th1b.taylor
Member
Then, like all of us, you are a Sinner, Forgiven.hello th1b.taylor, dirtfarmer here
Not affiliated with Holiness movement , nor stating that I have not sinned for X number of years, nor denying any thing in Romans 3.
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Then, like all of us, you are a Sinner, Forgiven.hello th1b.taylor, dirtfarmer here
Not affiliated with Holiness movement , nor stating that I have not sinned for X number of years, nor denying any thing in Romans 3.
I believe you are putting your feet on solid ground. I find that much of what is done, today as medical and psychological is what Jesus called witchcraft.
Romans 7:15-20
15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.
17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.
20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
Shhhh! I'm guilty but don't tell, okay?I refer to myself as a 'sinner' because I'm not perfect. I'm just not perfect.
Example? Just today, I was trying to put something together that wasn't cooperating. Frustrated, I said aloud "This is just stupid." Obviously, after I voiced that, I realized I should have prayed about the matter instead of giving in to the frustration. Yes, I'm human. And that means I'm not perfect, although I do try.
I am sorry there is a veil over your eyes but what you are now asking is the same reasoning used by the Modalists to deny the Trinity. I have provided the scriptures that illustrate the truth and if you choose to believe the truth they illustrate, that is good but if you choose to disregard their teaching, the matter is then between you and God!dirtfarmer here
If we have died in Christ, have been created in him unto good works, and our citizenship is in heaven as a believer, then quote any scripture that states that God sees us as still sinners saved by grace and not saints?
I am sorry there is a veil over your eyes but what you are now asking is the same reasoning used by the Modalists to deny the Trinity. I have provided the scriptures that illustrate the truth and if you choose to believe the truth they illustrate, that is good but if you choose to disregard their teaching, the matter is then between you and God!
I think Bill Taylor is talking about psychology and psychiatry. I've found that a lot of the "professionals" in these fields are decidedly anti-Jesus, big on drugs and making $$$ and controlling people. Jesus, meanwhile, is all about setting us free from sin+bondage.
Hi Dirtfarmer,hello th1b.taylor, dirtfarmer here
Does God hear your prayers?
John 9:31 "Now we know that God heareth not sinners, but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth."
Hebrews 7:26 " For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens:"
Romans 5:8 " But God commendeth his love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
Does God hear your prayers? If you are a sinner, according to John 9:31, God does not hear your prayers?
If we are alive in Christ, then we are separate from sinners. Therefore, we are saints according to God and have been delivered from the kingdom of darkness and have been translated into the kingdom of his dear Son. Colossians 1:13
In Romans 5:8 "we were yet sinners" is past tense. We still are overtaken by faults as a saint because we have not yet been delivered from the presence of sin, but that doesn't make us sinners. When God looks at the believer, he sees the blood of Christ and we as Christ's body covered by that blood, without sin.
I have never denied the Trinity. Don't know what a Modalists is.
Shhhh! I'm guilty but don't tell, okay?
§Count me in Mike.What's it worth to you for us to not rat you out?
You are still lumping Forgiven Sinners with Unforgiven Sinners and there is no scripture for you to use for that. Between us, several have pointed you toward a collection of scriptures that when read in context prove neither you nor anyone in the Holiness Movement are without sin. You might have fooled yourself, just as those in the Holiness Movement have, but if you drive, you will accidentally break a Traffic Law, that is sinfull behavior. If you drive nails you will eventually strike your finger and rage at the hammer and/or yourself, that is sin. You are not without or soon will not be without Current Sin that is in need of repentance. To believe otherwise is to elevate yourself above what God has given us as absolute truth. Except you make a case proving the scriptures wrong, this conversation is over.hello th1b.taylor, dirtfarmer here
Does God hear your prayers?
John 9:31 "Now we know that God heareth not sinners, but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth."
Hebrews 7:26 " For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens:"
Romans 5:8 " But God commendeth his love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
Does God hear your prayers? If you are a sinner, according to John 9:31, God does not hear your prayers?
If we are alive in Christ, then we are separate from sinners. Therefore, we are saints according to God and have been delivered from the kingdom of darkness and have been translated into the kingdom of his dear Son. Colossians 1:13
In Romans 5:8 "we were yet sinners" is past tense. We still are overtaken by faults as a saint because we have not yet been delivered from the presence of sin, but that doesn't make us sinners. When God looks at the believer, he sees the blood of Christ and we as Christ's body covered by that blood, without sin.
I have never denied the Trinity. Don't know what a Modalists is.
Hi Dirtfarmer,
This reminded me that we were speaking about this on a thread and I forgot to answer you. Sorry about that.
You had said that once we were children of God, we could not undo the relationship,
I understand how those who believe as you do always bring up fellowship.
Let me ask you this:
If I believe in Jesus and am saved for many years, but then one day I decide, for whatever reason,
that I no longer want to follow Jesus and thus be a believer, am I still saved?
I no longer believe, I no longer want God in my life. My belief is that, at this point, I lose my salvation since
I am not trusting in the Lord to save me.
Wondering
Hi Dirtfarmerhello wondering, dirtfarmer here
Galatians 2:20 " I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." Is this Saul the Pharisee or Paul the apostle, the new creation in Christ Jesus? We never see Saul the Pharisee ever again after the Damascus road experience, why? Would it have been possible for Saul the Pharisee to begin to live again?
Romans 6:2 " God forbid. How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein." Does anyone other than God have the power of resurrection? In order to have a sinful nature, we were born with it. It was not something acquired after we were born, so there is no scripture that states that we can re-acquire that nature after we are born again.
Think about this: If Christ paid our debt of sin, then the only sin that can consign us to the lake of fire is unbelief. Is there any scripture that states that those that are without Christ are judged by their many sins? Or, are they judged by the amount of light they have rejected?
Hi Dirtfarmer
We could continue until the moderator believes it is inappropriate.
in which case, I would request that it be moved to the Lounge.
I chose the Lounge because I don't want this to turn into a debate,. I'd like to understand better
how you arrive at your conclusion that security is eternal, not so much with bible verses since I'm sure we both know all of them - could we just use our common sense??
When reading both the O.T. and the N.T. I come away with the knowledge that my salvation is dependent on trusting in Jesus to save me since I cannot do it myself. Before Jesus all the people saved by faith in the O.T. were waiting for the resurrection in Abraham's bossom. Luke 16. At His death, all left A.'s B. (or Paradise) and went to heaven.
In our last discussion (to which I never replied - forgot!) you had brought up the concept of never being able to lose the title of son, even in the parent - child relationship.
As you must know, the New Covenant or New Testament is a Last Will and Testament by God Father. It was His last opportunity, given to us, to become children of God. A will becomes effective upon death - thus Jesus had to die, for this reason and to be the atonement for our sins.
So, really, we have nothing to do to be in the New Covenant except to choose to be in it. IF we are in it, we accept Jesus' sacrifice and we are born again from above. John 3.
If I wish to leave my parents, and fight with them, and hurt them, and they decide they can no longer live with me and banish me from my home and write me out of the will - I still am a child of theirs, but I get nothing when they die. So of what value is it to me to be a daughter of theirs?? I get nothing in the end. Just like a person who no longer believes would get nothing at the end of his life.
You bring up the sin of unbelief. This is the ONLY sin that cannot be forgiven. If I no longer believe and have faith, is that not the sin of unbelief? Have I not grieved the Holy Spirit? Mathew 12:31-32
I agree with you that it is highly improbable to leave the love of God once one has known it and also feels the beauty of knowing the Creator, however, I have seen this happen and we must make allowance for it.
So please answer to the question of the New Covenant and the grieving of the Holy Spirit if one leaves the faith he once knew.
Wondering