Bible Study WELCOME TO AN IN DEPTH STUDY OF MATTHEW'S GOSPEL.

[GodsGrace]

Hi
Good Samaritan?
Can't make the connection.
Someone beat up laying on the road, well yes, I do have compassion.
Why would I need to forgive him?
As I stated above, hard to forgive someone that shows no remorse, I let it go and let God have the vengeance.
Self defense is not sinful, imho....

The connection with the good samaritan is simple:
Who is your neighbor? EVERYONE. The whole world is our neighbor.
The good samaritan is used to show that everyone is our neighbor, even people we don't like. The Samaritans were hated by both Galilee and Judah. Jesus was teaching them not to hate the Samaritans.

We're to forgive those who ask for forgiveness and those who don't.
I thought we went though this in earlier posts. This doesn't mean that if someone is trying to break into my home, I should go open the door for them. Jesus said to be gentle as doves and wise as serpents.
Mathew 10:16
God sends us out into the world to preach, okay - but also to live there. I don't think he meant for us to be wise only in preaching but in everything we have to deal with.

Without getting into specifics, I'll just say that one time a neighbor of mine handled a situation with my granddaughter very badly and it really hurt me since I thought we were friends. She never asked forgiveness. Know why? She probably didn't understand what she was doing. Should I forgive her?
Or should I keep the hurt deep in my heart and let it make me become bitter?

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

Amen!
One has to make a stand sometimes, lol.

You and Reba are talking about tough love.
I think all here agree with what both of you are saying.

I think it's different though. You discipline your child when he does wrong because you're trying to teach him something. And it's the right thing to do. Maybe these days it's not done enough??
BUT, you DO forgive your child for doing the wrong action. Don't you? Or do you hold it against him forever??

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

I learn from the natural. Romans 1:19-20
One thing that is in my forth mental digestive area right now - is this discussion. Do not freak - it will seem strange to some.

Penicillin is a harmful drug to some bacteria. It will penetrate tissue and target pockets of infection like no other drug (for specific dental bacteria for instance). If you have a dental infection it is great (no other drug is as effective, but I realize there are some drugs that kind of work).
However
If you are allergic to penicillin you can not reap the benefit of a harmful strong drug.
Thus
Some people think that God does not use discipline to correct anyone. An adverse reaction in these thoughts prevents good from coming out of punishment.
If we are without correction (both the application and acceptance of corrections final work).
Then
Correction does not work for us. You might as well forget root canals and pull the tooth (remove the person from the church). Out of the church the discipline seems to work. The person can be brought back into the fold.

Sometimes you can go into symbolism to learn. Others think symbolism is heresy (adverse reaction).

eddif

Could you explain your last sentence?

W

 

[eddif]

Could you explain your last sentence?

W

This sentence / sentences ?
"Sometimes you can go into symbolism to learn. Others think symbolism is heresy(adverse reaction)"

Some want to make reading a passage either physical or spiritual. If you combine physical with spiritual they react as if you had 14 heads (heresy to them).

No thinking is allowed, but only passages that support their viewpoint.

I love the ox paralled with a preacher. That subject has both spiritual and physical mixed (especially if you consider the ox as a clean animal).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If God answered every prayer of mine in the affirmative my husband would have died years ago..

And so would have Rollo.

 

[eddif]

And so would have Rollo.

And maybe eddif. LOL

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But it appears by your statement that your desire is to first judge whether they are a believer or an unbeliever, and then determine the measure of you forgiveness.

No.
Christ tells us to consider the person who rejects the confrontation of their sin(s) to be an unbeliever. That actually has nothing to do with forgiveness. Whether or not you hold a grudge does.

We are not to justify ourselves, because we justify ourselves by the law: But it is Christ who justifies us by our Faith.

The lawyer in Luke 10:26 is not seeking to somehow make himself righteous by asking Jesus his question about 'who is his neighbor?' He is seeking to show himself wise and righteous by his question. This has nothing to do with trying to be justified by the law as Paul expounds on that in his writings. Nothing.

It seems to me that you are defining an unbeliever as someone who remains in contention with those they have differences with and no desire for peaceful resolution.

Just so we're clear, the differences being spoken of are in the matter of a brother who sins against you. And what Jesus is saying is consider the person as an unbeliever who refuses to acknowledge their sin against you when confronted. And again, this isn't about whether or not you forgive him/her. It's about how you consider them from that point forward. Forgiveness is not equal to reconciliation as some seem to think.

Would you consider an unbeliever according to your definition as a Brother?

In the strictest sense, by definition, absolutely not. In regard to false 'brethren' among us true brethren, yes, I have to, until such time as they expose themselves for what they probably, are.....as when they refuse to acknowledge their sin. And so I forgive them and not hold a grudge against them but I certainly do not extend the open arms of brotherly, born again, fellowship to the 'brother' who refuses to make amends for their sin against me. In fact, even if they really are a believer, I am to shun them (2 Thessalonians 3:14-15 NASB). So for all you unbelievers who like to trample the church thinking we believers have some kind of godly obligation to fall all over ourselves for you, think again--we don't even have that obligation to real believers. That doesn't mean we don't love you. It means you have no part of the church and you're going to be treated as such.

I have observed a great divide between the beliefs of the preterist versus the futurist, with no desire for a peaceful resolution from either party. Therefore, are they both then to be considered as unbelievers? According to your definition it must be so.

According to JESUS, not me, if a brother sins against you and doesn't acknowledge that sin and make amends when confronted with that sin you are to consider them an unbeliever. He's hardly talking about doctrinal differences. He's talking about when someone sins against you....perhaps in a doctrinal discussion. I actually pass judgement all the time in these forums in our discussions. I can tell who has the peace of God in them and who does not. Not by their doctrine, but by how they conduct themselves when there are differences or offenses.

If Jesus had used the word neighbor instead of the word brother, would it change the spirit of the message being conveyed by Jesus?
If your neighbor should trespass against you seven times........If he repent, should you forgive him? Even unto seventy times seven?

Makes no difference. Whether it be a 'brother' in the church, or a neighbor, if they refuse to acknowledge their sin I am to consider them an unbeliever.

 

[eddif]

February 22 2016 Matthew 18:21,22 Lets Talk About Forgiveness.

Matthew 18:21 "Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven."

Before we get into the parable about the land owner, lets nail down forgiveness so that we are confident in what exactly it is according to the Word of God.

I'll start off by asking each one of you of how you approach forgiveness yourself. Are there problems with forgiveness? What are the benefits? What exactly is forgiveness? Can we forgive and forget? These are just some topics of discussion.

Revelation 20:11
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

I tend toward several books of remembrance. The book of life seems to allow some to be saved as though by fire.

Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Torment fire and purifying fire.

Several books and several fires. Can we not know the offense and work to get a person not sinning unto death saved?

eddif

 

[Chopper]

Revelation 20:11
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

I tend toward several books of remembrance. The book of life seems to allow some to be saved as though by fire.

Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I Corinthians 3:15
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Torment fire and purifying fire.

Several books and several fires. Can we not know the offense and work to get a person not sinning unto death saved?

eddif

eddif my friend. I've always thought that the "sin unto death" was a Believer who's sin brought shame upon the Lord that he/she believed in. Finally, the Lord ended that persons life to sin no more. Thus, saved, yet so as by fire.

Your thoughts?

 

[dianegcook]

The connection with the good samaritan is simple:
Who is your neighbor? EVERYONE. The whole world is our neighbor.
The good samaritan is used to show that everyone is our neighbor, even people we don't like. The Samaritans were hated by both Galilee and Judah. Jesus was teaching them not to hate the Samaritans.

We're to forgive those who ask for forgiveness and those who don't.
I thought we went though this in earlier posts. This doesn't mean that if someone is trying to break into my home, I should go open the door for them. Jesus said to be gentle as doves and wise as serpents.
Mathew 10:16
God sends us out into the world to preach, okay - but also to live there. I don't think he meant for us to be wise only in preaching but in everything we have to deal with.

Without getting into specifics, I'll just say that one time a neighbor of mine handled a situation with my granddaughter very badly and it really hurt me since I thought we were friends. She never asked forgiveness. Know why? She probably didn't understand what she was doing. Should I forgive her?
Or should I keep the hurt deep in my heart and let it make me become bitter?

Wondering

Yes, the world is our neighbor, of course..
I look at it as,
I let it go, but I learn from it.
I would be watchful of that person. How do you really know she didn't know what she is doing?

I touch a hot stove and it burns me, I know better not to touch it, I do not have a grudge against the stove.
No bitterness...
Judge them by their fruits, per se.
Isis is also our neighbors, forgive them for what they do?
I know to watch my back, lol
These sucker punchers, knock out games, are our neighbors.
God is the same today, past and future.
Look what He done to Sodom and Gomorrah.
If someone murderers my son, shows remorse, ask for forgiveness, yep.
But he has to face the death penalty, if premeditated....
Deut.19:11-13
Thine eye shall not pity him...

 

[Jethro Bodine]

eddif my friend. I've always thought that the "sin unto death" was a Believer who's sin brought shame upon the Lord that he/she believed in. Finally, the Lord ended that persons life to sin no more. Thus, saved, yet so as by fire.

Your thoughts?

I think it would have to be the sin of apostasy because it's impossible to come back to Christ after being sanctified by his blood but then turning your back on that blood (Hebrews 10:26-29 NASB), thus the reason for not praying for the person who has committed that sin (1 John 5:16 NASB).

 

[dianegcook]

You and Reba are talking about tough love.
I think all here agree with what both of you are saying.

I think it's different though. You discipline your child when he does wrong because you're trying to teach him something. And it's the right thing to do. Maybe these days it's not done enough??
BUT, you DO forgive your child for doing the wrong action. Don't you? Or do you hold it against him forever??

Wondering

Yes, of course forgive them, but they did learn by my correction.
If I just let them do whatever they want, I created a monster, lol.
So, the world is our children.
Don't let nobody get away with anything that needs correction..

 

[dianegcook]

Yes, God loves all, but since His enemies hate Him, they must bear the consequences. God will make Christ's enemies his "footstool" meaning that they will be metaphorically crushed under His feet. Christ is a Rock of Offence, and those who push against that Rock are crushed.

Yep
And Jesus told us, the world will hate us.

 

[Hospes]

If God answered every prayer of mine in the affirmative my husband would have died years ago..

Bad girl! Go to the corner!

 

[reba]

 

[eddif]

eddif my friend. I've always thought that the "sin unto death" was a Believer who's sin brought shame upon the Lord that he/she believed in. Finally, the Lord ended that persons life to sin no more. Thus, saved, yet so as by

eddif my friend. I've always thought that the "sin unto death" was a Believer who's sin brought shame upon the Lord that he/she believed in. Finally, the Lord ended that persons life to sin no more. Thus, saved, yet so as by fire.

Your thoughts?

I'm researching and thinking. The next 5 weeks are going to be full for me. I hope to get it done, but some thoughts take 20 plus years to develop. I hope that is not a cop-out.

eddif

e

 

[Malachi]

eddif my friend. I've always thought that the "sin unto death" was a Believer who's sin brought shame upon the Lord that he/she believed in. Finally, the Lord ended that persons life to sin no more. Thus, saved, yet so as by fire.

This would be the proper interpretation of "the sin unto death". It refers to a believer's sin (or sins) and PREMATURE physical death.

 

[Roro1972]

The connection with the good samaritan is simple:
Who is your neighbor? EVERYONE. The whole world is our neighbor.
The good samaritan is used to show that everyone is our neighbor, even people we don't like. The Samaritans were hated by both Galilee and Judah. Jesus was teaching them not to hate the Samaritans.

We're to forgive those who ask for forgiveness and those who don't.
I thought we went though this in earlier posts. This doesn't mean that if someone is trying to break into my home, I should go open the door for them. Jesus said to be gentle as doves and wise as serpents.
Mathew 10:16
God sends us out into the world to preach, okay - but also to live there. I don't think he meant for us to be wise only in preaching but in everything we have to deal with.

Without getting into specifics, I'll just say that one time a neighbor of mine handled a situation with my granddaughter very badly and it really hurt me since I thought we were friends. She never asked forgiveness. Know why? She probably didn't understand what she was doing. Should I forgive her?
Or should I keep the hurt deep in my heart and let it make me become bitter?

Wondering

You are so right I tried the bitter non forgiveness thing its a miserable way to live. Life is so much better with forgiveness.

 

[GodsGrace]

This sentence / sentences ?
"Sometimes you can go into symbolism to learn. Others think symbolism is heresy(adverse reaction)"

Some want to make reading a passage either physical or spiritual. If you combine physical with spiritual they react as if you had 14 heads (heresy to them).

No thinking is allowed, but only passages that support their viewpoint.

I love the ox paralled with a preacher. That subject has both spiritual and physical mixed (especially if you consider the ox as a clean animal).

Thanks eddif
A passage is physical and scriptural. It's both practical and theological.
Understood and agreed.

W

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This would be the proper interpretation of "the sin unto death". It refers to a believer's sin (or sins) and PREMATURE physical death.

What is the sin, or sins, that demand physical death and which are not to be prayed for?