Universal Church

[RadicalReformer]

Perhaps when you start your thread on the "deposit of faith"... I will outline a defense of Sola Scriptura.

Oh, and Scripture says that the only reason we know how to Love is because God FIRST loved us. It is not "built in"

Ok then Rad. I'll accept you inabilty to prove Sola Scriptura. I'm suprised you guys sunk that easily.

God love us first so that is why we know how to love....well Rad, that sounds like a God Given thing to me, hence the phrase "built-in".

Peace

Where did I say that I was inable to prove Sola Scriptura? I merely said that I will start the thread when you start the thread about "deposit of faith'.

It is only built in for those who are been 'born from above'.

 

[RadicalReformer]

Tblaine, assuming you are Roman Catholic, you have chosen to accepting the interpretations givin to you by the magesterium. How do you know you made the correct choice?

RR,

Let me preface my answer by disowning any claim to “know†of the accuracy of my choice, as my belief is based on certain conclusions. I believe that conclusions are only as good as the concepts they are drawn from. As I am open to the likelihood that there are relevant concepts I have yet to consider, belief in the accuracy of my choice is all that I will claim. Thus, I dare not answer how I “knowâ€Â. Though, I can answer why I believe in the accuracy of my choice. I believe in it, because I believe in the history that I have considered, regardless of how difficult it may be to discern. Further, I believe in the logic that it facilitates, as laid out in my posts. It is this logic which forms the basis of my belief. Incidentally, it is logic which is the contrasting element in these posts. You and MEC, and anyone, for that matter, are welcome to address the logic that began this thread, but for some curious reason you don’t. Instead, you appeal to universal concepts like “holinessâ€Â, and theological concepts about divine revelation through the Spirit; concepts that, while intriguing, will in no way serve to advance our debate.

Huh? Talking about holiness, something we are to strive for; seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit, that which Christ promised to us when He ascended - the Holy Spirit the true vicar of Christ; somehow will not "serve to advance our debate'?

Wow.... so what will "advance our debate" if you do not want to talk about Scriptural concepts?

 

[A-Christian]

It is only built in for those who are been 'born from above'.

So your saying that anyone that is not christian does not love their family, or fellow man?

Peace

 

[francisdesales]

I am sorry that you feel you need to "beg". Scripture says that God is faithful to forgive, and that He has already forgiven those who are His.

I am not here to judge your humility or lack thereof. But begging God for forgiveness is certainly a Scriptural concept - rather than your "God already has forgiven me" fallacy. To my ears, it borders on arrogance and gives rise to the idea that one has license to sin, since God "already has forgiven you". Sorry, that is not really worth arguing about, as no Christian worth their salt believes they are forgiven or redeemed without FIRST coming to faith, part of which is repentance.

We are not forgiven until we ask for forgiveness and find it in our hearts to forgive others.

We are off topic now, so I think we should get back to your evidence, or, judging from the topic change, your lack of evidence regarding the Universal Church, the Catholic Church.

Regards

 

[RadicalReformer]

It is only built in for those who are been 'born from above'.

So your saying that anyone that is not christian does not love their family, or fellow man?

Peace

Only those who are born from above, can truly understand the Love that God shows for humanity. Yes.

 

[RadicalReformer]

I am sorry that you feel you need to "beg". Scripture says that God is faithful to forgive, and that He has already forgiven those who are His.

I am not here to judge your humility or lack thereof. But begging God for forgiveness is certainly a Scriptural concept - rather than your "God already has forgiven me" fallacy. To my ears, it borders on arrogance and gives rise to the idea that one has license to sin, since God "already has forgiven you". Sorry, that is not really worth arguing about, as no Christian worth their salt believes they are forgiven or redeemed without FIRST coming to faith, part of which is repentance.

We are not forgiven until we ask for forgiveness and find it in our hearts to forgive others.

We are off topic now, so I think we should get back to your evidence, or, judging from the topic change, your lack of evidence regarding the Universal Church, the Catholic Church.

Regards

Humility is knowing who I am and more importantly WHOSE I am. I have been bought with the precious blood of Jesus Christ. It was a payment that I was to make, but was made by Christ in my place. I would ask that you do not hint around your insult of "judging my lack of humility".

You have grossly misunderstand, and purposefuly mis-stated the understanding of God's forgiveness. It is to my shame if I continue in sin, knowing that God has forgiven me. Not for my pleasure to sin all I want. God has forgiven those who claim Christ as their Saviour. God still calls us to repentance. God's forgiveness is not dependant upon my repentance, but my repentance is dependant upon His forgiveness.

Yes, there are those who abuse the teachings of Christ for their own gain - beliving that they can sin all they want, and they are forgiven - they are 'earning' their reward - at it will not be much. It is no different then those who sin on Saturday, seek asbolution on Sunday, and do it again on Monday. Or maybe buy their forgivess first.

 

[tblaine74]

Wow.... so what will "advance our debate" if you do not want to talk about Scriptural concepts?

RR,

Will any arbitrary scriptural concept do? I assumed there was some sort of rational for the things we were writing here. If striving for holiness is the answer to any question posed in this thread, then I have been a fool. How about I just strive for goodness, kindness, righteousness, virtue, and the like, and avoid badness, cruelty, wickedness, vice, and the like. Clear as mud.

 

[francisdesales]

Humility is knowing who I am and more importantly WHOSE I am. I have been bought with the precious blood of Jesus Christ. It was a payment that I was to make, but was made by Christ in my place. I would ask that you do not hint around your insult of "judging my lack of humility".

I said I am not here to judge you. If you took that as in insult, that says enough for me...

Humility is knowing who you are? What sort of New Age garbage is that? Where did you hear that "feel-good" stuff from? So if I am a multi-millionare like Donald Trump, I would be humble knowing that I am an SOB while simulataneously treating others with contempt? Is that what you are trying to push here?

Jesus was humble because He knew He was God???

I think it goes beyond "self-knowledge". As to "whose" you are, that doesn't make one humble either. It can very well lead to arrogance - as I have already said. That is pretty evident when Paul addresses CHRISTIANS who are arrogant in their "knowledge" - knowledge puffs up, love builds up. Knowledge does NOT equal humility - or love - as the Bible clearly tells us.

You have grossly misunderstand, and purposefuly mis-stated the understanding of God's forgiveness. It is to my shame if I continue in sin, knowing that God has forgiven me. Not for my pleasure to sin all I want. God has forgiven those who claim Christ as their Saviour. God still calls us to repentance. God's forgiveness is not dependant upon my repentance, but my repentance is dependant upon His forgiveness.

God only forgives those who ask for forgiveness. End of story. I have no desire to argue about such obvious and fundamental Christian ideas that, quite frankly, are common sense concepts. If you don't understand that a person is not forgiven of sins UNTIL he asks God for forgiveness, then you are not aware of how salvation works. Are you not familiar with the Old Testament? Did not the Jews FIRST call upon God for forgiveness when they strayed, and THEN God forgave them? Which verse have you read where it says men are already forgiven WITHOUT having to declare their faith in Christ or repent of their sins?

Have you ever said the Lord's Prayer? Read it again for the first time.

I have already said I have no desire of speaking about such things. If you have a problem with that, perhaps you should start a new thread and see who else agrees with such New Age stuff. You are way off topic now.

 

[RadicalReformer]

A basic defintion of humility is simply knowing who you are, no more and no less.

Degrading oneself is false humility. Christ showed humility by knowing that He was God, and living as one of us. Do you not think that everyday Christ did not know who He was?

Was Christ arrogant when He said that He was God? Was Christ arrogant when He said that He was THE (ie: only) way? NO. Christ knew exactly who he was.

It would benefit Trump to know who he was - a sinner that needs the saving grace of Christ.

I know who I am - I am a sinner saved by grace. There is no arrogance in proclaiming that which is true.

Once Christ's righteousness has been imputed onto the believer, God forgives the sin. Yes, a person must first seek forgiveness. But after having been made righteous in Christ - the believer needs to seek repentance and reconcillation. God has already forgiven.

It is your daisy approach to Christianity that is unbiblical. God Loves Me, God Doesn't Love Me, He Loves Me, He Loves me Not.

While I might be off-topic, atleast I am not unBiblical.

 

[RadicalReformer]

A-Christian or any follower of Roman Catholicism - is the "deposit of faith" and "treasury of merit" the same thing or do I have two bank accounts that I am not aware of?

Just curious - as I seek to learn about the deposit of faith for our discussion A-Christian, I want to make sure that I am not confussing it with the "treasury of merit".

Thanks in advance for clearing up if they are the same or different.

 

[francisdesales]

It is your daisy approach to Christianity that is unbiblical. God Loves Me, God Doesn't Love Me, He Loves Me, He Loves me Not.

When did I say that? Not only do you misunderstand Scriptures, but you misunderstand what I post. God ALWAYS love us. But it doesn't follow that He forgives us before we sin. That is just plain crazy talk. Forgiveness is freely offered to ALL men who ACCEPT it. God came to save ALL men, or did you miss all of that in the Scriptures?

While I might be off-topic, atleast I am not unBiblical.

So you claim, so you claim... :

And yet, you haven't posted any proof that God forgives us BEFORE we sin...

Maybe you could start another thread telling us all about those Scripture passages that say that...

Thanks in advance.

 

[francisdesales]

A-Christian or any follower of Roman Catholicism - is the "deposit of faith" and "treasury of merit" the same thing or do I have two bank accounts that I am not aware of?

Just curious - as I seek to learn about the deposit of faith for our discussion A-Christian, I want to make sure that I am not confussing it with the "treasury of merit".

Thanks in advance for clearing up if they are the same or different.

Why do you insist on sidetracking this thread? Are you just trolling?

Please read the OP and keep your comments limited to that. If you have legitimate questions on Catholicism, please go to the subform specifically made for that subject.

 

[RadicalReformer]

A-Christian or any follower of Roman Catholicism - is the "deposit of faith" and "treasury of merit" the same thing or do I have two bank accounts that I am not aware of?

Just curious - as I seek to learn about the deposit of faith for our discussion A-Christian, I want to make sure that I am not confussing it with the "treasury of merit".

Thanks in advance for clearing up if they are the same or different.

Why do you insist on sidetracking this thread? Are you just trolling?

Please read the OP and keep your comments limited to that. If you have legitimate questions on Catholicism, please go to the subform specifically made for that subject.

Did not realize that you are a moderator Fran! It was A-Christian who brought up the whole "deposit of faith". I just merely wanted to know if the "deposit of faith" and "treasury of merit" are the same thing. Shhesshhhh... simple yes or no would have been suffice Fran.

If I am not mistaken posters are not allowed to start new topics in the Roman Catholicism sub-forum.

Perhaps you can provide a simple yes or no.

 

[RadicalReformer]

It is your daisy approach to Christianity that is unbiblical. God Loves Me, God Doesn't Love Me, He Loves Me, He Loves me Not.

When did I say that? Not only do you misunderstand Scriptures, but you misunderstand what I post. God ALWAYS love us. But it doesn't follow that He forgives us before we sin. That is just plain crazy talk. Forgiveness is freely offered to ALL men who ACCEPT it. God came to save ALL men, or did you miss all of that in the Scriptures?

While I might be off-topic, atleast I am not unBiblical.

So you claim, so you claim... :

And yet, you haven't posted any proof that God forgives us BEFORE we sin...

Maybe you could start another thread telling us all about those Scripture passages that say that...

Thanks in advance.

Fran - when I say that God has already forgiven my sins, it is because i am speaking as a Born Again Believer. To the unbeliever, God still holds their sins against them - the sin of unbelief.

I hope Fran that you are not preaching some Universal Reconcillation garbage.

 

[Vic C.]

This thread is locked for one week until you all compose yourselves.