone. )
I really do think that if people would just cut the sarcasm and personal insults that would help so much.
I've learned and am still learning how to do that. I hope it shows in my writings and I do hope that I am not putting the old foot in mouth as much as I used to. :



Destiny, Thanks for the thread

Unmasking Hidden Pride


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[Geo]

Although my heart fully understands what you said lovely and also
feels the same pain, I have to agree with destiny.

The stress of the current time serves a purpose, and it has to do with
dividing. Flesh/Spirit and also true/false believes and "we say/God says".
I think pretty soon our circumstances will change in such a radical way
(WW III) that as a result of it two major unities will get created.

There will be true unity among believers and a compromised unity of
the world of faiths against. It might start already this year, possibly next.
A few people that are only concerned with the spirtual realm said the dividing
is already done, the deadline to switch postion in and out of "firstfruits"
has already passed beginning of this year. I cannot personally confirm
that, but there is a possibility it's true, I heard it from three independant
Christians that have a prophetic gift, or claim to have it.

It's tempting to quarrel, and some have less resistance than others,
but honestly now -- did someone ever change a standing on a doctrine
on a forum? -- and then said "I was wrong?" or is that one actual truth:

He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is
filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him
be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

 

[Relic]

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Matthew 24:4-51 8-)



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[Geo]

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Daniel 8

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 4&start=45




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[destiny]

Geo, I agree and see so much of what you've shared in that link, I even read 'The Golden Report.'
You would probably like the news letter at..
http://65.108.220.179/

 

[Windozer]

Well I have a different picture.

I feel it is wrong to attempt to create a place where no one gets hurt. I have been falsely accused and attacked to my face by another Christian, who later found it to his benefit to apologize.

Guess what? I was not hurt by it. God provided the armor necessary to protect me from it, and because he saw that I was not hurt he has not attempted to do it again.

What you have described is the way the world is. It is not about to change, There will always be some one some where that will want to hurt you.

Jesus has over come the world. Anyone interested in what he has to provide for us?

 

[Geo]

Hey thanks Destiny for a quality link.

Just read his article ""WHY I LEFT THE PROPHETIC MOVEMENT"
what reminds me of the current prophecy message forums, where the
"new prophets and prophetess" that operate totally without discernment
have daily new sermons and 'fix date events' that never really happen.

I always start listening when they understand repentance as condition for revival.

 

[soma]

Thanks for starting such a heartfelt thread.

The mind consists of all the thoughts, opinions, judgments, prejudices and beliefs that make others wrong and us right. Our mind and beliefs can keep us from taking responsibility for our actions by making the activities we feel threatened by appear to be wrong and those activities we like appear to be right. Other people in our belief system share similar ideas and support our beliefs in this layer making us believe that we are right, even when it is contrary to the existence of life. Existence doesn’t need judgments, beliefs or opinions to exist so there is no need to be attached to the different images the mind recalls and mistakes for truth. Taking responsibility means transcending our judgments, being responsible for them, and accepting the consequences for the things we do in life. We don’t have to believe something to make it true; otherwise we are limiting what we will experience in life. We neither make nor break God’s laws; we either work with them or against them as we choose. When we work with the law of unity we reap good results and have an agreeable experience or an unpleasant result if we work against harmony.

 

[lovely]

Thanks everyone for your responses, and Destiny for your communication to me. It was so accurate, and encouraging.

I heard an old song by Keith Green the other day, and a phrase in that song reminded me of this thread, and said it much more simpy, and much more eloquently, than I could have.

"I want to take you Word, and shine it all around, but first help me just to live it, Lord"

I think this should be the heart's cry for every believer. I do not speak of unity in the sense that we include false teachings that do not align with Scripture, nor do I speak of in in the sense that we should all just compromise our own belief, and agree, so no one is hurt or so we are all fake, but on the surface harmonic. I speak of it in the sense that if we are who we say we are...believers in Christ our Lord and Saviour, then we have the bond of Christ...we are unified in this, and this is much stronger than a doctrine, or theological idea. This is our life, this is who we are because the Spirit of God dwells in us, and because of that we are spreading His love, even in our disagreement. Disagree, but do not let pide, arrogance, the motive to be right, or all the other carnal weaknesses come into it, and if they do, apologize sincerely, and forgive sincerely. I have seen this here...this humility and love, but the carnal bickering far outweighs it. I am not speaking out because my feelings were hurt by someone's harsh words, but rather that "we", believers, should not be causing offense by our words...if someone is offended, or convicted, by the Word of God, then there is a marked difference. God's people should do their best to control their tongues, and be above reproach. It should be our nature as a new creation to love first. Anyway, trying to clarify. The Lord bless all of you.

 

[NRoof]

lovely,
First I want to say I understand and agree with you 100%

The problem as I see it is simply not letting the love of God show through us. Either that or just a lack of love at all.

1 Timothy 5:1
Do not rebuke an older man harshly, but exhort him as if he were your father. Treat younger men as brothers,

2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage–with great patience and careful instruction.

These verses clearly show it is OK to disagree with someone but it also shows how to correct that person.

The other problem you raised is when people have the "I'm right your wrong" mentality. I prefer to have the "I think I'm right but I may be wrong" mentality as this allows me to listen to another's view objectively. It also leaves open the possibility that the interpretation I hold to may be incorrect.

Here is something I posted a while back but I think it fits with the topic.

Romans 14:19
Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another.

Ephesians 4:16
From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

1 Corinthians 10:31
So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

There are more verses but this will suffice for now.
I have seen very little that glorifies God or edifies others. I have not seen people rebuked in loving kindness. What I have seen is a disdain for people who don’t completely agree with another’s position. I have seen flat out attacks on the UR’s, Catholics and others instead of showing the love of Christ and possibly leading that person to the truth. Now you will probably say we are supposed to rebuke those who call themselves Christian and promote a false doctrine. Well you are right but do you honestly think it is glorifying to God to call that person and idiot? This exact verbiage may not have been used but it is close enough.

I am saddened daily by coming here and seeing this.

To be fair I have seen some very good discussions but they seem to be far and few between.

Luke 10
8 Whatever city you enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you. 9 And heal the sick there, and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’ 10 But whatever city you enter, and they do not receive you, go out into its streets and say, 11 ‘The very dust of your city which clings to us we wipe off against you. Nevertheless know this, that the kingdom of God has come near you.’

It profits nobody to continue the arguments I have seen here. It certainly does not edify others or glorify God so we should do what the Bible tells us. Wipe our feet and move on.

Here is the bottom line for me.
If I were not a Christian when I came here I probably would not want to be one based on what is said and written in these posts.

The things that lovely has brought up is why I don't post much here.
I see very little on this board that would inspire me or others to seek God.

You have all heard the expresson:
You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Here is my take on it as I have said before.
You catch more sinners with love than condemnation.

Just my humble 2 cents worth.

 

[Windozer]

Make sure your speakers are turned on.

http://www.cryofthespirit.com/somepeople.html