What did God originally intend Christianity to be?

[JohnD]

God is not finished with the Jews.

But a cursory reading of scripture reveals God intended Christianity to be of the Jews first then of the Gentiles but the Jews (by and large) rejected Christ because their leadership was infiltrated and corrupted.

This is a thread to discuss the implications of this. And what God may eventually intend Christianity to be...

Do you dare participate?

 

[childeye]

God wants men to have no doubts that He sent the Christ, and also that only He can reveal Himself to whom He chooses. The Jewish people are chosen to be the people who would bring forth the Messiah, the True Image of God sent by God. It makes sense that He intended for them to reject him and that the rest of the world would believe upon him. This would eliminate any possibility of someone claiming that this Christ was manufactured by the Jews so that the Jews could say their religion was true. This is just one possible aspect I wished to share.

 

[Sinthesis]

There is no plan B. Things are progressing as God intended, despite our nearsighted murmuring.

 

[JohnD]

There is no plan B. Things are progressing as God intended, despite our nearsighted murmuring.

Friend, I am not trying to provoke an argument. So rather than show this as plan A and plan B I'll call it phase 1 and phase 2 of the same plan:

Galatians 3:24–25 (NASB95)
24Therefore the Law {phase 1} has become our tutor to lead us to Christ {phase 2}, so that we may be justified by faith.
25But now that faith {phase 2} has come, we are no longer under a tutor {phase 1}.

Similarly, God always planned to evangelize the Jews first then the Gentiles. He knew the Jews would reject him because he knows the end from the beginning. But he still went forward with his plan to evangelize the Jews first then the Gentiles. And in the end, the purpose for there even being a Great Tribulation is to produce Jacob's trouble (Jeremiah 30:7) and get the Jews to at long last to cry out to him for salvation.

 

[JohnD]

This thread is intended to open a discussion of opinions and ideas about the present state of the Body Christian. And if this is what God intended Christianity to be. Or is it (at best) what God puts up with, forging ahead with his plans at a much slower pace for the state the Church is in and that of its unwilling participants.

 

[JohnD]

Or is everything proceeding just fine? And the current state of the Church and the so / so commitment of its peoples is all God had / has in mind...

 

[Sinthesis]

Or is everything proceeding just fine? And the current state of the Church and the so / so commitment of its peoples is all God had / has in mind...

Why do you believe your commitment is only so / so?

 

[JohnD]

Why do you believe your commitment is only so / so?

Accuse the other of what you are guilty?

My my my.

How liberal of you.

My original point was about the overall Church. But since you want to make it personal.

 

[childeye]

John D. I think Sinthesis misunderstood your intent with so/so.

 

[Sinthesis]

John D. I think Sinthesis misunderstood your intent with so/so.

Maybe. What is meant by 'so/so'?

 

[Obadiah]

A word of caution to all. This is the Apologetics and Theology forum which among other things requires that Original Posts state a scripture applying to the theological point that is to be discussed and all other posts that oppose or add information are also to contain references to scriptures that back up the information given in the post. Opinions unsubstantiated by scripture are against the rules of this forum and will result in official warnings. Thanks for taking the time to review the forum guidelines before posting.

 

[jasonc]

1) was the promise made to isreal as a whole that the gates of hell shall not prevail?
2) what was the function of isreal and did she ever fulfill that? see Deuteronomy 4:6 for that.

 

[childeye]

Maybe. What is meant by 'so/so'?

The issue is commitment. There are some Christians who are what I would describe as lukewarm or on the fence. These are probably what JohnD is referring to, but JohnD didn't really draw that distinction in his question. I agree the question as formulated is somewhat ambiguous. But I'm confident he did not mean that his commitment is so/so.

 

[Malachi]

Do you dare participate?

That's a good way to challenge assumptions and presumptions. Far too many Christians have been taught to replace Israel with the Church (Replacement Theology). But getting back to your questions, God is defintely not finished with the Jews, and neither is He finished with the Church (Jew and Gentile in one body).

To understand how these two groups tie into God's eternal plans and purposes we must take the entire Bible as a whole, and then arrive at conclusions which are supported by Scripture. While there are numerous Scriptures which can be referred to, God's summation of His dealings with the Church and Israel is found in the Abrahamic Covenant (which was confirmed to both Isaac and Jacob) and Christ is the Key .

1. THE PROMISE OF THE LAND TO ISRAEL (Gen 15:13-21)
13And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; [here "thy seed" is Israel]
14And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.... [deliverance from Egypt under Moses]
18In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: [here "thy seed" is Israel]
19The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

2. THE PROMISE OF MESSIAH AND THE CHURCH (Gen 22:15-18)
15And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. [therefore "Abram" becomes "Abraham"]
Here we have three entities mentioned: (1) Israel (called "thy seed" in verse 17, (2) Christ called "thy seed" in v 18 (Gal 3:16); and (3) the Church (all the nations of the earth). In verse 17 we see redeemed and restored Israel in the Millennium having dominion over all its enemies, while in verse 18 we see Christ as the Savior of the world, bringing the blessings of salvation to all mankind. The Church was kept a "mystery" until after Pentecost.

3. CONFIRMATION OF THE COVENANT TO ISAAC (Gen 26:3-5)
Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
4And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

4. THE PROMISE OF THE LAND CONFIRMED TO JACOB (Gen 35:9-12)
9And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him.
10And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.
11And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
12And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land.

All these promises are yet to be fulfilled in their completeness, and after the Second Coming of Christ they shall be fulfilled. At the same time we should note from the NT that the eternal home of the Church is the New Jerusalem, while the eternal land of redeemed and restored Israel remains on earth with an earthly Jerusalem. It is not "Christianity" that God has in view but Israel and the Church. Bible Christianity is "the Faith" of the Church.

 

[reba]

Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

 

[Sinthesis]

The issue is commitment. There are some Christians who are what I would describe as lukewarm or on the fence. These are probably what JohnD is referring to, but JohnD didn't really draw that distinction in his question. I agree the question as formulated is somewhat ambiguous. But I'm confident he did not mean that his commitment is so/so.

When JohnD mentioned 'the Church' and 'its peoples' I naturally assumed he included himself with them. I know I consider myself within them. Therefore, I wanted to know where he believes his commitment is falling short because I already know my commitment could be greater. I acknowledge the plank in my eye, so I can't in good faith lament all the other slackers holding the church and it's peoples back from what the most righteous among us might insist is God's original intent.

Luk 6:42 - Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out themote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.​

 

[Sinthesis]

There is no plan B. Things are progressing as God intended, despite our nearsighted murmuring.

Dan 2:35 - Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a greatmountain, and filled the whole earth.​

I believe Jesus is the Stone. We the Church, as His Body, are the great mountain, and we are in the process of filling the whole earth.

 

[childeye]

When JohnD mentioned 'the Church' and 'its peoples' I naturally assumed he included himself with them. I know I consider myself within them. Therefore, I wanted to know where he believes his commitment is falling short because I already know my commitment could be greater. I acknowledge the plank in my eye, so I can't in good faith lament all the other slackers holding the church and it's peoples back from what the most righteous among us might insist is God's original intent.

Luk 6:42 - Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out themote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.​

Clever post Sinthesis. I like the your technique of admitting your pride in humility, or is it your humility in admitting pride, or you're humble in acknowledging you have pride, oh whatever. You know what I mean.

 

[LovethroughDove]

John 3:19-21 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

The Christ came into the world to show what the true light looks like. Those who don't want that light will pervert what Christ has really done and said.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

The nations will have a chance to accept this light. The point of Christ, is to become part of the light.............

 

[AmbassadorofChrist]

The body of Christ was never prophesied about in the old testemant.
1 Cor 2:8 - Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

It is God's will for all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth(1 Tim 2:4) and to make all men see the fellowship of the mystery(Eph 3:9)
1 Cor 2:7 - But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Most people believe we will rule and reign here on earth. But our conversation is in heaven(Phillipians 3:20) and we are seated in heavenly places in Christ(Eph 2:6)

I believe we will be reuling and reigning in the heavenly places with Christ, working with our Father in reconciling the heavenly places to himself and we will occupy different positions in the heavenly places i.e.principalities and powers. As Israel will be ruling and reigning with Christ, working with the Father in reconciling the earth unto himself.